Talk:Puerto Rican people

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Huge Mistake[edit]

This article says there are 3.9m Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico, when this is the population of the island, and not everyone in the island is Puerto Rican. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.23.253.222 (talkcontribs) 10 June 2007‎

Amerindian influence[edit]

Anyone who goes to Puerto Rico can see that the Taino/Amerindian (Native American)presence lives. Lets not be so careless in such an important aspect of our ancestral history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.112.103.196 (talkcontribs) 27 November 2006‎

DNA citations[edit]

Hi guys, there are not many references. This peer-reviewed article deals with the dna issue.

Martinez-Cruzado, Juan C.; Gladys Toro-Labrador, Jorge Viera-Vera, Michelle Y. Rivera-Vega, et al. (2005). Reconstructing the population history of Puerto Rico by means of mtDNA phylogeographic analysis. American Journal of Physical Anthropology. pp. pp. 131–155. doi:10.1002/ajpa.20108.  -- Luis — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dizpater (talkcontribs) 3 January 2008‎

Update Puerto Rican population in the USVI[edit]

According to this, there are 10,981 Puerto Ricans in the US Virgin islands, as of 2010 http://stthomassource.com/content/news/local-news/2013/02/05/us-census-shows-vi-aging-growing-more-hispanic Update it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.194.239.174 (talk) 22:22, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Puerto Rican citizenship issues[edit]

Per WP:OR, I am reverting edits to the article by Senorcanadiense. He is arguing that a Puerto Rican is a person with a certificate of Puerto Rican citizenship. (Apparently he is not aware of the article Puerto Rican citizenship.) He is also arguing that a Puerto Rican is a person who is a citizen of Puerto Rico, but presents no citations to support that. As such, he is additionally in violation of WP:RS and WP:V. In his edit summary HERE he further states that "Citizenship determines nationality. Puerto Rican citizenship has been proven to exist and determines nationality. People born in Puerto Rico and outside of Puerto Rico with one parent born in Puerto Rico are Puerto Rican under the law" which reinforces the fact that he is pushing his own WP:POV. Mercy11 (talk) 13:25, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

I am fully aware of the article on Puerto Rican citizenship, however this article is misleading. The implication is that only a person born in Puerto Rico is Puerto Rican. This is simply not the case. The Puerto Rican government officially recognizes Puerto Ricans through Puerto Rican citizenship, which is also how every country in the world recognizes their people. The government therefore acknowledges any person born in Puerto Rico and born outside of Puerto Rico in the first generation to be Puerto Rican citizens, and thus Puerto Ricans (with Puerto Rican nationality). It is inaccurate to state that a Puerto Rican is simply someone born in Puerto Rico when the government also recognizes those born outside of Puerto Rico in the first generation to also be Puerto Rican. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Senorcanadiense (talkcontribs) 13:57, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
The Government of Puerto Rico, in Law 132 of November 17, 1997, recognizes any United States citizen who lives in Puerto Rico as a "citizen of Puerto Rico", which is a domiciliary citizenship. The text states: "Toda persona que posea la nacionalidad y sea ciudadano de los Estados Unidos y residente dentro de la jurisdicción del territorio de Puerto Rico será ciudadano de Puerto Rico.", just as a PRican who moves to Florida or New York instantly becomes a citizen of Florida or a citizen of New York and acquires voting and other rights. From a strictly legal standpoint, birth or parentage is not an issue, only whether you are a US citizen or not and reside in PR.Pr4ever (talk) 05:36, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
"Misleading" is an opinion, not a fact. In Wikipedia what counts is following policies and one of them, WP:RS, deals with facts. The edits made have no RS, as such they constitute a violation of WP:OR. Including RSs, shows that edits have support beyond an editor's claims. This is not the case here so far. Mercy11 (talk) 19:21, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
Per WP:OR, we are not allowed to put our own "stuff" into Wikipedia. If someone finds a citation for "''Citizenship determines nationality", then fine, it can go in. Pr4ever, for example, found a citation that says "Toda persona que posea la nacionalidad y sea ciudadano de los Estados Unidos y residente dentro de la jurisdicción del territorio de Puerto Rico será ciudadano de Puerto Rico", so fine, that goes in. But unless we can find a citation for stuff like "just as a PRican who moves to Florida or New York instantly becomes a citizen of Florida or a citizen of New York and acquires voting and other rights" we cannot put that stuff in, per WP:SYN.
IAE, let's not lose track of the issue here. My objection is to the fact that Senorcanadiense has attempted (knowingly or not) to make Puerto Rican citizenship as the determining factor to being a "Puerto Rican" ("''Citizenship determines nationality") and that just isn't so. A U.S. citizen that lives in Alaska and who is an Anglo-Saxon, from Anglo-Saxon parents and Anglo-Saxon grandparents, etc., does not become a Puerto Rican simply by moving to sunny Puerto Rico. What makes you a member of the "Puerto Rican people" group has nothing to do with where you reside but with whether or not your parent/s were born in Puerto Rico, or if not born there, with whether the person was brought up with a Puerto Rican culture (which occurs when at least 1 parent was born there). So Rosello's law might extend Puerto Rican citizenship to an Anglo from Alaska, but it does not make such Anglo part of the Puerto Rican people. (The reverse of this is that a Puerto Rican doesn't become an American simply by moving to the States. If that was the case, there would be no Puerto Ricans in the US!) Only Puerto Ricans, as defined in the lede of this article, can be part of the group called "Puerto Rican people". While it does not hurt to mention, in this article, that there exists a Puerto Rican citizenship and a certificate to that effect, it does interfere with truthful encyclopedic reporting to try to make the citizenship issue the center stage of the article. Such center staging belongs at Puerto Rican citizenship article, not here. Mercy11 (talk) 15:24, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to the see the official documents because from what I've read a Puerto Rican citizen is a person who meets one of the following criteria: person born in Puerto Rico; person born outside of Puerto Rico with at least one parent born in Puerto Rico; or a person who holds US citizenship and resides in Puerto Rico for a minimum of one year. Therefore, it is not merely a residential citizenship because any US citizen moving to Puerto Rico is not automatically a Puerto Rican citizen. Furthermore, no US state recognizes a person as a citizen of that state through lineage. These are laws that are standard forms of nationality law by other countries. Moreover, there are additional benefits to having Puerto Rican citizenship for natural-born Puerto Rican citizens (e.g. person born in Puerto Rico or a person born outside of Puerto Rico with one parent born in Puerto Rico). Those people are considered to be Iberian-American nationals, which Spain has allowed only those Puerto Rican citizens (and not Puerto Rican citizens who acquired citizenship based on residency for one year) to have the benefit of applying for Spanish citizenship after only two years of legal residency and also able to maintain their natural born citizenships (which would not be the case for Puerto Rican citizens who acquired citizenship through one year residency since they would still have to meet the 10 year legal residency requirment and also renounce prior citizenships).

Also, in the official Government of Puerto Rico citizenship application, it clearly states that those people that may receive citizenship certificates are people who were born in Puerto Rico, were born outside of Puerto Rico to a parent that was born in Puerto Rico, or an American citizen with ONE YEAR OF RESIDENCY. It is not the same as state citizenship because simple residency does not mean you're a citizen and there are special benefits for natural-born citizens that are recognized by a foreign country (Spain), which do not exist for local states.

Also, all Puerto Ricans are US citizens, and therefore Americans (with U.S. nationality) because upon birth U.S. law officially recognizes this to be the case. The lead sentence is problematic because it states that a Puerto Rican is someone born in Puerto Rico when there are many Puerto Ricans not born in Puerto Rico who are also Puerto Rican. Moreover, citizenship is one way to define who a group of people are. Under the law, people with citizenship are considered to possess that country's nationality. Legally, they cannot be prevented from being included in that group since the government recognizes them as people who maintain that nationality. Your argument is flawed because then for other countries, such as the United States, since you would not include American citizens who relocated to America and gained citizenship through naturalization simply because they are not American-born or ethnically American. Yet those people under the law are just as American as natural-born Americans.

Therefore, it might make more sense to change the lead sentence to be more broad and maybe include a more clear explanation of different views of how people may be considered Puerto Rican through ethnicity, citizenship, cultural traditions, or even self-identification. This is not a personal argument, but the article is misleading and could use a clearer explanation of the various ways to define who is a Puerto Rican. Again, the lead statement seems to indicate a bias, in that, it states that Puerto Ricans are people born in Puerto Rico, when there are many people considered to be Puerto Rican and who consider themselves to be Puerto Rican through ethnicity, citizenship, and even through self-identification.

Official applications that specifically states the requirements for approval of citizenship (mere residency is not one of them) http://www.pr.gov/Attachments/pdf/023%20-%20solicitud%20de%20certificado%20de%20ciudadan%C3%ADa%20puertorrique%C3%B1a.pdf

Article about a legitimate benefit of the citizenship that is recognized by a foreign country (Spain). http://aldia.microjuris.com/2013/08/30/la-eficacia-y-alcance-del-certificado-de-ciudadania-puertorriquena/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Senorcanadiense (talkcontribs) 19:13, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Again, per WP:WEIGHT, this stuff doesn't belong here. It belongs in Puerto Rican citizenship. Bring it up there. Mercy11 (talk) 02:30, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
I am removing the claim that you continue to make. First, it failed verification - what you are claiming is not in he source you are citing. Nowhere in that Certificado de Ciudadania Puertorriqueña does it say that a Puerto Rican is someone who has that certificate. It doesn't says that a Puerto Rican is someone who is a citizen of Puerto Rico (the claim you continue to make). I hope I have made this clear if it hasn't been so far. I suggest you stop making that edits you have been making and take a look at WP:BURDEN. You are violating the WP:OR policy. Regards, Mercy11 (talk) 02:41, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

as of 2010 census, there is now over 10,000 PRs in the USVI. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.194.239.162 (talk) 14:21, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Update[edit]

There are 10,981 Puerto Ricans in the US Virgin Islands according to the 2010 US Census, and 4,416 Puerto Ricans in Dominican Republic according to the 2012 Dominican Census http://stthomassource.com/content/news/local-news/2013/02/05/us-census-shows-vi-aging-growing-more-hispanic http://www.diariolibre.com/noticias/2013/05/01/i381577_mas-medio-millon-inmigrantes-residen-pais.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.194.239.162 (talk) 02:33, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

There are 10,981 Puerto Ricans in the US Virgin Islands according to the 2010 US Census, and 4,416 Puerto Ricans in Dominican Republic according to the 2012 Dominican Census. http://stthomassource.com/content/news/local-news/2013/02/05/us-census-shows-vi-aging-growing-more-hispanic http://www.diariolibre.com/noticias/2013/05/01/i381577_mas-medio-millon-inmigrantes-residen-pais.html 68.194.239.162 (talk) 21:16, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Partly done: I updated the information for the Virgin Islands, but your source for the Dominican republic didn't load for me. Please re-open the request if you have another source. Thanks, Celestra (talk)

http://www.diariolibre.com/noticias/2013/05/01/i381577_mas-medio-millon-inmigrantes-residen-pais.html This is the link 4416 as of 2012 DR census. Hopefully, you can read spanish. And the number for the US Virgin Islands, is as of 2010 US census. Read it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.194.239.162 (talk) 23:09, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Also there are now 4.9 million PRs in the US, as of 2012 estimates. http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.194.239.162 (talk) 23:14, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

I can read Spanish well enough to verify the number. I can't make the change right now, but I re-opened the request so that it doesn't get lost and I will make the Dominicam Republic change if no one else has by tomorrow. The factfinder2.census.gov link doesn't work, though. I think it depends on some cookie they left on your browser. Regards, Celestra (talk) 01:08, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
Done Done with the original request. If you can provide a better link to a source, please open a new request. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 17:38, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Blacks[edit]

Under the "Blacks" section there is a link that says:

Can someone change it to:

"Black history in Puerto Rico" redirects to "African immigration to Puerto Rico". 50.48.33.121 (talk) 09:22, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Done{{U|Technical 13}} (tec) 15:01, 18 February 2014 (UTC)