Talk:Psychedelic rock

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Good article Psychedelic rock has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
April 2, 2012 Good article nominee Listed
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Mandelbrot animation[edit]

This is an article about psychedelic rock, not psychedelia in general. The Mandelbrot animation is not relevant here as it has not relationship to music. Its last two locations also go against the MOS guideline on sandwiching of text between images (see MOS:IMAGE). The fact is that this article has just about as many images at the text can hold.--SabreBD (talk) 14:44, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Psychedelic drugs[edit]

The lead says "Psychedelic rock ... attempts to replicate and enhance the mind-altering experiences of psychedelic drugs." Are there sources for this? I know that psychedelic drugs and psychedelic rock are closely linked, but given that a number of psychedelic musicians did not take drugs, I wonder how accurate and helpful that closely focused statement is. This is purely anecdotal - I have not researched (came here to do that!) - but I assumed that psychedelic rock/music was the same as psychedelic drugs in that both were impacting on the mind in a way to alter consciousness. Mantras, sense deprivation, and breathing techniques can be psychedelic, but none of these are attempts to recreate drug experiences. I would accept that not all musicians were aiming for true psychedelic music - a number would be just copying what they liked, or felt was popular, and would be linking in with the drug culture rather more than the psychedelic one, and so deliberate drug references would used. It would seem to me that psychedelic rock/music might be a little vaguer and more varied than the lead would suggest. SilkTork ✔Tea time 22:01, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

These are some good points. I think it is a very unmusical and vague way to attempt to define the genre. My opinion is the sentence shouldn't be allowed to keep its position in the article without sources. Toshinoukyouko (talk) 08:10, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
The sources are in the characteristics section. Before you start deleting this definition, please come up with an alternative reliably sourced definition. It is not as easy as it looks.--SabreBD (talk) 09:14, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
If I intended to personally shear off parts of the page I didn't agree with or understand I wouldn't have bothered to come to the talk page. I still think the definition is vague and relies too heavily on personal interpretation after reviewing the sources, however I agree that a different definition would be difficult to source and create, and probably be very wordy. The cases SilkTork mentioned are a minority, and the opinion I hold is most likely a minority as well. Toshinoukyouko (talk) 21:19, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I came to this page to also comment that the use of the term "replicate" came from "straight" journalists who assumed that if they heard weird sounds, then the idea was to create music that would "replicate the experience" for sober people. This idea was just part of the perspective of "straight" journalists trying to understand the counterculture.

Actually, psychedelic music was simply the music created by musicians in altered states. As such, it made sense to listeners in altered states, and just sounded weird to sober people.

No musicians ever thought that having a weird vibrato could replicate an altered state of mind.

Thus, the use of "replicate" throughout this article is just perpetuating a myth.

Anyone who thinks this is not true, should come up with interviews of Psychedelic musicians stating that they were trying to "replicate" - but I don't think those exist. (talk) 19:22, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

I see the definition as a definition of the term (= of that aspect of the music). I think that folks taking issue with that are presuming a further reach that isn't there.....claim of states of musicians, statements of objectives of musicians when they made music. Also don't forget, any music under this moniker also went under several other monikers......acid rock, rock (in the more specific context of that time) hard rock.So a musician would not identify with just one and say that the name defines them and their goals when making the music. North8000 (talk) 22:14, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Merge proposal[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result of the discussion was: articles not merged. There is rough consensus against this proposal. Armbrust The Homunculus 14:39, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

I propose that acid rock be merged into psychedelic rock. I think that the content in the acid rock article can easily be explained in the context of psychedelic rock, and the psychedelic rock article is of a reasonable size that the merging of acid rock will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 22:34, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

  • I think there is a pretty good argument that what was acid rock morphed into heavy metal. I could dig up the sources, but if you take a glance for yourselves I think you would agree. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 01:03, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Merge - As nom; acid rock is not a sub-genre that deserves its own article. Acid rock is psychedelic rock, and the minimal distinction between the two does not justify separate articles for both. After all, what acid rock album is not also psychedelic? Also, not that Wikipedia is a reliable source, but according to the acid rock article: "The term "acid rock" is generally equivalent to psychedelic rock." If they are generally equivalent, then they should be merged into one article. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 22:40, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose. As Allmusic says, "Acid Rock was the heaviest, loudest variation of psychedelic rock." All acid rock was psychedelic; but not all psychedelic rock was acid rock that "relied on distorted guitars, trippy lyrics, and long jams". Likewise, Britannica refers here to - in comparison with psychedelic music more generally - "the darker, more psychotic frenzy of acid rock—characterized by overdriven guitars, amplified feedback, and droning guitar motifs influenced by Eastern music". Also here - "The latter label [acid rock] was generally applied to a pounding, hard-rock variant [of psychedelia] that evolved out of the mid-1960s garage punk movement... Although generally devoid of the studio gimmickry typifying the Beatles school of psychedelia, acid rock provided its own form of mind expansion by means of guitar pyrotechnics." The two terms are not synonymous - the addition of the sentence "The term is generally equivalent to psychedelic rock" to the acid rock article here was unsourced commentary that should really be removed. Both articles are in need of improvement and clarification, but that does not mean that they should be merged. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:16, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose These are somewhat about the terms and term-based genre definitions, as genres inherently are. And for genres, overlap is the norm, not a "problem" I think that both terms / genre names should have articles. North8000 (talk) 14:53, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose. I see both sides of this debate, but on balance I think there is enough reliable secondary material to keep the acid rock article as a sub-genre.--SabreBD (talk) 09:35, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose: In agreement with Ghmyrtle above. As well, it is factual that there were and are other psychedelic drug categories than acid (LSD). Acid rock was music to experience while on an acid trip. Moreover, this article 'Psychedelic rock' is a Good Article. Why merge a not-so-good article into it? Psychedelic music exists as an article. Why not put Acid rock there if it needs to be merged and no longer stand alone? Fylbecatulous talk 00:22, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Merge: if there really is a distinction, Acid Rock is a sub genre or at least an out growth of psychedelic rock. Ken Kesey and Jerry Garcia would agree with me ;) Elmmapleoakpine (talk) 00:35, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose Unfortunately the original meaning and popularity of the term "acid rock" has been largely forgotten as has the term itself. If you go to Google Archive from the late 60's into the early '70s you will see hundreds of articles with the term. Why? Because at the time it was used more often then psychedelic rock. If you took a trip(pun not intended) back to 1967-1971 in the USA and asked people what acid rock is most people would know and have a strong opinion about it. To the "mainstream" world it was a catch all term for any loud ear splitting rock music. The connections to LSD, the counterculture, were very important contexts but not what defined it. So the solution is to improve the acid rock article to note it's catch all meaning and popularity at that time, not to merge it.Edkollin (talk) 03:37, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Surf Rock - Wasn't it a vital inspiration to psychedelic rock?[edit]

I would argue that surf music and surf rock is one of the most important stylistic origins to psychedelic rock. The surf rock was probably the first genre where several different kinds of folk music, such as Middle Eastern, Arabic, Mexican and Hawaiian was incorporated into rock music, which arguably inspired the psychedelic rock music very much. Also I've heared some psychedelic musicians who say they were inspired by surf rock, in particular Dick Dale (who made a popular surf rock version of the Greek/Middle Eastern folk song Misirlou)

Am I right about this? I would have put surf music second to rock in the list of stylistic origins, in front of blues rock and jazz. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WackoPsyco69orsomething (talkcontribs) 21:08, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Only if you have reliable sources that clearly indicate that.--SabreBD (talk) 21:19, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
Yes, it was.Dogru144 (talk) 11:43, 31 July 2014 (UTC) as a source[edit]

I added the edit containing The Joker (Iran, early 1970s) to the International section. This adds to the article substantively. There were Asian bands that performed in the psychedelic style. Yet, User:Sabrebd removed the material, arguing that Lastfm was an illegitimate source. Can we get this mediated? This was the text: In Iran the Jokers were a pioneering psychedelic band, drawing influence from Cream and the MC5. These were the references I gave:

Dogru144 (talk) 11:43, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

There is a Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard.--SabreBD (talk) 13:50, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Sources (which are limited) indicate that the band did not have a record label, were short-lived and little known, and their only album was recorded on tape in a garage in 1972 but not released until 2011. It was not released in Iran, but by the small Western label Fading Sunshine/Strawberry Rain with limited distribution. In the circumstances it is difficult to see how the band could have been pioneering.[1], [2], [3], [4]. When entering material on Wikipedia we need reliable sources, and we need editors who say what those sources say rather than add WP:Original research/subjective opinion in the form of phrasing such as "pioneering". SilkTork ✔Tea time 03:24, 1 August 2014 (UTC)