Talk:Prisoner (TV series)

Late '90s Prisoner spoof

For inclusion under the "Spoof" section - I'm desperately trying to recall the name / details of a short spoof series of various Australian shows (produced in Aus or New Zealand I *think*) that appeared here in the U.K. in the middle of the night on Channel 4 in the late 1990s. Much of it featured a prison, complete with Wentworth red brick-esque corridors (yet, surreally, the shadow of a large church-like window design), and many PCBH references. I think it also had a lot of nods towards 'The Young Doctors' too. For the life of me I can't recall what it was called; anyone? I have a nagging feeling that Maggie Kirkpatrick made an appearance in one episode. I also seem to recall something to do with Alexi Sayle, with female prisoner(s) thrown in a cell, and 'Crazy' by Patsy Cline playing, but I may be getting confused with a similar unrelated sketch. Anyone? Jay Firestorm (talk) 14:19, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I've seen this. It was part of an Alexei Sayle sketch comedy series, and it featured Jean Marsh -making a woeful mess while struggling to replicate an Australian accent- as a strict Matron. It did seems like a mix of The Young Doctors and Prisoner. Yes Crazy was the theme tune. 124.148.158.232 (talk) 19:51, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Core Cast

Does anyone else feel that the "Core Cast" section is overlong, poorly laid out and somewhat trivial? (It's also not even Wiki friendly on the actor names, and is somewhat POV as to who does and doesn't make the list). There are detailed pages for prisoners, officers and misc. characters that give detailed run-downs (which I am contributing chunks too as I make my way through the DVDs), and the top of the article has main cast run-downs... I don't really feel the Core Cast section adds anything. Thoughts? Jay Firestorm (talk) 02:36, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Some Comments

Well written article but having just read it fresh from start to finish just two comments - It gets a little confusing, especially in the Final Season part with the changes from Joan to Ferguson to The Freak - Can we have come consistency here, presumably with Ferguson winning out as per Wiki guidelines. Also, at the very end there are a couple of mentions of "The Edna Pearson Story" being cut from the DVD releases but no mention in the body about this at all. Why were they cut? What was the story? It would be worth an expansion there. Somebody has already mentioned that there is a missing section the theme tune which is probably the most enduring legacy of Prisoner - Perhaps expand on this too? Lawrie (talk) 16:16, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

The story behind the Edna Pearson deletion. I was Head storyliner at the time and came up with a story about a woman on remand ( Edna) who is charged with trying to murder her husband but is maintaining her innocence. When she accidentally spills the beans that she is actually guilty to one of the inmates ( I think it was Cass...but hey, it's 18 years ago) she then tries to kill her by poisoning her tea with oleander. Although I wasn't consciously influenced, there was a case in Australia at the time of a woman accused of trying to murder her husband in a similar way to our story. What's more...she had the same initials. When the eps were shown here, she took legal action...I think Grundys settled out of court - but the entire story had to be removed for future screenings and overseas screenings. A difficult time as the result was a lot of disjointed storytelling and the loss of a good story and character

Coral Drouyn. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.217.74.70 (talk) 04:25, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Coral Drouyn

It was a ground breaking soap/drama for sure. The woman behind most of the stories was Coral Drouyn. She has always championed 'alternative' rights - including the first gay kiss on tv in Pacific Drive. She has a writers' web site at www.thedramaqueen.net for those interested in the story behind the stories.

I was head storyliner and story editor from 1982 to 86 and was responsible for ALL stories and characters.  Including Marlene, Pixie, Myra, Pippa,.... Pixie's rape - the Freak's gay relationship....Hazel's mercy killing, quarantine, the prison fire...the list is pretty long.I introduced in script the Freak to the show. I wrote over 90 hours and storylined over 300 of what is called "The Golden Age of Prisoner." Since the show was on notice to be cancelled when I was asked to take over and give it 13 more weeks ( it ran six more years) and since it went from being poorly rated to the number one show. People may anonymously disagree ( saying I only worked on Flops) but those are the FACTS are verifiable on Google, IMDB and any other source which lists cast and crew.

Some of the FLOPS I worked on were Blue Heelers and Home and Away, which I was asked to rebuild in 2002 and did so with the creation of Angie Russell - making it the n umber one rating drama in the country all through 2002-2003. I also won the AWG award for best script in 2003 for H&A. Coral Drouyn. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.217.91.98 (talk) 05:07, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Blue Heelers a FLOP?? (or did I misunderstand?!). I thought it became one of Australia's most popular shows? Heck, I even pay ridiculous prices for the DVDs on ebay to be shipped here to the UK! Jay Firestorm (talk) 02:29, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

school screenings!!??

The following claim in regards to the (1985) episodes featuring Nicki Lennox is made of the page:

The episodes in which she was featured were shown at schools throughout Australia to discourage teenagers from turning to crime.

Seems pretty unlikely given Prisoner was rated "Adults Only" in the ratings systems in use at that time. Seems even more unlikely given all the teachers who had been taunted with cries of "Vingar Tits" after this show started! Any references for this bit of trivia? MinorEdit 02:13, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

• It's listed in the On The Inside book by Burke I think. Essexmutant 09:16, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

If that's true (I haven't checked) then it proves nothing as that book is considered a joke amongst Prisoner fans due to the alarmingly high number of glaring errors it contains... characters are described using totally the wrong name, incidents and storylines are ascribed to the wrong character entirely, and basic facts are wrong through the book. I'm glad someone seems to now have removed the above claim. Asa01 03:49, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I can concur on that point - the Burke book is widely regarded as containing many factual errors. (60.225.92.88 23:57, 31 March 2006 (UTC))

Merge proposal (Captain Marvellous)

Is Captain Marvelous a real-life fictitious character.... umm... you know what I mean? (^_^) Does the Captain exist in "real life" comic books, or was he just created for Prisoner:Cell Block H? If the latter, redirect; if he has a separate (fictional) existence, don't. Fourohfour 10:41, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I have to say I'm flabbergasted Captain Marvellous has an entry. It's such a peripheral reference in the series that it's barely worthy of inclusion on the Prisoner page. For some reason I also recall it was actually Captain Courageous - making the entry not only barely relevant, but inaccurate to begin with. Does someone have a copy of the Merle Jones episodes to check? Oh, which means I agree with merge (or even delete) (60.225.92.88 23:57, 31 March 2006 (UTC))

And to answer your question, no Captain Marvellous/Courageous was/is not a real comic book character. It was occasionally referenced because the character in question (Merle Jones) was mentally retarded and read a lot of comic books. When not making little sense, she was usually seen in the background throwing her fists in the air shouting "pow" and "zam". Seriously. (60.225.92.88 00:10, 1 April 2006 (UTC))

Bad Girls is not a Prisoner spin-off

The article contains this reference under spin-offs: In 1999, a new British women's prison drama was created, entitled Bad Girls. As of 2006 it is still in production.

Bad Girls is not a spin-off of Prisoner, it's just another show about a women's prison. Unless someone wants to mount a case to retain it, I might delete it from the article. It has no more significant a connection to prisoner than any other dramatic work set in a women's prison (e.g. Within These Walls). (60.225.92.88 00:02, 1 April 2006 (UTC))

As a fan of both series, there are huge storyline similarities between the two. This may or may not be a sympton of TV drama writing or indeed the women's prison genre as a whole, but watching the first season of both series, there are very close correlations in plot.

Similarities do not make it a spin-off. Amongst TV shows and especially soaps, many are similar to other shows. Asa01 07:27, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the section could be re-worded? Bad Girls certainly did have some PCBH similarities and influences, enough for it to be mentioned in the section (just as Prisoner was originally an Australian take on Within These Walls). Jay Firestorm (talk) 02:31, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Article revamp

I've just rewritten the article to make it a more substantial piece. The character descriptions have been given their own pages and Prisoner now has its own category. Thanks. Ben King 02:50, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

The revamp looks great. I think it meets the criteria for a good article, and I've listed it as such. -- Longhair 08:33, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I love it. It looks great. Keep it up, Ben! How good would it be if it got to be a Featured article? -- Shazza 02:52, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Bold removal

REMOVED: "a more likely antedecendant is the controversial 1970s Australian soap opera Number 96, which had also aired on Network Ten and had dealt frankly with such taboo issues as homosexuality, rape and drug addiction. It was also an outrageously sensationalist show, featuring frequent nudity, murders (at one point the programme wiped out half the cast in a bomb explosion for an end of year cliffhanger) and a character called the “Phantom Knicker Snipper”. "

Prisoner and 96 don't have that much in common. Yes 96 was sensational, and it did influence Australian soaps in the 1970s - like Class of '74, The Box, and The Restless Years which all to varying degrees replicated 96 situations and storylines. 74 and The Box had the sex angle, The Box also had lots of nudity, while The Restless Years had a couple of 96 style murder mysteries and serial killer plotlines. In comparison Prisoner was much less like 96, and had more in common with Aust crime drama series like Cop Shop. Indeed Prisoner began two years after 96 had been axed due to plummetting ratings. Also, 96 never wiped-out half the cast in a bomb blast - only four characters died from a regular cast of over 15 people - and the bomb was not an end-of-year cliffhanger but occurred in early September 1975. 96 had no "Phantom Knicker Snipper", the term "Knicker Snipper" was used in the press but not in the show itself. Asa01 20:10, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

PLEASE NOTE

As the original author of the article revamp, I am removing my content. I do not support Wikipedia due to a disagreement with its draconian policies and no longer wish my original text to be featured on a public site. Please have the courtesy to respect the wishes of the original author. If you wish to expand and rewrite the article, please do so using your own text. Thank you.

I do not support Wikipedia and have now indicated my wishes. As far as I am concerned, Wikipedia is stealing my material. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ben King (talk • contribs)

That's funny. The article revamp material seems to be largely based on the text written by me many years ago on my own website Aussie Soap Archive: detailed Prisoner overview, so funny that the self-proclaimed "original author" now wants it removed. It is not a direct cut and paste of the text, and it has been fully reworded and some new ideas added, but much of the content and the general ideas seem pretty similar to my original web page. Asa01 21:39, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what these "draconian policies" are, but in any case once you have published your work under a particular licence you can't retroactively retract it... it's "out there" under the GFDL. --Dave Beta 11:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Clean-up

This article is a mess. This is what needs doing:

• inline citations need adding.
• the plot/storyline needs to be rewritten to make it more encyclopedic. It is well-written, but the many editorial asides and comments are inappropriate to Wikipedia because they violate WP:NOR.
  • Perhaps we can have several daughte articles for different years, such as As the World Turns.
• I'm unsure, really, that the emphasis on transmission dates is relevant. As a fan, I find it interesting and useful, but I'm not sure if it belongs here.
• Do we need to specify which episodes were on the DVDs?
• There's little about the theme song.

After we've addressed these points, we should submit it to peer review. If people disagree with these points, then we'll go to peer review now. The JPS^{talk to me} 11:53, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Helicopter prison escapes

I would like to list the Marie Winter helicopter escape in the section of Helicopter prison escapes which deals with such incidents that have been portrayed in fiction. However, I am not sure where to find a reference for this other than in this article. I have commented on the escape on the article's talk page and wondered whether someone could add it for me.

Done. The JPS^{talk to me} 21:29, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

1979 Cliffhanger was NOT episode 82

1979 cliffhanger is probably ep 79 and not ep 82. According to Melbourne broadsheet newspaper The Age from November 1979 to January 1980, the schedule is as follows (all 20.30) 72 = Tue 06/11/79, 73 = Wed 07/11, 74 = Tue 13/11, 75 = Wed 14/11, 76 = Tue 20/11, 77 = Wed 21/11, 78 = Tue 27/11, 79 = Wed 28/11 (final ep for year). All other Monday - Fridays after 30/11/79 have News at 20.30 and then a Movie at 21.00. Series resumes with correct details for ep 80 on Tues 22/01/80 20.30, ep 81 Wed 23/01, ep 82 (the previously thought cliffhanger) Tues 29/01 with ep 83 on Wed 30/01. Melbourne 0-10 was the first station to screen the show worldwide so it is impossible that ep 82 is the 1979 cliffhanger if Melbourne did not reach it until late Jan 1980. Any thoughts on this please add here, but I suggest that the table be altered to show when ep 79 was shown as well as ep 82 (terrorist attack). Channel 7's soaps Cop Shop and Skyways both resumed in week starting 21/01/80 too. Channel Nine's Sullvans and Young Drs were not on air unttil Feb due to cricket.

Regional episode numbers

The reason this is being removed is that it is fancruft. I appreciate that some might find it interesting, but only a very small number of people. A fansite is the most appropriate place for this. The colours do not help matters. The JPS^{talk to me} 18:13, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm currently removing not only the data from this page, but all the other many TV show pages on Wikipedia which have this ITV schedule data as well. I'm agreed in that it is extremely unsuitable for this site, no matter how much work has gone into it. BillyH 15:01, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Why is this unsuitable. There are lists here on wikipedia of completely useless information. This information seems very relevant. I watched Cell Block in the 90s and in my area it was taken off in 1999. This info is detailed and shows me the dates when episodes were screened. I spent £600 buying the big boxset from Australia and this info is very useful as I am watching the programs. Why is it "extremely unsuitable for this site" BillyH? Most of the detail on AS THE WORLD TURNS is "fancruft" too and very specific. Why is that allowed to stay?

I think you are taking the proverbial. "Episode numbers at the point of major news events"??? Come on. This is completely trivial. I'm not involved in the other article you mention, but mention of its talk page any material you think is unsuitable. Wikipedia is not a dumping ground. The JPS^{talk to me} 17:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the whole regional info / episode rundown (with very POV "key episodes" list) was a bit too much, but how about listing first and last broadcast dates for each region? I wouldn't mind contributing info from various records I have. Jay Firestorm (talk) 02:34, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Are the records reliable sources? Could they be verified? We need to avoid it looking like a trivial, crufty list. The current prose is OK, but desperately needs references. The JPS^{talk to me} 10:45, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Well personally, I have around a hundred old 1980s TV Times (yeah, weird collecting hobby, no life), so could happily collect at least a wide selection of "first broadcast" dates for the first episode (or whatever regions started on, not all began at episode 1). I'm sure others have reliable records too. Jay Firestorm (talk) 15:32, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Episodes 001 - 016.jpg

Image:Episodes 001 - 016.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 04:34, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

AFD

A related article has been deleted via consensus achieved at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/ITV Local times OZ soaps. Could editors please note the comments that Wikipedia is not a (historic) TV guide. The JPS^{talk to me} 19:52, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

RFC: Is there too much detail about screenings in different ITV regions?

• Information about screenings in different is a primary record. Since Wikipedia is an encyclopedia containing summary information about topics, detailed information such of this falls outside its scope; WP is not a record of TV listings. --Gavin Collins (talk) 15:07, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Centralized TV Episode Discussion

Over the past months, TV episodes have been redirected by (to name a couple) TTN, Eusebeus and others. No centralized discussion has taken place, so I'm asking everyone who has been involved in this issue to voice their opinions here in this centralized spot, be they pro or anti. Discussion is here [1]. Even if you have not, other opinions are needed because this issue is affecting all TV episodes in Wikipedia. --Maniwar (talk) 17:05, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

It was very over-long and rather trivial at one point. Personally I feel the length it currenly is (May 2011) is about right. Jay Firestorm (talk) 15:34, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Some character merges to do

I recently closed the AfD Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joyce Barry that resulted in merging a dozen characters into the appropriate character lists (under see also section). Since I don't know the series, I'd appreciate if this is done by someone familiar with it. --Tikiwont (talk) 19:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

All are redirected now.--Tikiwont (talk) 14:26, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Best story

I'm from Sweden and can agree with that "Prisoner" got a certain cult-status during the years it was shown, despite it was aired in the middle of the night. The peak of the series - as I find it - was the building up episodes to the exploation wich killed Jim Fletchers wife and two kids. It began with a pre-period where Jim presents his old army friend (do not recall his name, but the same actor returns in a new role years later, as half-mad govenor of an other prison) for Meg. The army friend is a bit nice to Meg at the start - but soon he almost reaps her and madly say "nobody gives me the boot". He gets arrested through the help of Jim Fletcher and the story ends there for quite a while. But he returns with revenge on Jim in mind. He also find an other man that dislikes Jim Fletcher - who after a divorce lives at a motel of some kind. A package (with a bomb) is delivered to Jim by the second man, but the (unknowing) motel-portier gives the package to Jims ex-family when they come for a visit and sadly his son opens it in the stairs. Jim survives without getting hurt (and motel portier aswell) but his ex-wife and both his children dies in the exploation. I guess this happens around 1981, but not sure. After those episodes the wrighers seems to have difficulties to variate the show. And After Vere Bennet is substituted whith a copy (but whorse, and criminal) Fergueson it simply gets too long to follow with great interest. I think the wrighter has done a rather good work althow he/she concentrates on the long period after Jim Fletcher and Vera Bennet disappears as guards. I do not think the article needs cleaning, sooner extention. Is it really only exported to Sweden ? (Where I live I can see most danish channels aswell, but the series i unknown in Denmark apart from very few who followed it on swedish TV4, wich was easy to watch at the analogue-TV time. And still is I belive. (Only in most southern Sweden and the Copenhagen area it's possible to watch non-payment channels across the small Øresund sea) /Pontus Eriksson Sweden —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.249.42.14 (talk) 14:59, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Multiple Roles

I created a table for all of the actors that had played multiple roles in this show. For a relatively short lived show (only 7 years and less than 700 episodes) it is highly unusual for so many actors to reappear in completely new roles. The list has been added to many times, but some editors do not agree that is should be included. Can we gauge some feedback here please? I think it's a pertinent contribution to this show's history. TVArchivistUK (talk) 17:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

• This list is unsourced. This is against Wikipedia policy Verifiability.
• The list is trivial. It is fancruft, interesting only fans of the show. Wikipedia is not a scrap book, or dumping ground for all of these crufty lists.
• The subject shows potential if written in prose, with references to real-world context (the culture of Austrian actors, for instance.)
• The article as a whole is of a very low standard. Although the plot section is well-written, unfortunately it has not been authored by anyone experienced in Wikipedia policy and style. We cannot use the low standard of other aspects of the article to justify inclusion of other stuff.
• I suspect that a number of anonymous, or new, users will show up to support this section. Discussions are not votes. please remember to cite Wikipedia policy, style guidelines and precedents in your contribution. The JPS^{talk to me} 18:07, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

On the surface it seems interesting/notable. However since so many programs: The Bill, The Avengers (TV series), Get Smart, Doctor Who - and many others - had multiple repeating actors it is really not all that notable. As in The Avengers page, a better rule is that where an actor comes in playing a key, long-running character that is notable enough to be otherwised mentioned in the article (eg Mother played by Patrick Newell), where they previously guested as someone else, then mention that too. But don't list all instances of all returning actors. Format (talk) 22:14, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I have removed the section and added it to the miscellaneous characters page that already existed, which seems a more appropriate article. But if the debate is that it should be deleted completely, it can be removed from there. TVArchivistUK (talk) 03:12, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Cool. While we're doing some spring cleaning, aren't the top dogs already documented in the 'plot' section? Perhasp this list can be removed as well. The JPS^{talk to me} 09:31, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Er... yes. Something I advocated in my first message to you. Hence my original confusion as to why you were selective about what you wanted to delete and what was allowed to remain. But I'll leave it to you. I've contributed all I can to this article. TVArchivistUK (talk) 19:30, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Someone seems to have put a lot of work into the list of Top Dogs. However it really seems like a cruft list to me. I think it should be deleted. The Top Dog was presented by the series like a formal, official thing (I suspect things are very different in real life prisons), but having a "formal" Top Dog if you will, was part of the show's storylining formula. However the list presented here includes characters who really were just challengers to the role. Given it was a soap opera with twisting storylines, there's always going to be upheaval in the stories: that is part of the formula, so there are always going to be Top Dog challengers. But including people like Franky, and Sharon Gilmour, is pretty midleading because really they did not fulfil the storyline purpose of the Top Dog in the series. Format (talk) 20:26, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Personally, while I can appreciate the idea behind it, I feel it would much better be at home on one of the series's fan-sites; it doesn't seem to really fit the idea of Wikipedia. Jay Firestorm (talk) 15:35, 9 May 2011 (UTC)