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|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Product design article.|
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|WikiProject Industrial design||(Rated Start-class, High-importance)|
- 1 Not a list of schools
- 2 general quality design
- 3 Product Design more advanced then Industrial Design
- 4 Page Improvement
- 5 Merge
- 6 Comparison of product design with industrial design
- 7 Surprised that anyone would argue this
- 8 Digital vs. physical products
- 9 Industrial Designs Many Subset Descriptors
- 10 Let's focus on 'Product Design', not 'Product Designers'
- 11 Links to product design page
- 12 wikid.eu as a source
- 13 Industrial Design as a historically specific practice
Not a list of schools
Apologies if anyone is offended, but I don't see how a list of schools in this article meets wiki policy. --Ronz 16:04, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
general quality design
—would you send information lead the designer as a head lines.how can search a design with high quality
Product Design more advanced then Industrial Design
Product designers are not industrial designers. To say that a product designer incorporates Industrial Design is very questionable.
In a sense one could say that this is designers trying to distance themselves from the disciplines of Architecture and Art. Architects were the first to really establish Industrial/Product design. Until then we had craft mass produced, and aesthetic consideration.
Without aesthetic consideration design has no art. Therefore is not design, as such. In other words design is established from other disciplines (which is a natural progression of professional interest in the interiors of buildings, that is why we have Interior Architects, products and furniture was always a natural progression).
To try to establish Product design as not related to Architecture or Art and above or including Industrial Design seem premature. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zakarykinnaird (talk • contribs) 20:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello I would like to improve the page by adding some information from credible sources. I'm not planning to change the general layout just add a bit more information. I'm doing this for a class project but I would like to really improve the page. If there's any information that I put that seems out of place, I'll understand if it's changed back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pstc njit (talk • contribs) 00:13, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
- +1 for the merge, to avoid the same things being repeated on both pages. Looking at other topics discussed below ("Product Design more advanced then Industrial Design"), it could be worth maintaining a specific section in the merged article to explain the potential slight difference in terms between "product design" and "industrial design".--MarmotteiNoZ 23:37, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Comparison of product design with industrial design
The article states: “Product design is sometimes confused with industrial design, industrial design is concerned with the aspect of that process that brings that sort of artistic form and usability usually associated with craft design to that of mass produced goods.” Pointing at reference no2.
I understand there is a reference but the source it is not necessarily correct. The difference between industrial design and product design is a subject debated frequently on forums across the internet. There are different perspectives depending on the school and country. Also in some countries there is only one title to describe professionals that design products. E.g. In China only professionals with the title "Industrial Designer" exist. In UK both titles are used.
The article also mentions “Product Designers conceptualize and evaluate ideas, making them tangible through products in a more systematic approach. Their role is to combine art, science and technology to create tangible three-dimensional goods” This is also what an industrial designers do.
Again there are numerous perspectives. I will state some found in the internet: Industrial design is an old term which has been slowly replaced by product design. Industrial design concentrates more on science and engineering while product design on aesthetics. Industrial design concentrates more on form while product design on science.
I recommend removing comparison of those 2 professions or mention that there is an ongoing debate and mention some of the perspectives. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Akaraolis (talk • contribs) 12:25, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
Surprised that anyone would argue this
I have a Bachelor of Fine Arts in Industrial Design. I have a colleague that has a Bachelor of Science in Industrial Design. Slightly different but in the end we both still call ourselves product designers. It indicates our specialty within the field of industrial design which may encompass packaging (mostly structural), soft goods, exhibit, interiors, and automotive design in addition to product design. Hope this helps designerx 21:34, 7 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Designerx (talk • contribs)
Digital vs. physical products
The main distinction I would like to make, is that product design can apply to digital products, and Industrial Design cannot.
Examples of digital products could be websites, webservices or mobile phone applications, as well as something farfetched as a TV-show. Some products even need servicedesign as well, for instance a carglass repair company that has their marketingstrategy renewed, could come up with a new type of service that has to be designed through direction different scenarios.
These kind of digital, sometimes abstract, products all need to be designed through concepting, marketing, prototyping etcetera. Typically this would be the work of a product designer, not an industrial designer.
In my opinion, the above is the main difference and therefor the main reason for not merging the two subjects into one.
Industrial Designs Many Subset Descriptors
Depending on the audience, I sometimes use the term 'product design' to describe what I do as an industrial designer. This is not intended to mislead but rather to more quickly inform an individual who may otherwise be confused by the term industrial design.
Like the professions of architecture and engineering, industrial design has evolved to the point where now an industrial designer can choose to be referred to as a specialist within several specific fields or disciplines; furniture design, product design, display design, automotive design, interactive design, and packaging design.
Wikipedia, in my view, should include the term 'product design' as a subset within 'industrial design' since this would lead the user to the most informative description of the history and legacy of the profession.
Let's focus on 'Product Design', not 'Product Designers'
I am a practitioner in the software business, meaning I am primarily an independent operator, but my range of project skills includes 'designing' the solution to the business problem, the logical problem, the implementation problem, and the operation and maintainance problems.
However, I have come to this Product Design wikipedia page many times in order to refresh my understanding of the concepts that are explained so well here.
My goal is usually help myself prepare to explain to venerable professonals in the Software Industry how their roles and contributions and responsibilities fit into the overall forward motion of the businesses they work for.
Helping technologists to understand the extreme scope of Product Design is a very productive way to change their perspective about 'what the product is'.
The discussions on this page make clear that, in the Software Industry, technologists are almost exclusively operating within the Implementation Phase of Product Design.
Even the work that they (and I) call 'software design' is just a sub-phase of the Implementation Phase of Product Design.
So a discussion of Product Design in this page can change their viewpoint about their workproduct, the business software applications they produce, and help them realize that the 'product' is what is delivered to the customer, not what they deliver to the business.
For many of them this is a revelation.
In the same way, I believe the commentary in this dicussion that focuses on the job descriptions or business card titles of various design practitioners misses an absolutely critical point about Product Design.
Product Design is the fundamental description of everything the human race has been able to learn to date about its most important survival skill: COMMERCE.
Which Product came first in mankind's history: Agriculture, Fabrics, Construction (food, clothing, shelter)?
There is, in my mind, no way to artificially subsume this article in any hierarchy of current business categorization or nomenclature.
This article is not a description of an industrial classification, but a vital description of the current theory of what Business and Commerce are and how they work.
Therefore I strongly urge that this significant conceptual topic not be hidden among the thousands of professional classifications that have sprung up around the 'design specialties'.
On the other hand, if you wish to better solve the issues of what I would consider 'trade classifications' among Design professionals, I could recommend no better starting point than the description of the Design Phase of this Product Design wikipedia page.
That description makes clear, in my opinion, that 'design' is the application of technical principles and special knowledge about materials and procedures to the configuration of components that adequately meet what the business believes the customer will purchase in order to meet their needs or desires at an acceptible price.
The association of some (or many) highly acclaimed individuals with the Design Phase in recent and ancient history does imbue the title 'Designer' with a certain cache' that has Marketing value which only the foolish would ignore.
Nonetheless, I propose that Product Design, which is the consideration of how humans engage in Commerce, and the Branding of Designer skillsets using various titles, which is the consideration of how to establish and maintain the 'purity' of a 'brand', are very different topics. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 05:27, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
Links to product design page
Hi I´m a product designer and I would like to post the following link.
wikid.eu as a source
Industrial Design as a historically specific practice
Industrial Design arose during the Industrial Revolution as a way of framing a specific design practice located in manufacturing and its processes. As such it is very much tied to modernist design ideas, and directed towards mass production. Product Design, however, is a much broader term, as it is centred on the production of designed objects. This can incorporate Industrial Design within it, but it needs to be noted that Product Design can be practised in other ways outside the mass production processes e.g. when a product designer works to make a one-off item, or a limited run of items, or when the cultural aspects drive the production of the designed object such as with Critical Design.
Additionally, as noted above under other headlines from design practitioners in these fields, there has traditionally (in the UK at least) been a distinction between an arts-based degree in product design and science-based degrees in product design. Arts-based degrees are normally based in art schools and therefore studied alongside the disciplines of fashion design, graphic design, etc.; they have an emphasis on aesthetic and cultural aspects of the designed object. Science-based degrees are typically based in engineering departments, and have an emphasis on the technological aspects of the designed objects.
Although this division is changing, any accounting for the categories Industrial Design and Product Design needs to take into account the different histories, knowledges and practices of design in these two fields. designjunkie (talk) 22:31, 2 February 2014 (UTC)