Talk:Pygmy marmoset

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Former good article nominee Pygmy marmoset was a Natural sciences good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
January 10, 2013 Good article nominee Not listed
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Capture[edit]

I am a student editing this article for a class I am taking. The GA reviewers wanted some information on whether or not pygmy marmosets could be kept as pets and whether they existed at zoos. I added a couple sentences on this topic, but the information I added was not from scientific papers but from Times Magazine and the Sandiego Zoo website.

Should this still be included since the reviewers asked for it?

Claws[edit]

This article states that claws are a unique feature of the pygmy marmoset. I should first mention that the claws of the pygmy marmoset are secondarily adapted from the primitive nail condition of all primates, therefore, these claw-like nails are actually uniquely derived features significantly different from claws. Second, claw-like nails are not unique to just the pygmy marmoset. Claw-like nails are a unifying feature of the family Callitrichidae. This includes the tamarins (14+ species), marmosets (22+ species), and Callimico (1 species). It should also be mentioned that the genus Phaner exhibits a claw-like nail adaptation. --96.248.171.56 (talk) 00:08, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Reworded. Rlendog (talk) 03:16, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

This article seems to have a number of uncited statements relating to care of pet marmosets. Should these be removed? Mattyjim72 (talk) 16:45, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Trivia[edit]

About that "cultural reference"... seriously? This is needed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.235.46 (talk) 22:54, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I've removed the section. - UtherSRG (talk) 23:04, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Taxonomy[edit]

WolfmanSF, I am very appreciative of your edits to this article-- it's made it much better. However, in a recent edit of yours, you stated that, "Some authorities" believe the species belongs in other genera. Could you please make this more specific? I would have just added the "[Who?]" in superscript but I couldn't figure out how, so could you also please inform me of how to do so?

Thanks!

GregorMcGee (talk) 00:30, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your constructive contributions also. According to MSW3, McKenna and Bell (1997) recognized Cebuella as a full genus. To add the [who?], just add {{who}}. WolfmanSF (talk) 01:09, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Thoughts for expanding a Behavior section[edit]

The pygmy marmoset article is still a start-class piece and needs to work on putting together a cohesive, overarching behavior section. This would combine diet and social behavior, but also include reproduction and communication sections. The social behavior section has a good start, mentioning the types of groups that pygmy marmosets live in, and how groups raise children together. Much of these topics can be expanded on. The cooperative breeding system needs explication, and should discuss altruism by the non-breeding females in the group. Besides cooperation in raising the breeding female’s kin, there is no mention what happens to the offspring when they are old enough to leave the group.. Additionally, the article indicates that breeding females always give birth to twins, but there is no mention of the reasons why this happens or its ecological significance. It is also unclear whether both males are breeders in a two-male group. All of this information could be added to reproduction and social behavior sections. The current social behavior section mentions alarm calls in pygmy marmoset groups, but should also indicate what this communication is used for. A communication section can be expansive, since the article’s mentions the use of “chemical, vocal, and physical types of communication.” Finally, the social behavior section should mention how group behavior increases pygmy marmoset fitness, and what other forms of altruism (aside from alarm calls and cooperative breeding) groups display within themselves. Mentioning how groups interact with one another is also important: are they aggressive, passive, etc.? Nsavalia23 4:15, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

This all sounds reasonable, and would be a worthwhile effort, particularly in view of the number of page views the article attracts. WolfmanSF (talk) 21:59, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
I have updated the behavior section to include communication and social systems. I will continue to expand/ work on the Behavior section in the coming weeks. E.middlebrook (talk) 02:00, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

amazing picture[edit]

Amazing picture of pygmy marmoset babies

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=428659403815707&set=a.465258143489166.127227.427481527266828&type=1&theater — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skysong263 (talkcontribs) 04:01, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Peer Review[edit]

E.middlebrook, great job on the additions to the Communication and Social Systems section! I only made a few minor grammar/ wording changes for better flow. I also bolded the first mention of "J-calls," for clarity, because it is brought up a couple times in the following paragraphs. It is interesting that Pygmy Marmosets always have twins. I wonder what the implications are for sibling rivalry and parent-offspring conflict? Perhaps you can expand on that in the future! Ihyuan (talk) 03:03, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi Emily, I just want to say that you've added a lot of great and interesting information to the Pygmy marmoset. I've already learned so much! I didn't notice anything wrong with how you formatted what you added. I did change a few of your sentences to better the flow. Some of the sentences sounded awkward, and I tidied them up. For example, the sentence "Pygmy marmosets change the characteristics of their calls when their social environment is changed such as when it is paired with another individual" doesn't really need the "such as when it is paired with another individual." I added links to the word polyandry and fixed a couple typos, such as "females's." Just a few thoughts--what are the exact modifications to the structure of a call when the social environment is changed? Does their pitch get higher, or trill at a slower rate? Also, what distinguishes the novel calls after pairing from calls prior to pairing? Great work! Alexliu818 (talk) 03:42, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

I changed a sentence from “since there was an increase” to “experiments show an increase” because it was not quite clear what the sentence was referring to. I also added some hyperlinks. As the third reviewer, I feel as though the article is pretty well written and cannot fine more changes. Good job! Zhangt2413 (talk) 04:29, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Pygmy marmoset/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Cwmhiraeth (talk · contribs) 14:37, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

I plan to review this article and hope to post further comments here when the initial problems are addressed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 14:37, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Before I go through the article in detail there are some things you could attend to.
  • In the Behavior section there is a tag "citation needed". This will need dealing with.
  • The lead should be a summary of what is contained in the rest of the article and should not introduce information not mentioned elsewhere. Nor does it usually have references because the facts mentioned in the lead should be referenced when they occur in the body of the article. At the moment the lead is not an adequate summary of the contents of the article.
  • At the moment some paragraphs have no references. There should be at least one per paragraph and more when information comes from multiple sources. See here for guidance on writing references. "Wikipedia's Verifiability policy requires inline citations for any material challenged or likely to be challenged, and for all quotations, anywhere in article space. However, editors are advised to provide citations for all material added to Wikipedia." The references in the article at the moment are well formatted and you should keep to the same style. Reference 6 is a bare url and needs attention.
  • The description section is inadequate. At the moment it is limited to size and weight data.

If you need any help ask here or on my talk page. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 14:37, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

At present, every paragraph in fact has at least one citation. WolfmanSF (talk) 18:28, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Ref. 6 is now wikified. WolfmanSF (talk)
Maybe I was a bit harsh! Most of the article is well referenced but the Behavior and Physical description sections need further referencing. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:23, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
The "citation needed" has been eliminated. WolfmanSF (talk) 04:40, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

I have updated the lead of the article so that there are no references and added a habitat section so that all the information in the lead is contained within the article. Are there any other things that need to be done before it can be reviewed for good article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by E.middlebrook (talkcontribs) 22:43, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

The article could use a section on conservation. LittleJerry (talk) 02:19, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Review by Jack[edit]

The article has improved a lot, and it's great to see continued interest after the Washington University course has finished. Some quick points: be careful to check your work once you've written it, I've seen a few missed spaces after punctuation, or extra spaces before references; there must be a Conservation section to pass the GAN (per WP:PRIM; the lead needs expanding; there needs to be most consistency in the references, some have full author names while others have initials, some links need to changed to the pdf rather than the overview page (Jackson2011), and you generally don't need to wikilink the journal titles. Okay, I shall now begin! Jack (talk) 10:26, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Lead
  • Doesn't adequately summarise the article, e.g. no information on morphology, behaviour, and very little on ecology. This is often cited as the smallest primate in the world, tell the readers! If it isn't (Madame Berthe's mouse lemur is), then let them know it was thought to be the smallest, until the discovery of a smaller species.
  • dwarf monkey Is the species really called this? I can find no reference to it in Google Scholar, nor MSW3, nor IUCN.
  • but also can be found in secondary forest and moderately disturbed forest. Not mentioned in body.
  • Pygmy marmosets live 11-12 years in the wild, but in zoos, they live into their early twenties. Not mentioned or referenced in the body.
Evolution and taxonomy
  • 1990's No apostrophe.
  • no longer paraphyletic. [3] Space before reference.
Physical description
  • I like sections to be self contained, so rather than starting It is one..., you could begin The pygmy marmoset is one... However, I don't think this is necessary for GA.
  • No mention in this section of fur colour, claws (instead of nails like most primates), and adaptations in teeth morphology to allow for exudate feeding.
  • its body length ranging from 14 to 16 centimetres (5.5 to 6.3 in) (excluding the 15-to-20-centimetre (5.9 to 7.9 in) tail) The source says: "Adults are about five inches (13 cm) long with an eight-inch (20 cm) tail". There should be a better source than a zoo website for this information.
  • Males weigh around 140 grams (4.9 oz), and females only 120 grams (4.2 oz). No reference, not good because infact females are heavier than males.
  • Nicknames for this monkey often refer to its diminutiveness, for example: mono de bolsillo ("pocket monkey"), leoncito ("little lion"). No reference.
  • The pygmy marmoset walks on all four limbs. [6] Space before reference.
Behavior
  • Pygmy marmosets live in groups made up of 1-2 adult males and 1-2 adult females, with a single breeding female and her offspring, ranging from 5-9 members. Strange structure, maybe this would be better: A pygmy marmoset group, ranging from 5-9 members, contains 1-2 adult males and 1-2 adult females, including a single breeding female and her offspring.
/Communication
  • The pygmy marmoset... Pygmy marmosets...' Be careful not to switch between singular and plural. Species articles are always written in the singular, exceptions apply when specifically talking about groups.
  • Since the pygmy marmoset is often found in the rain forest, plant life, as well as the atmosphere, add to the normal absorption and scattering of sound. Change ...as well as the... to ...and the humid....
Ecology
  • Day ranges, home ranges, where they sleep, densities, predation?
/Geographic range and habitat
  • There needs to be more information about the habitat. What type of vegetation is characteristic of the understory? What type of rainforest?
  • ...Columbia, Ecuador,Boliva, and Peru. Space needed.
/Diet
  • How long do they feed before moving on? How often do they return to the same tree?
  • When the gum production resources, usually just 1-2 trees, of its home range (0.1 to 0.4 ha) become depleted, a group moves to a new home range. Clumsy sentence, needs rewording. Maybe move the home range data to the Ecology section introduction along with the other information I mentioned above?

Summing up[edit]

Rate Attribute Review Comment
1. Well-written:
1a. the prose is clear and concise, it respects copyright laws, and the spelling and grammar are correct. Most of the prose is good. There are a few points made by Jack above which have not been addressed
1b. it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. The article is unbalanced. Some parts are excellent (the Behavior section) and others are defficient. The lead still includes information not found in the body of the article such as the forest habitat. The lead section should include a brief summary of the Behavior section.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. Most of the referencing is good
2b. it provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines. It includes suitable inline citations.
2c. it contains no original research. Not as far as I can see
3. Broad in its coverage:
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic. The Physical Description section is inadequate. Improving this would be easy. The Habitat section and the Ecology section need enlarging.
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). Yes
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias, giving due weight to each. The article is neutral.
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. The article is stable.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by images:
6a. images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content. Images are appropriately licensed
6b. images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. Article could do with some more images with appropriate captions
7. Overall assessment. Article needs some more work before it reaches the GA criteria. I will put this review on hold for one week to give time for the above points to be addressed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:34, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Article does not meet all the GA criteria. The lead is not a good summary of the rest of the article and the article is not sufficiently broad in its scope. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 14:02, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Pygmy marmoset/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: J Milburn (talk · contribs) 12:21, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Happy to offer a review. J Milburn (talk) 12:21, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

  • "The communication system is complex and includes vocal, chemical, and visual signals." You're yet to mention a communication system. How about something like "Members of the group communicate using a complex system including vocal..."
  • "There are three main types of call which depend on distance the call needs to travel and visual displays may be made when the monkey is threatened or to show dominance." Awkward.
  • "It is sometimes threatened by habitat loss and the pet trade." Do you mean particular populations are threatened, or that these are the biggest threats to the species (although not that big)?
  • I don't like the way you bold the generic name, but not the specific name. Both or neither, I'd suspect.
  • The taxonomy and evolution section really needs beefing up. I'd want to see a discussion of who originally described the species and what they called it (preferably with translations of the name) before you jump into the debate about its generic placement. The discussion of the phylogentic study is also a little technical- you don't introduce the other genera.
  • Who described the subsepces?
  • Any sexual dimorphism, other than females being slightly heavier?
  • What, if any, is the physical difference between the subspecies?
  • "When the sap puddles up in the hole, it laps it up with its tongues" It has multiple tongues?
  • "exudate" is unexplained jargon
  • "In contrast to other callitrichines with a cooperative system of infant care, there is no relationship between the number of adult males and the number of infants and offspring. However, there is a significant positive relationship between the number of juveniles and the number of adult and subadult group members." This is difficult to follow, and comes out of nowhere. You're yet to introduce the fact that there's a "cooperative system of infant care".
  • You repeat the information about twins- I suspect it only needs to be discussed once.
  • Are these groups family groups? I assume so, but it's never said. Do individual marmosets stay in the same group all their life? Surely there must be some system for group switching, or they will just end up mating with siblings generation after generation. There's precious little about inter-group relations generally.
  • "the trill for short distance communication, J-calls for intermediate distances, and long calls for long distances" Jargon. I think this section would be best rearranged so that the calls are explained when you first mention them.
  • "The pygmy marmoset is listed as Least Concern by the International Union for Conservation of Nature due to it being widespread, common, and is not thought to be at risk of large population declines." This doesn't make sense
  • So they're captured as pets? Is this illegal? Are they kept in zoos? (I have a feeling I may have actually seen them in zoos.)
  • The references look excellent, as do the images.

While this certainly isn't a bad article, it's a pretty big topic; it's clear that there has been a lot of research into this area. There seem to be a few bits you've not covered, which really should be covered, and, in places, the writing isn't as good as it could be. I'm going to keep this review open to see what you can manage, but I worry that there may be more to be fixed than can be done in the GAC timeframe. Certainly keep at it, though- as I say, it's a long way from poor, and this is a topic which deserves a decent article. J Milburn (talk) 13:00, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, it's been a week and there's been no movement, so I'm closing this review. While this is a fairly strong article, it's going to need a bit more work before it's GA standard. Keep at it, and do renominate once you've worked on my suggestions above. J Milburn (talk) 15:30, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, I have been "out of office" for a while. I will make the changes at some point in the future, but can't at the moment. Cheers, Jack (talk) 15:31, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Editing for GA[edit]

I am part of a behavioral ecology class at Washington University in St. Louis, and as part of a group project we are aiming to make this a good article to we edited this page to bring it up to that standard. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vpandrangi (talkcontribs) 20:56, 26 September 2013 (UTC)


Here are some responses/corrections to the GA comments that I made--Kelly You repeat the information about twins- I suspect it only needs to be discussed once. I combined the two sections on twins under the Social Systems section, which I felt was the more appropriate location. The section in blue is what I added/changed to the article. The pygmy marmoset is a non-seasonal breeder and usually gives birth to twins once or twice a year.[19] However, single births occur 16% of the time and triplet births 8% of the time. [13] The pygmy marmoset is usually monogamous though there is some variation within the species in terms of breeding systems. Polyandry also occurs as male marmosets are responsible for carrying the infants on their backs. Having a second male to carry the offspring can be beneficial as marmoset litters are often twins and decreases the cost to any particular male. The daily range of the pygmy marmoset, however, is relatively small, which decreases the rate of polyandry.[20]
Are these groups family groups? I assume so, but it's never said. Do individual marmosets stay in the same group all their life? Surely there must be some system for group switching, or they will just end up mating with siblings generation after generation. There's precious little about inter-group relations generally. I added information on what the groups included to the lead, but could not find much information on group switching or inter-group relations. About 83% of the pygmy marmoset population lives in stable troops of two to nine individuals, including a dominant male, a breeding female, and up to four successive litters of offspring. The modal size of a standard stable troop would be 6 individuals. Although most groups consist of family members, some may also include 1-2 additional adult members. [4] Members of the group communicate using a complex system including vocal, chemical, and visual signals.
"the trill for short distance communication, J-calls for intermediate distances, and long calls for long distances" Jargon. I think this section would be best rearranged so that the calls are explained when you first mention them. I rearranged the placement of sentences in this paragraph so that the types of calls are explained before the trends or patterns are discussed. The pygmy marmoset is well known for its communication abilities including an intricate system of calls. The trill is used during feeding, foraging, and when travelling and the group is close together. The J-call is a series of fast notes repeated by the caller and is used at medium distances. Both calls are used as contact calls. The long call is used when the group is spread out over distances greater than ten meters or in response to a neighboring group.[18]The pygmy marmoset uses the trill for short distance communication, J-calls for intermediate distances, and long calls for long distances; these have respectively decreasing frequencies. It is capable of distinguishing both the type of call and the individual making the call.
"The pygmy marmoset is listed as Least Concern by the International Union for Conservation of Nature due to it being widespread, common, and is not thought to be at risk of large population declines." This doesn't make sense I reworded the sentence singled out by the reviewer in an attempt to make the meaning more understandable. The pygmy marmoset, due to its extensive population size, is not thought to be at risk of large population declines. As a result, it is listed as a species of Least Concern by the International Union for Conservation of Nature. The species was originally listed on Appendix I by CITES due to wildlife trade but has since been downgraded to Appendix II. It is threatened by habitat loss in some areas of its range, and by the pet trade in others (i.e. Ecuador).[3]
So they're captured as pets? Is this illegal? Are they kept in zoos? (I have a feeling I may have actually seen them in zoos.) The reviewer had some quick questions on the keeping of pygmy marmosets, so I added a little bit of information on where they could be found, or even in some cases, obtained. Interaction between humans and the pygmy marmoset is associated with a number of behavioral changes in the animal including social play and vocalization, both of which are important to communication between animals in the species. Particularly in areas of heavy tourism, pygmy marmosets have a tendency to be less noisy, less aggressive, and less playful with other individuals. They are also pushed into higher strata of the rainforest than they would normally prefer. Tourism in areas native to the pygmy marmoset is also correlated with increased capture of the animal. Due to its small size and relatively docile nature, captured pygmy marmosets are often found in exotic pet trades.[28] Capture causes even more behavioral variations, including a decrease in both the number and the sound level of vocalizations.[29] Pygmy marmosets can also be found at local zoos, where they exist in groups. [30]