Talk:Pushing hands

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The external links don't directly address the topic of pushing hands. I am tempted to remove them all.--Sonjaaa 10:36, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)

They are links to international schools where readers can learn how to (or at least get more information about) push hands. Fire Star 14:08, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The external link towards Chen style.com is broken. Paul Jonas (talk) 16:38, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Sources[edit]

My primary source is Wu Kung-tsao's (吳公藻, 1902-1983) book Wu Chia T'ai Chi Ch'uan (吳家太極拳), known by English speakers as The Gold Book because of the colour of its cover, published in Hong Kong, 1980, which is itself a commentary on much older hand-written documents that it partially reproduces in photographic plates. Secondary sources include Yang Pan-hou's, Wu Yu-hsiang's, Li I-yu's, Wu Chien-ch'uan's and Yang Zhenduo's writings and, to contextualise them, twenty years of oral teaching on the subject from various members of the Wu family. Fire Star 14:01, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
"Twenty years of oral teaching" hardly passes the wikipedia criteria of verifiability now does it Firestar??!? And what about "No original research" How about some proper inline citations?
I am tempted to re-write this entire article as it seems to me to be entirely based on original research and self-published sources. Chuangzu (talk) 12:48, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Much of this could use "Taijiquan, Classical Yang Style" by Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming as a reference. I do not totally understand how to edit in references though, so someone else may need to add it as a source. 67.166.78.58 (talk) 15:50, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Pictures[edit]

I think this article needs more pictures. Possibly an individual pic for each of the methods (peng, lu, ji, an etc). any thoughts? VanTucky 02:33, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

It would be nice to get public domain pictures from the old masters demonstrating such, so that it would be unequivocal. Videos would be better, but much less likely. The picture that we have is from a series of 6 old photos that show Wu Chien-ch'uan doing Ta Lu applications. From the form, the particular picture could fit Wu style Single Whip Dān Biān 單 鞭, Separate Foot Fēn Jiǎo 分 腳, Snake Creeps Down Shé Shēn Xià Shì 蛇 身 下 勢 or Separate Wild Horse's Mane Liáng Mǎ Fēn Zōng 野 馬 分 鬃. He could be doing Lu or Ts'ai with his right hand, P'eng with his left forearm, or Lieh with both arms to his right. It is hard to tell from a still photo which direction he'll choose to go next. If we were to take pictures or vids of ourselves, that could infringe on WP:Original research. --Fire Star 火星 19:55, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Not sure if I understand you..do you mean that you think the current pic could be any one of those application? or that you have public domain pics of those? If you mean the first, then a app from any form is usually a combination of energies. To "Part the Horse's Mane" requires that you use tsai to hold the hand and lieh to spilt them. But it looks to me that he's doing Liang Ma Fen Zong. OF course, to include a few pics that primarily represent one energy or another is easy. Ji for instance, or Kao, use pretty much only that. Though all include necessary peng. VanTucky 20:19, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

The current pic could be from any of those forms I mentioned (from Wu style). I'd say it best fits either the beginning of Wild Horse or one possible end result of Snake Creeps Down. Those you could get without hooking the hand or repositioning the lead foot. What we'd need to know to say for sure which of the 8 gates he actually is using, for the right hand for example, is what direction he went right after the photo was taken. If down, it is Ts'ai, if outward in a circular "sidewise p'eng" motion the same position could be the start of Lu, etc. Unfortunately the pics I have are all ambiguous like that. I know Yang Ch'eng-fu did some 8 gate specific photos, that he labelled, that could work for us, but I don't have good copies of them myself - just tiny, blurry magazine photos of them. I've got some videos of Wu Ta-hsin demoing some power generations with one of his nephews that would be perfect, but unfortunately they are copyrighted. :-( --Fire Star 火星 21:24, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

well, I'm sure we can find the Yang Chengfu ones somewhere on the net, or maybe the ones of Cheng Man-Ching. VanTucky 21:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure why my correction of Wade-Giles was deleted. You either write correct Wade-Giles, or you don't. Sure, it's common to write Tai-Chi Chuan, but the correct spelling in WG is T'ai-Chi Ch'üan and the spelling was almost correct and therefore I corrected it. I think you should either use the westernized tai-chi chuan (and hsing-i chuan) or do the whole thing correctly. --Øystein 08:47, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

The photo in this article of the two hands doing "push-hands" is atrocious. What would someone who had never seen push-hands before think of push-hands after seeing that photo? If anyone has a better photo please offer it. In fact it would be better to take that photo away in the mean time because it is doing more damage than good. There are historical photos we could insert as well. --