Talk:Queen's University Belfast

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Miscellaneous[edit]

Their is good reason for why the date of establishment should be named as 1908, this is the year of creation of the university rather than 1845 which is the year of creation of the college - a distinction should be made. Djegan 20:18, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

To the person who placed the comment in the former table regarding the supression of "Queen" in front of Victoria's name been politically motivated; non use of such titles is a general precidence in wikipedia and please look on United Kingdom infobox if not convinced - the excess and improper use of titles is nothing more than a fetish. Their is a time and place for titles but not in a table that is intended to be a summary. If we were to put the correct title then the table would be half the article page lenght and width. The comment and table have been removed not to return. Djegan 22:59, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Reputation[edit]

This section is a bit weaselly and implies that Queen's is a top-ten university. Can somebody provide their overall score from the THES (unfortunately it is subscription-only, or I'd do it myself). The Guardian's 2005 education supplement has Queen's a respectable 33rd out of 132, so I'll use this figure if nothing else is available. Tellkel 16:27, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

No objections so I have amendedTellkel 14:55, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

In Dutch[edit]

Has anyone seen the Dutch version of this page? I really do think they've got the wrong end of the stick... The Kitsch Gardener be sociable

In Holland, "Queens University" is a kind of motorcycle. Go figger. -lethe talk 16:42, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Dr Gordon Blair from Queen's University worked on the bike's engine, hence the QUB in the name Alastairward 15:28, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Gaelic translation of name?[edit]

Why have a gaelic translation of the name, since this information's already contained in the gaelic entry? Moreover, what's the benefit of having this (& if we have one language why don't we translations for all languages?) --PdDemeter 17:00, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Using alternative language names is not unreasonable; when it can be justified, the university is located in Northern Ireland and increasingly these institutions are bilingual. I don't believe myself in adding Irish names to Irish articles for the sake of it, but believe that on balance, it is justified and reasonable here. Djegan 17:20, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
The name is used in the University by various societies (such as the Gaelic football and camogie clubs) and by the university press itself when publishing some books. If I'm not mistaken, the students union produced an Irish language version of its guidebook a year or two ago. At any rate, it is usual to provide non-English names in articles by which a university is known locally - take the University of Groningen/Rijksuniversiteit Groningen, or the University of Paris/Université de Paris.--Kwekubo 17:25, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
Ok, fair enough... I see your point --PdDemeter 13:33, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
If you look at all the other entries for universities north and south you will see that the only place the Irish name is mentioned is in the breakout box on the right hand side, when you consider that some of these universities use Irish as their 'official' language (or at least as an working language in some form), just call the Galway University main line. I think the line should be removed from the main paragraph. While it may be used by some of the societies it is used less by the university than any of other universities so for the sake of conformity it should be removed. As long as the Irish name is shown in the piece, ie as the title in the breakout box, that is enough for this English language entry. --Njg 22:33, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. When the above conversation took place the IrishUniInfobox template could not display Irish names (see diff); it does now, so no need to mention the name in the body text too. --Kwekubo 00:33, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
As an aside, its not so much the bi-lingual nature of the university (if a minority language was being catered for it would more likely be Mandarin Chinese) but the legal requirements that public offices legally produce Irish language texts, possibly to do with the Good Friday Agreement. The Irish cultural societies aren't an official university office, so they're just doing as they see fit, most people attending them would be likely to be Irish so its more convienient for them Alastairward 11:40, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Irish is not an official language of QUB, though it is an official language of the students' union. If the Good Friday agreement is to be used as a justification then surely Ulster-Scots should be catered for also? I notice the University of Stirling article, for example does not translate to Scots GaelicBlowmonkey 15:04, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Its important to point out that the text does not imply any officialness. Ultimately if people want to add other language versions it might be prudent to show that the term has some prior use. Djegan 19:49, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

What about including the Irish translation in a reference to the Students' Union bilingual policy, which would be an appropriate place? What about an Irish Wikipedia? Blowmonkey 20:26, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
We have an Irish Wikipedia here. http://ga.wikipedia.org Quarkstorm 20:40, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was no consensus. —Nightstallion (?) 09:08, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Voting[edit]

Article plainly states that the new name is the official one. Article should be under the official name. It will help disambiguation purposes. Also, the current name could suggest that QUB could be a campus of a larger university system (i.e. the Belfast campus of the QU system), or a federated university of some sort. It is neither of these. I suspect this move is not too controversial, but figured I'd follow Djegan's recommendation and submit a request.--67.70.160.208 08:04, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Support wikipedias convention on most common name is not a hard and fast rule. Djegan 19:08, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep As Is, the name of the institution is Queen's University, Belfast. It's not Queen's University of Belfast. A lot of American institutions use the "of" and then place name, but isn't always true in British/Irish/International English. Don't do it. Rowlan 21:03, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment if you read the Royal Charter, July 2001 it states "...a University under the name of “The Queen’s University of Belfast”...". Djegan 21:29, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.


Name of the University[edit]

Their is an unneccessary over use of the definitive article ("The") in this article when preceeding the current university and former universitys and colleges titles. Several times I have removed them only for them to reappear. Djegan 22:59, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Quotation from the article "...sometimes known as Queen's University, Belfast..."; more like almost always and defacto. That paragraph will have to change. And lets not over do the definitive article, "the", either. Too busy now to implement. Djegan 19:14, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

I have changed the article with this in mind, it must be noted that the use of "The" with university titles in British English is decreasing although it does recieve an occcassional false revivial. As a matter of course the title name of the article should always recieve most prominance, if wikipedia editors are not happy with this then by all means submitt a request to change the article title. Personally "Queen's University of Belfast" would be preferable in any case. Djegan 21:16, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
The official name is "Queen's University of Belfast", as confirmed by legal advice given to Queen's in the 1970s following an inspection of its charter. Therefore there is no justification for the use of the uppercase: "The Q...". If the definite article is used for grammatical purposes, it must be "the". In recent times, actually, Queen's corporate identity has attempted a rebranding as "Queen's University Belfast" (note no comma before Belfast).
Looking at the plethora of internal and external publications on my desk, "Queen's University Belfast" (no comma) is the prevalent name of the university. There's a dead link to a corporate guide to publications on the QUB main website, so I can't offer any more than this cite (from my desktop!) Alastairward 15:08, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Disambig header[edit]

Is the disambiguation header been put in place for the sake of real disambiguation of links or as I suspect as a form of advertising for queen's colleges and universities? In the case of the latter it should be removed, place a link in see also or use a category - disambiguation should only be used where their is a real need for it. Djegan 14:15, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I didn't put the dab there, but modified it at one point when I had written the article on the historian Michael Roberts and was looking for Queen's University, Belfast at Queen's University and, annoyingly enough, was redirected to a completely different university, which I hadn't heard of, somewhere in North America... You might consider making Queen's University the disambiguation page. I thought about it, but was not aware of any possible conflicts I might get myself into by doing so, and since it wasn't important to me, I just made the dab header at both universities clearer (there was no reference to the Queen's University (disambiguation) page there, only the college page). (BTW, you should try to remove the white background below the shield.) u p p l a n d 17:13, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I am not particularily bothered about it but it would be preferrable to disambigs which can be clumbersome. I have introduced a new style table as part of recifying the issue and as the old style table was overburdensome and a closet for disparaging comments. Djegan 22:59, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Page move[edit]

Why has this page been moved when the outcome of the vote was no consensus? Stu ’Bout ye! 09:04, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Irish name/Alumni[edit]

The Irish name is given as "Ollscoil na Banríona, Béal Feirste". Does this not reflect the old university name, "Queen's University, Belfast"? Should it not be a translation of "Queen's University of Belfast"?

Plus, there should be a section on alumni. Not a list though. It doesn't need to mention every single person. A paragraph for politics, the arts, science etc, mentioning a few people in each. Don't have time to do it myself today, but if no one else steps in I'll do it over the next few days. Stu ’Bout ye! 13:17, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I think that translations are more a matter of convention rather than word-for-word correctness. Take for instance the sister-university, the National University of Ireland, which is conventionally presented as "Ollscoil na hÉireann" but a more faithful - but neither official nor conventional - translation would be "Ollscoil Náisiúnta na hÉireann". Djegan 21:25, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Alumni in info box[edit]

Is this a useful or clear entry? For universities in the Republic where a clear legal record is needed for Senate elections this is meaningful data, but for other universities it's either guesswork or the number the university alumni office has on record (and the latter really says more about how good the alumni office is at maintaining contacts, and how easy a task that is, than anything else). Timrollpickering 21:46, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Certainly in the case of Northern Ireland less attention would be paid in keeping records up-to-date than the Republic of Ireland as their is no statutory requirement in the former to keep records for election purposes. Djegan 22:18, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm inclined to remove the stat from the box - I don't think this is clearcut data or useful for comparisons - most universities don't use it and the ones that do have a different method of gathering. Timrollpickering 23:07, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Article location[edit]

One way or another the naming for all QUB articles and categories is a bit of mess:

At a glance, Queen's is one of few universities in the UK where the Wikipedia article isn't located at the current brand name of the institution. (See for example Lancaster University, Durham University, Imperial College London and Queen Mary, University of London, all of which follow the current institutional branding rather than the legal titles "University of Lancaster", "University of Durham", "Imperial College of Science, Technology and Medicine" and "Queen Mary & Westfield College".) I'm not too au fait with the convention for the Irish universities - most appear to be using the institution style but I'm not sure if they are different from the legal names, though University College Cork - National University of Ireland, Cork and University College Dublin - National University of Ireland, Dublin appear to be exceptions.

However we've also got a mixture of names in categories: Category:Queen's University of Belfast, Category:People associated with Queen's University, Belfast, Category:Academics of Queen's University of Belfast and Category:Alumni of Queen's University, Belfast. One way or another something needs to be renamed for consistency across contemporary artciles.

(The Parliamentary constituencies are also mixed - Queen's University, Belfast (UK Parliament constituency) and Queen's University of Belfast (Dáil Éireann constituency). However these are historic and it's probably best to use the official names for them. What discussion there's been on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Parliament constituencies#University seat names is inclining towards using the forms in F. W. S. Craig's books for the UK ones - i.e. Queen's University of Belfast.)

A glance at the QUB website leaves me unclear as to whether the comma is part of the brand name or not.

Thoughts? Timrollpickering 21:58, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

As a graduate of Queen's, all of the official paperwork I have uses "Queen's University Belfast" (no comma). I think that's the best title for the article. Cordless Larry 22:38, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
No-one else has commented on this. Unless there's objection, I'll moved this page to Queen's University Belfast in three days and then propose renaming all the relevant categories in line with it. Timrollpickering 16:55, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Not to sure about "Queen's University Belfast", but its used in the latest logo and website certainly. The problem with anything other than "Queen's University of Belfast" is that anon editors will keep reverting the article terminology, which has largely been avoided on the current location. Djegan 17:05, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Has that been a problem in the past? I don't know of anyone who actually calls it the "Queen's University of Belfast", and since the website etc. all use "Queen's University Belfast", I can't see any problems with naming the article that, particularly if we rename related articles and categories such as Category:Academics of Queen's University of Belfast. Cordless Larry 13:31, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
The charter of the university uses "The Queen’s University of Belfast". I am not saying that "Queen's University Belfast" is unacceptable, simply pointing some issues out. Djegan 13:50, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree it's the charter name, though as I note above there are a lot of institutions where the charter name and the current brand name are different. Indeed looking at the other nineteen institutions in the Russell Group three do not use the full charter name (Imperial College London, London School of Economics, Newcastle University) whilst two others leave out the commas (King's College London, University College London). That's a good quarter of the Group and the Imperial, LSE and Newcastle cases are even more different from the charter names than QUB. All the Wikipedia articles follow the brand name and have had few problems. Timrollpickering 14:15, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi, both of you are incorrect. As someone has said in a previous section, the charter says "Queen's University of Belfast", not "The/the Queen's University of Belfast". There is no doubt about this but I have no way of proving this other than having been told this by a former colleague who worked in Publications at Queen's in the 1960s when this legal advice was sought. "Queen's University, Belfast" has never been used by the university to refer to itself bigpad 09:51, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Oldest university[edit]

Regarding the issue surrounding the oldest university I believe that we should stick to the undisputable facts, this university is the oldest in existance in Northern Ireland. With regard to the island we really just dont know what the second oldest university is; it is likely to be either the National University of Ireland or Queen's or even both simulteously (depends on the charters and laws and how they were implemented as they were created in the same year; that much is clear).

With regard to Maynooth, the Pontifical University of Maynooth (associated with St. Patrick's College) was created in 1896; this was on foot of a pontifical charter and not any charter or law in legal force in Britain or Ireland. The National University of Ireland, Maynooth was created from certain faculties of St Patrick's (the non-theological ones created in the 1960s) and would have little continuance with the pontifical charter of 1896 and its degree giving powers s that was theological based.

In summary St Patrick's is a college and has always had to rely on a university in modern times for degrees be it the pontifical or national. It may seem a bit complicated at first but my basic premis is that their is no continuance of universities in Maynooth before 1997 apart from that of the unrecognised Pontifical University; thats why what I have outlined in the first paragraph, for not least continuity and simplicity, is prob the best explaination for this articles. Any comments? As I suggest that is the way forward. Djegan 14:09, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

There's a rather similar debate surrounding which is the third oldest university in England with many similar issues (doors opening, Charters being granted and Acts of Parliament all giving different answers; some instutions not starting as universities from Day One; colleges reliant on a federal university). This led to several rounds of edits trying to assert an individual claim as definitive and at many stages different articles directly contradicted each other on this. The current solution there is to have a separate article on the claims (Third oldest university in England debate) with all the individul institution articles mentioning the debate but avoiding clearcut statements and instead linking to the article. Maybe this is a pattern to follow? Timrollpickering 15:05, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I have updated the article to reflect my proposal above. With respect to an article for Irish universities certainly it is ambiguous as to what is the second oldest university and it may even enter the realm of original research, for instance the NUI and QUB where created in the same year and thus immediately tie the second oldest university place; but it is not clear if they were created simultaneous or not. On the other hand the University of Limerick and Dublin City University were created on the same day in 1989 but it is widely known and stated that the former was created first {abeit by several hours as the respective enabling legislation was signed by the Minister in the respective cities}.
In any proposed article, like the English article, their could also be a corressponding section "The definition of "Ireland"" to furthur complicate matters, re Names of the Irish state! Djegan 01:35, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Djegan, with regards the names of the Irish state, would it not be a simple case that the oldest university in Ireland would be from a time when Ireland was just that, one country called Ireland, so no need to worry about the names of the Irish state Alastairward 22:04, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps your missing my point; "country" is a vague and undefined term (compared to the terms island or state, for instances) and reference would have to be made to that in any determination (making the claim its the "x oldest university in Ireland" needs context. Ireland could mean the island, also it could mean the Kingdom of Ireland, or the modern State. Djegan 23:07, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
I see what you mean, I was trying to type that when in need of sleep. Yes, it can be a bit confusing when someone uses the term Ireland. Might it be most meaningful to date it in terms of the island as a whole? Alastairward 22:38, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

University ratings[edit]

(I'm posting this to all articles on UK universities as so far discussion hasn't really taken off on Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities.)

There needs to be a broader convention about which university rankings to include in articles. Currently it seems most pages are listing primarily those that show the institution at its best (or worst in a few cases). See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Universities#University ratings. Timrollpickering 21:36, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Auto peer review[edit]

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Mal 09:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Tone[edit]

I have edited this article to correct several errors, town down details of figures from a unionist background and to slim down excessive detail about the Institute of Prof. Legal Studies and the Theological colleges. bigpad 23:23, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Stats[edit]

Entrants to Queen's have, on average, 359 A/AS-level points and there are currently 5.3 applications per place This figure seems to imply massive oversubscription, but when I was applying to uni (a long time ago) we applied for six courses through UCAS (avoiding putting all our eggs in one basket), if this is still the case, an application to place ratio of 5.3:1, seems rather unremarkable 86.12.249.63 19:33, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

That's true, but (thinking off the top of my head), it's a slightly different situation in Northern Ireland since, unless you want to move to Britain or Ireland, there are only two universities to go to. 5.3 applications per place is therefore quite competitive. Cordless Larry 21:48, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Removal of Irish name[edit]

Removal of Irish form of name because "shouldn't be there unless Ulster Scots is used also as per Belfast Agreement"[1] and "rv, i wouldnt know where to start, in iurts absence Irish should not be used" [2] is strange at best. How does the Belfast Agreement place a responsibility on wikipedia to remove a version of a name where two minority versions cannot be provided? Djegan 20:42, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Native name in {{Infobox University}} has this guideline:

"Name in native language. Produces native name beneath name in English."

It's likely written from the POV that, for example, we ought to mention that Complutense University of Madrid is called Universidad Complutense de Madrid in Spain, a country where (shock, horror) Spanish is the main (and official) language. I don't think they quite anticipated the difficulties here, because NI has no official language, with English being the most widespread.
Info boxes are not for the purpose of muddying matters (they're for main details). If we need both the Irish and Scots language titles in there, then they can be worked into the text.
There, a common sense solution. --Mark H Wilkinson (t, c) 21:11, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
I think we are reading too much into the template here, as you state a guideline, and guidelines are not open and shut cases unlike policies. WP:CONSENSUS is a policy, and for a great deal of time it was accepted that the Irish should be included in the article (see above talk - it has been long agreed that the Irish should remain in the template) and specifically in the template. The Irish should remain in the template. I suspect that if its simply worked into the text t will be removed again anyhow under the same rationale as before. Djegan 21:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
The page edit history does not suggest consensus. It suggests "disagreement". It suggests that this is something that ought to be rediscussed. --Mark H Wilkinson (t, c) 22:36, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Page edits (sometimes just plain opportunism and vandalism) don't make consensus. Discussion does:Talk:Queen's University Belfast#Gaelic_translation_of_name.3F. If you want to reopen discussion go ahead. But the previous consensus remains until its overturned. Regards. Djegan 22:48, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes, and the actual edit history says that this article spent most of this summer without the benefit of that "consensus". You know, talk pages can be misrepresentitive of what the actual position is, given that they primarily feature those who are more vocal. Perhaps you can source that many people in Belfast call it by other names? --Mark H Wilkinson (t, c) 23:01, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
"Perhaps you can source that many people in Belfast call it by other names?" -- what has this to do with what is been discussed or decided? Perhaps you are referring to WP:COMMONNAME? A naming convention that refers to the naming of articles, not the variation of names in articles. Djegan 23:07, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Here is the Irish version being used on the official QUB website. Thats seems proof enough to me that Queens use the translation. Derry Boi 23:36, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
That appears to be the profile of a staff member in the Irish and Celtic Studies section; and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the Irish for St Mary’s University College, Belfast? Anyhow, another such indidual, Dr Rhian Anders, has her profile partly written in Welsh. And, indeed, the head of Irish and Celtic Studies has his profile written in English. Overall, I'm afraid your proof isn't all it could be. Perhaps you could find an instance of such usage that's not so staff/subject specific, on the front page of the site, say? --Mark H Wilkinson (t, c) 06:19, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
On that page "Ollscoil na Banríona" - meaning "Queen's University". But no wikipedia policy requires us to show that something has "official" standing, such a policy would be absurd, because an encyclopedia deals with fact and verification of those facts in wikipedia is subject to WP:VERIFY. Their are many instances throughout the internet of the university name in Irish, many authoritive. Simple fact is that a minority of the Northern Irish population use the Irish language and that the language is indigenous to Ireland. Djegan 09:58, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Can you verify it's the name that natives of Northern Ireland would ordinarily use to denote this university? I mean, that's rather the point of that field in the info box. --Mark H Wilkinson (t, c) 10:55, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Removing the Irish language version of the university name just seams plainly intolerant. At the moment their is a 2/2 split on consensus, notwithstanding previous discussions above that saw its retention. Has any other basis of wikipedian policy been presented to justify the removal of the Irish? No. Ultimately if we are people of good faith then we might as well start removing non-English terms from other Northern Irish articles just for consistency. And while we are at it, removing non-English terms from other United Kingdom related articles (in particular Cornish, Scottish, Welsh come to mind) would be equally consistant, because we can be all quite sure that their status in the United Kingdom is similar to the status of Irish in the United Kingdom. The simple fact is that a minority, but none-the-less a minority, use the Irish language in Northern Ireland. And it has been a long standing consensus in Northern Irish articles that Irish and Ulster Scots be presented in a non-obtrusive fashion, subject of course to WP:VERIFY when requested. Djegan 22:49, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

To throw another variable in, we should probably compare what we use here with other universities on the island. University of Ulster currently has Irish in the infobox and in the introduction. South of the border, University College Dublin and Trinity College, Dublin both have Irish just in the infobox, although some others, such as National University of Ireland, Galway have it in both the infobox and the text. Obviously, legal status varies between the North and the Republic, but we should try to aim for some form of consensus (even if it's a different one for NI than for the Republic) because at the moment it's all over the place. Cordless Larry 23:20, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
There is a simple fact in Northern Ireland. Irish and Ulster Scots are equal. That was agreed in the Belfast Agreement. Therefore either both should be used, or neither.Traditional unionist 23:46, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Whilst I agree that both should be allowed, that does not mean that if one cannot be provided then the other must be removed. That sort of politics (an eye for an eye) brought ruination to Northern Ireland, and it has no place in wikipedia. The Belfast Agreement was about moving forward, not looking back. Djegan 23:53, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Sounds like we might be agreed that the article should feature both, so does anyone know the Ulster Scots version? Cordless Larry 00:18, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Djegan, that is not the case, the facts are that the Belfast Agreement provided parity of esteem to avoid the nationalisation of public bodies and institutions like Queen's. Irish is an identifiably Nationalist language. Nevertheless, the parity of esteem must be respected regardless. I have no idea what the Ulster Scots is.Traditional unionist 00:29, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
In any case I ask, respectfully again, please do not remove the Irish because you don't know the Ulster Scots. Belfast Agreement or not wikipedia is not and never has been the enforcer of any legal document or treaty. Using the Belfast Agreement to remove something is at best a fundamental misunderstanding and at worse just plain daft, its no wonder the media is so critical of wikipedia. Poor decision making, see WP:LAME. Djegan 00:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
I removed it because, as I have outlined, having ONLY Irish, is POV.Traditional unionist 09:58, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Using that same rationale should we, for instance, remove the names of players in the Northern Ireland national football team because their is not an equal nationalist/unionist split in backgrounds, or because the surnames are not equally balanced among the communities? What you are proposing is not NPOV, its just sectarianism, a return to the old ways. If WP:NPOV is the best reason you can propose for removing the name then you need to seriously reevaluate your contribution to wikipedia, and consider withdrawing entirely. Djegan 10:16, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Does "Ollscoil na Banríona" have any official status? It is the "native name"? Or is it the Irish calque of the English? I know it is the common name in Irish, but this is the English-language Wikipedia and unless it has official status then it's about as useful as "L'université de la Reine." (Trad. et al - please don't do us all a disservice by yapping on about the GFA and its consquence for POV, and - online as well as offline - if a distinct Ulster Scots equivilient of a phrse does not exist, please don't use that as a reason to deny the existence of an Gaelic one. Míle/Thanks.)--sony-youthpléigh 10:41, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Well if official status is to be the measure then Irish must be removed from all Northern Irish articles. Because "Tuaisceart Éireann", "Béal Feirste", "Doire" dont have any official legal status in Northern Ireland that I have heard of. If their is no consensus for Irish in university articles then why should it remain in a town, city or county article. Remove the lot, rather than a piecemeal approach of some half-hearted terms. Djegan 10:48, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Daoire and Béal Feirste is simply the name of the place in the native (not meaning any disrepsect to anyone) language. That's no big brainer. Tuaisceart Éireann is the name of a political entity in a language that the executive of that entity respects as being an indigenous one. Again, no big brainer. Ollscoil na Banríona is the name in the Irish-language of an certain institution, but is that name either "native" (like Daoire and Béal Feirste) or does it carry any weight with the governors of that institution (like Tuaisceart Éireann)? Or is it (like L'université de la Reine) just the name of the institution in a language other than English? --sony-youthpléigh 11:17, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Well then lets start applying this fantastic new rationale to other Northern Irish articles. Djegan 11:28, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Go ahead, no one's stopping you. --Mark H Wilkinson (t, c) 11:36, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Considering how keen you are I am sure you will do it for all of us, or are you just a one article editor? Djegan 11:47, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Unless all the articles I've touched in my last 500 edits have been redirects to QUB, I'm thinking probaby not. --Mark H Wilkinson (t, c) 12:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

This article needs protecting to stop nationalists pushing POV. The Irish name is unsourced, not native, and under the Belfast Agreement must be accompanied by Ulster Scots.Traditional unionist 16:13, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I doubt protection is required. This isn't exactly a rabid edit war. Moreover, I think you'll find the Belfast Agreement probably doesn't apply to an online encyclopaedia whose servers reside in America. --Mark H Wilkinson (t, c) 16:18, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
The Queen's University of Belfast is a public body in Northern Ireland, the Belfast Agreement applied to those and it gives parity to Irish and Ulster Scots under English. Therefore it is POV and not encyclopedic to provide Irish and not Ulster Scots.Traditional unionist 16:20, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
No-one is stopping you from adding an Ulster Scots name. If you know one, add it. If you don't know it, its not the fault of Irish speakers. Derry Boi 16:49, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Protection may have to come in if the current reversions keep going. As a step towards a solution my thoughts are:

  1. Non English language names should only appear in info boxes if the university is either a) in a non-English speaking country (not relevant here) or b) officially using a non English language form. See Dublin City University or the University of Wales.
  2. An Irish language name form should only appear if the university is actually using it, and it should be the name form as used by the university, regardless of how accurate a translation it is.
  3. Ditto for the Ulster Scots name form if there is one.
  4. If the university is only using one of the two then that one should appear alone. It would be original research to apply the other whatever the Belfast Agreement may say. That's a matter to take up with Queen's, DELNI and other relevant bodies. Wikipedia isn't the place to correct such an ommission. Timrollpickering 16:59, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
I boradly agree Tim, save for the fact that I'm sure we could find references for all UNis using its name translated into French and German, irish is no different, it should not be used, and if used only with Ulster Scots.Traditional unionist 17:06, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
But the university DOES use the Irish name. [3], [4], [5], [6]. I can give you dozens more links if you want. Derry Boi 17:12, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
You mean a dept of the Uni that is about the Language and the GAA use it. That is not the same thing.Traditional unionist 18:19, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
I would say a university department using the name would be proof enough that the university use it. Derry Boi 20:49, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
No, what you have there is proof that a QUB sports club uses the Irish version and that a project attached to Irish and Celtic Studies section uses the Irish version. What I'm not seeing is a straightforward, unambiguously official use at the main website. --Mark H Wilkinson (t, c) 21:28, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I've come over from the Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities page because an outside opinion on this matter was being solicited. For the record, I am an American with no emotional stake in the British Isles' linguistic debates.

The major problem here, I think, is the title of the "native name" field in the infobox template, "native" being a term sure to set off nationalistic sensitivities on any and all sides. The actual purpose of that field, though, is to show the official name of the university as the university itself uses it if it differs from the English name we'd have to use in the "name" field (this being, after all, en.wikipedia.org).

Take, for example, the infobox for the University of Tokyo, whose official, native name is 東京大学, which appears in the infobox in the "native name" field. The language officially used by that university is Japanese, and the English name we use would not be used internally by them. On the other hand, you have the infobox for Peking University, whose English name actually is used by the institution as an official name, along with its Chinese name of 北京大学. In that case, there doesn't seem to be a need to disambiguate between what an English speaker would call the school and what the school would call itself, because they would both use the same name. Hence, there's no use of the "native name" field in the infobox.

As far as I can tell, the official language of instruction at Queen's University Belfast, and more importantly, its language of administration, is English. Thus, there is no difference between the English name for the university and the name the university would call itself in official communications in its "own" language, and therefore there is no need to use the "native name" line in the infobox at all. --Dynaflow babble 18:43, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with what Dynaflow has said, and also feel that the native name field for this particular case is redundant. ColdmachineTalk 20:33, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Also welcome are comments on the usage of the Irish name of the university (in the articles introduction, i.e. other than in the infobox) in Northern Irish articles. Djegan 22:31, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Given the status of the Irish language in Northern Ireland, I think it would be appropriate to keep the Irish translation in the lead, though it should not be included as the "native name" in the infobox until such time as the school is rechartered in Irish. --Dynaflow babble 00:39, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Synaflow has articulated why this argument is not correct.Traditional unionist 00:46, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

People, it's almost 2009. I'm a unionist, and I have no issue with the Irish language. I class myself as an Irish-Britton. This constant crusade against the Irish language by some living-in-the-past unionists is embarrassing. Irish is the native language of this land. We can sugar-coat it all we want, but that's the fact. America has just voted in a black President, it's time we in Northern Ireland stopped this childish behavious and actually grew up.

Queen's Univeristy Belfast have Irish on their official website

http://quis.qub.ac.uk/gaelach/eng_baile.php

This contains the correct translation of the name.

Let's all move on, grow up and stop embarrassing ourselves by trying to re-write history. Unionism is better than that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.79.157.248 (talk) 23:06, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

3RR Warning[edit]

User:Digby_Tantrum and User:Derry_Boi, you appear to be engaged in an edit war over the inclusion of the native Irish name for this institution. User:Digby_Tantrum, you're on the verge of breaching WP:3RR; it might be best if everyone tried to cool down. I saw the extensive section above on inclusion of this name, and tbh I haven't even read it because I'm almost certain it's just going to be tit-for-tat arguing over whether or not the name gets included. Why not raise this for discussion at RfC or at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Universities? ColdmachineTalk 17:52, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Outside input would probably be a good idea. Does anyone have any objections? --Mark H Wilkinson (t, c) 21:31, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I've requested wider input at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Universities. --Mark H Wilkinson (t, c) 06:30, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Stop adding unsourced material[edit]

The name of the University must be referenced with usage by the University. This does not include the Irish department, as I;m sure the French department translates it into French, that does not demonstrate that the French version warrants inclusion. I doubt you will find a suitable reference, the university was forced to remove Irish language sinage by the Equality Commission about 10 year ago.Traditional unionist (talk) 10:26, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

The University publishes under that name. It is not unsourced. The students Union was forced to remove bilingual signage, but the language was hardly banned from use by the University. Furthermore, you agreed with Dynaflow's sentiments that "I think it would be appropriate to keep the Irish translation in the lead"; now you're changing your mind. It really is most unfair of you to cry foul after moving the goal-posts. Martin (talk) 10:37, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Everything must be sourced properly on wikipedia. I have not moved any goal posts.Traditional unionist (talk) 10:40, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Also, your source talks about a department of the University, not the University. To have a translation we must demonstrate that the university use that as a matter of course. This has not been done.Traditional unionist (talk) 10:41, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
First you said it could not be included because there was no Ulster Scots. Then you agreed to its inclusion, as long as it wasn't in the info box. Then you demanded a reference. Then you said that the reference had to show it had been used by the University. Now you're saying that nothing from the Irish Language department can be used as reference about the use of the Irish Language in Queen's. No wonder you're confident that no reference will ever be found. However, the reference I added is a Queen's University press release. The web page is not part of the Irish department. The Cló Ollscoil na Banríona is the Queen's University Press. They publish books. Do you have any objections to this?
And while you've been busy removing this from the article, I've been trying to find the Ulster-Scots, but have been unable to turn up anything yet. The closest I can get is the University's Ulster-Scots Society, which is called Tha Queen's Society o Ulster-Scotch. No mention of the University's name though, as yet. Martin (talk) 10:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
So you're not denying that you can't find a reference that shows usage by the University it's self? Only one that shows usage by a single department?Traditional unionist (talk) 10:58, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps I wasn't clear. Cló Ollscoil na Banríona publish books for Queen's. That is its name. That is the name the University uses for it, which is why it is so called in an English-language press release. Martin (talk) 11:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
But the University doesn't translate it's name as a matter of course? If not why should wikipedia?Traditional unionist (talk) 11:08, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Because Irish and Ulster Scots are recognised minority languages, and if people in Northern Ireland use either of those two languages to refer to an institution or place, and it can be referenced if need be, it should be reflected in the article. Queen's has an Ulster Scots society, so I'm sure they use the Ulster Scots to refer to it too. If I manage to find out what it is, I'll happily add it. Having the translation there is just a simple statement of fact. It doesn't have to be a big deal. Martin (talk) 11:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Actually it does, because it is politically charged. The university was chartered in English, and we have thus far found no evidence that it uses the Irish translation as a matter of course. This exact same issue arose at Ulster Unionist Party. The response there was correct, and this article is no different.Traditional unionist (talk) 11:22, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Traditional unionist wanted the Irish removed all along. Just becaus he could not find an Ulster Scots version (read his comments and also edit summarys - this is plainly clear). But the reality is that we could all be just as childish ourselfs and start to {{fact}} tag Ulster Scots everywhere. I wonder how much Ulster Scots could be referenced. Djegan (talk) 11:24, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Probably none. Remove it, if it's not referenced it shouldn't be here. Not that much is but thats not really the point.Traditional unionist (talk) 11:28, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
No, it doesn't have to be a big deal. If you choose to let it be a big deal, that's up to you. Now you've moved the goal posts again, and it's not enough that I provided a use outside the Irish Language department, but now it has to be translated as a matter of course. Perhaps you could phone them and ask them how many hundreds of copies of each of their books Cló Ollscoil na Banríona publish, and then you'll have your answer as to how often they translate their name. The idea that Queen's University, one of the biggest institutions in Northern Ireland, never has the Irish version of its name used is faintly ludicrous. What do you think people call it when they talk Irish? I'm sorry if it bothers you, but the fact of the matter is that both Irish and Ulster Scots are recognised minority languages, and they are used to refer to lots of different things. If people choose to attach some sort of political meaning to them (and it cuts both ways), that's their business. Martin (talk) 11:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Whoevers business it is in neither here nor there. It is a fact that it is politically charged. One department a routine translation does not make. We do not live in a bi or trilingual society and trying to invent one on wikipedia is not logical. What people call the university when speaking Irish isn't particularly relevant on an English language encyclopedia now is it?Traditional unionist (talk) 11:40, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
It is when government of the place in question have ratified the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages regarding the language in question. I know that many see the use of language as being a political issue, but Wikipedia is not censored. Martin (talk) 11:46, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Therefore it must be translated into Cornish? Universities are not technically state enterprises, they are private institutions, therefore what the state ratifies is not relevant.Traditional unionist (talk) 11:50, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Wrong! Universities, like all institutions, are subject to the law. Djegan (talk) 12:06, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

This isn't a point of law.Traditional unionist (talk) 18:58, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I know that you know the status of Irish and Ulster-Scots in Northern Ireland (you know, where Queen's is). Cornish has no such status in Northern Ireland (I'm assuming you know this too), so I fail to see what you're getting at. What's more, you were quite adamant that what the State says should be respected further on up the page, weren't you? If you're going to tell me that there's no difference in Northern Ireland between the use of Cornish and the use of Irish, I really don't know what to say. My gast would be totally and irrevocably flabbered.
WP:IMOS clearly states: "When the English version of a name is more common and recognised by English speakers (than the corresponding Irish name), prefer that English name for the article name, but mention the Irish name, if it exists". You're not going to try and argue that the Irish name doesn't exist are you?
Just to save time (for my life grows shorter as this page grows longer), could you please direct me to the Wikipedia policies which you feel prohibit the use of Irish in this article? Do you feel they prohibit its use in just this article, or all articles? Martin (talk) 12:09, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
ETA: English-language books by Queen's University on Amazon, all published under Queen's Irish name.[7] [8] [9] [10] [11] Martin (talk) 12:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Except that this is just the department metioned above , NOT the University corporatly. For example, in the republic every road sign has the name of a town in English and Irish, therefore it is appropriate for Irish to be used. It is also possible to meet wikipedia's verifiabiltiy rules. Queen's, for very good reason, does not us the Irish version of it's name in the letter head or any orther corporate branding. Why therefore, should wikipedia reflect something that isn't there?Traditional unionist (talk) 18:58, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Because it is used by people, therefore it should be featured in the article. It exists. There is nothing in Wikipedia's verifiability rules saying that only things published by Queen's can be used in the article. I can provide many many sources that show it being used, yet you insist on removing referenced material, just because you don't like it. Now you're moving the goalposts yet again, and saying that it has to be featured on an official letterhead. Well I've got news for you: it doesn't. That you personally don't like something is no reason not to include it in the article. I'm really trying my best to assume good faith here. Either show me the Wikipedia policies behind your contention that it doesn't belong in the article, or concede to allow it to be placed in the article. I'd really not rather get into an edit war over this, but it's difficult when you keep removing referenced material for no good reason. Martin (talk) 20:26, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth the university's style guide does not mention any name for the university in Irish or Ulster Scots. Timrollpickering (talk) 01:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

That is a style guide in the sense of good grammer and spelling (with minor emphasis on its effect in the university sector generally). It is not a style guide in the sense of the corporate identity of the university, viz name, identity, images, letterheads etc to be used when identifying the university either internally or externally. Djegan (talk) 01:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
If we used Traditional Unionist's logic, if one wanted to use the style guide to source anything in the English language, we couldn't as it's a product of the English Department. Martin (talk) 02:05, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Whilst the style guide does focus upon spelling and grammar, it does also state clearly what the university's preferred given name is ("Queen's University Belfast" with no commas, "The" or "of"). But for those looking instead to corporate identity gudies , the Queen's one is at http://www.qub.ac.uk/qol/InformationAbout/Administration/QueensCorporateIdentity/ Timrollpickering (talk) 12:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
People in my class also use the Polish and Albanian translation of the University's name when conversing, that is no reason to include it in this article.Traditional unionist (talk) 14:19, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
You are well aware of the positions of Irish and Ulster-Scots in Northern Ireland. To refresh your memory, please see your own argument above concerning the use of Ulster-Scots in the article (which you demanded). Still waiting on a legitimate reason why the Irish can't be used.
I see you've had this discussion at University of Ulster too, where you also insisted that the Ulster-Scots be used in addition to the Irish. So pray tell me, why weren't you insisting that the Polish be used as well? Or Albanian? Or French, German, or any of the other languages you insist are no different from Irish despite your own admissions to the contrary? Why didn't you come out with your current objection in the first place? A less charitable person might conclude that you were only interested in removing the Irish. You are certainly willing to contradict yourself in order to support your position. Martin (talk) 22:05, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Partner universities[edit]

Is there any evidence of the link with Ching Yun University? I can't find anything on Google. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:18, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to remove it until someone can provide a reference. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:36, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
I've just removed this again because it was re-added, without a citation. On this, see Zero information is preferred to misleading or false information. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:19, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
evidence-http://aps2.cyu.edu.tw/asp_work/encyu01/ISO/sisters.htm --118.166.55.220 (talk) 14:23, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, I've added this to the article. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:50, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Coat of Arms vs. Lanyon Building photo (x2)[edit]

Replacing the coat of arms with the Lanyon Building (thats right - exact same picture now twice in the same article) just seams like a bad idea to me. Why not have both the Coat of Arms and the Lanyon Building?

Every good university article should have the coat of arms or corporate logos of the institution. Djegan (talk) 23:10, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Article already has a corporate logo, but the shield will probably be removed one day from Wikipedia as it is a derivative work WP:RFU {{rfu}} (I proposed it for deletion.) If you like the shield or coat of arms, you need to get a free one. Perhaps photograph an object or document whose copyright has expired, or ask a heraldic artist to draw one from the blazon and donate one. One place to ask might be Wikipedia:Requested pictures/Graphics#Flags & Heraldry --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 09:39, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
What has WP:RFU have to do with anything??? And what guideline or policy says "you need to get a free one"? Djegan (talk) 10:14, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
My bad! In answer to your second question, English Wikipedia's Fair Use Policy. And in answer to your first, I should have posted this link: Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria and referred you to the first criterion there. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 15:20, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Representation[edit]

Does this statement add anything to an article about Queen's?: 'In Irish republican theory at this time, elections to the UK and Northern Ireland parliaments were considered to be elections to an equivalent Dáil Éireann constituency.' 86.152.140.89 (talk) 01:21, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

It expains the existence of the Queen's University of Belfast Dáil Éireann constituency. Cordless Larry (talk) 07:46, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Alumni[edit]

The list of former students was in a bizarre arrangement. Normally when putting together lists of famous figures from universities, the order placing used I have seen is

1. Head of state

2. Foreign head of state.

3. Former heads of state (at home or abroad). Plus if royalty attended, they appear just below the foreign head of state category, unless a head of state themselves. That is why if Prince Philip and the Irish president attend a function in Northern Ireland together, the president takes priority and her standard flies above his (or if both poles are of the same size, on the left). But if the Queen and the President are at a function in Northern Ireland, the Queen outranks the President and her standard gets priority. Royal consorts of sovereigns and heirs to the throne also go here in the list, just behind foreign heads of state.)

4. Winners of international honours or holders of international offices.

5. (ex) Prime ministers.

6. (ex) Speakers of parliament.

7 (ex) Ministers and politicians.

Other alumni should then be listed by association (arts, science or whatever).

The list in the article was bizarre, to put it mildly. A former prime minister was behind poets and actors, a Lord Chief Justice was described as merely a lawyer, and a speaker was equated with a minister. Bringing up the rear was a head of state. It was perverse.

I have re-ordered the list to make more logical sense.

- the head of state (whether native or external) as is normal is stated first, so President McAleese would come first (unless Queen Elizabeth II was an alumnus, in which she would come in first as Northern Ireland is in the United Kingdom, and the President would come in second. Nobel winners are listed next. Lord Faulkner as a former prime minister is brought up the list, as is Lord Alderdice as a former speaker. (If he wasn't already in as a former Nobel prize winner, Lord Trimble would come in after Lord Faulker. Prime Ministers outrank First Ministers but First Ministers outrank speakers. As the former hunger striker is a "current affairs" alumnus rather than in the arts he is put in among the current affairs batch of alumni.

Arts people are put in a separate group, by topic.

It makes more logical sense.

BTW the reference to the 'President of the Republic of Ireland' is factually incorrect. (There is no such title, just as there is no "Queen of England". The references are inaccurate and unencyclopaedic tabloid shorthand.) The title is "President of Ireland" even if de jure under the Irish constitution the president is only president of the 26 counties. Alternatively "Irish president" could be used, with "president" lowercased. Similarly one would write "Queen of the United Kingdom" or "British queen".

I don't know if any royalty have attended QUB. If they have they should be put it behind the head of state/foreign head of state category, obviously in order of status (ie, consort to a monarch, heir to a monarch, foreign consorts and heirs, royals from the state, royals from abroad).

Given the complexity in Northern Ireland between different identities, I have deliberately focused entirely on applying the sort of rules that would apply in any state, and left aside considerations as to who belongs to which community, etc. I have played it straight down the line in terms of applying the sort of order that would apply to a university in Dublin or Dubai, or wherever, lest anyone think putting Mary McAleese up front indicates bias. If Queen Elizabeth II was an alumnus of UCD in Dublin, and President McAleese was not, the Queen Elizabeth II would top the list of UCD alumni for that basis. It is about someone's status as a head of state, not political considerations. FearÉIREANN\(caint) 00:40, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Latin translation of name?[edit]

Considering University College Dublin has it's name in Latin, I looked up the translation of QUB into latin and managed to work it out, the 'QU' bit was easy (considering there was a former institution known as the Queen's University of Ireland the 'B' bit of the name was worked out by latinzing Belfast similar to what is done with regards the University of Dublin as Dublin is an Irish name so to speak which is then latinsed to Dubliniensis and it turns out that [this practice of translation is carried out by botanists with regards Belfast http://openlibrary.org/b/OL21370772M/Flora-belfastiensis%3A-the-plants-around-Belfast]. Hope this is okay. Roryf1 15:32, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

There are two problems with this. Firstly, when you say that you "managed to work it out", that constitutes original research. You would need to find a source that supports your translation. Secondly, why would the article need the Latin translation of the university name? I can't think of a reason, particularly since Latin isn't a commonly used language in Northern Ireland (or anywhere for that matter) and the university itself doesn't use a Latin translation. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:00, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

File:Ollscoil_na_Banríona.jpg[edit]

I have put this up for deletion, as I am not convinced it is encyclopedic, please feel free to contribute at Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2010 March 10 Fasach Nua (talk) 19:26, 11 March 2010 (UTC)