Merger proposal: Jazzy Jordan
I propose that Jazzy Jordan be merged into Verity Gospel Music Group. The Jazzy Jordan article is about a non-notable head of a small company. Other than his achievements at work for VGMG, he has 1) had co-ownership of an Indy 500 car for one year, and 2) tried and failed to start his own "Jordan Entertainment Group." The rest of the Jazzy Jordan article is either VGMG's accomplishments, or Jordan's résumé. Jsharpminor (talk) 20:59, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
In response to your thoughts... Jazzy Jordan is very much a notable person not to a small company but to a large company that's no different from RCA, Arista and the other labels under Sony, whose artists who he has signed and spearheaded their projects to peak platinum record and billboard success... that's very notable to be the executive producer of those projects... Jazzy Jordan is no different than Clive Davis, Jay Z, Master P and other top music execs... in which all have signed and spearheaded artists projects to platinum success. In reference to his own record label called the Jordan Entertainment Group... it to was very success with it's artist... Jordan signed Rev. Timothy Wright whose single and album called Jesus, Jesus, Jesus reached platinum success, unfortunately, Rev. Timothy Wright and his family were in a car accident, hit by a drunk driver in which his family was killed and he as the result was paralyzed and died later due to the injuries sustained in the accident but by no means was his label a failure. I propose that you leave the Jazzy Jordan article as it is without any merge. Hansomd 02:54, 19 August 2012 (UTC) hansomd — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hansomd (talk • contribs)
I offer another suggestion... instead of trying to delete or merge an article, why don't you help me improve the article. The problem can be how I'm writing it but don't let my ignorance discredit another man's achievements. I'm willing to learn more on how to write these articles if your up for the job to show me how. Hansomd 02:58, 19 August 2012 (UTC) hansomd
- Hansomd, I am trying to improve the article. The problem is, that the more I try to improve it, the more it looks like it's an article we simply don't need. I would point you to my article on Wikipedia, but wait -- I don't have one. Simply because I don't need one. Nor do we need an article on this guy, despite the fact that you seem to be insistent on the fact that we do. Why don't you take some of my other suggestions and work on the articles for Verity Records, Verity Gospel Music Group, or perhaps join the WikiProjects for record labels or even Christian music? But instead, you are trying to take ownership of this one article. You joined Wikipedia only to work on this article, disappeared for a year, and then when the article was proposed for deletion, magically showed up again out of nowhere. Sorry, but Wikipedia isn't his personal Web page. Move it to his web site. I'm trying to assume good faith here, but you're really starting to look like his promoter. Jsharpminor (talk) 04:47, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
- Let me actually take you at your word. You say that Jazzy Jordan is a company leader, no different from RCA or Arista. Well, let's look at that. Former head of Arista before it was closed down? L.A. Reid. Reid has won three Grammy Awards and got a well-known face by judging on The X Factor. Let's look at Clive Davis, former head of RCA Music Group. He's got five Grammys, and is one of few non-performers in the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame. He found one arguably the best female artist of all time, Whitney Houston, when she was a nobody. Now, back to Jazzy Jordan. ZERO Grammy awards. In fact, every "award" in the deleted "Awards" section was not even an award, but merely a recognition of one (or in one case, five) of Verity's singers hitting the top of a chart / top album sales. (Unless you count the "award" for his half-owned Indy 500 car reaching 12th place.) Bottom line: Jazzy Jordan may be a hard-working executive, but he is not notable. He's playing Elisha Gray to Davis's Alexander Graham Bell. Jsharpminor (talk) 05:02, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
- And here's the point that should put the nail in the coffin of this dead article. Google "L.A. Reid." Now click on "News," on the left-hand column, to see what news coverage he's had lately. 1,760 results. Okay. Now do the same for "Clive Davis". 771 results. Okay. Now how about James "Jazzy" Jordan (although you have to do it as "James Jazzy Jordan" for Google to search correctly). How many results? 700? 200? 20? 10? Oh... well, that is telling, indeed. Jsharpminor (talk) 05:40, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for your input...
- Thank you for yours, and I do say that with all sincerity.
In response to your comments let's start with Jazzy Jordan having 30 stellar and 10 grammys (and not to mention Dove) awards as the executive producer for projects coming
- So, you're right. Why don't you add them to the Jazzy Jordan article, then? All that was in the article previously was notations about top-selling albums. I don't know what "stellar" awards are, but then again, I don't follow this industry very closely.
the artists that he signed to the label such as Kirk Franklin, Fred Hammond, Marvin Sapp just to name a few.. Oh, three of one of the biggest gospel stars in the industry, even to date... History breakers.
- Then add them. Previously, the Jazzy Jordan article was like the uncool kid at the party: trying to drop every name he could think of in an attempt to impress, but really just coming off as a wanna-be name-dropper. Limit it to just the top ones, and you'll get people's attention. Name every name you can think of, and people quit listening.
Second, this is not a competitionas to who has the biggest stick... Google him and you see article of what he does in the industry to date as well... Just because to isn't on a reality show doesn't discount his works... he has produced DVD producttions/documentaries of his artists, that were very successful as well. Example that just popped in my head... Troy Aikman is one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time... He,slay on multiple teams and some may say that he changed the course of football for the Dallas Cowboys for 12 years for the better, however, he has his own article page... Not merged in with the Dallas cowboys article page? That's just one example of a thousand plus I can give... And personally I'm not a Cowboys fan but that doesn't take away Troy's accomplishments, neither will I argue about take a page or merging his page because he is a person/individual who accomplished great things... Likewise Jazzy?
- Point well made. And no, he isn't undeserving of an article just because he hasn't been a judge on a reality TV show. But we do need to establish notability. If that can happen, his article will survive and be much better.
Forth, I think that as a executive producer for any label... Mind you any successful label... I think they would need to know a lot about promoting... On a professional level... A level that he could probably pay anyone to write a wikipedia article, then just some nobody... But I do dig his label and artists so I thought to create this article being that his artists had one... Now personally, i do plan on writing more articles very soon, but the stress of working on one is high because it takes work, then have to deal with sustaining it with challenges such as this... and being you're married with four kids... that's a lot... especially when the person your writing about is notable inside and outside the music industry... Now it is kind of weird that you would watch the page for a year and if you challenge it such as you did... (such as you did last year and it stayed - you have a personal interest of removing it) We both know it goes right to our personal email in which you were the one who opened the article for up for discussion... so there's no magic to appearing on the scene after whatever time it's been... I think you would respond to it as well... If the situation was reversed... I do wonder That if he was in any other music field, would there be such a debate... but that's my personal opinion.
- Your personal opinion bordering on ad hominem arguments notwithstanding, yes, I do have a personal interest in getting worthless articles deleted. When I challenged it last year, we went around a few times and couldn't come to any conclusion, and nobody else could be bothered to work on the article either. It's not that I hate Jordan personally, or the genre of music he represents -- it's just that I don't feel that every assistant key grip needs to have their own article just because they worked as an assistant key grip on Transformers. This article looked like trash, but the deletion discussion seemed unwinnable, so I just decided to put it on the "to do later" list, and left it alone for a year.
- If, on the other hand, you address my challenges and add good material to the article, and I delete a bunch of hooey from it, you and I have just elevated this article on an amazing level. So by fighting with cool heads, we both end up working together to make a great article and establish notability of a person. That's what I love about Wikipedia.
The article Lastly, Clive Davis is 80 years old... is twenty years younger... in which I I believe that he still has twenty more years to accomplish a lot more... Just a thought. Hansomd 22:59, 26 August 2012 (UTC) hansomd — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hansomd (talk • contribs)
- This argument is totally void of reason. By this logic, every newborn should have an article because they still have 70 to 100 years to accomplish a lot more. Jazzy Jordan needs to be notable now for what he has already done, or he doesn't deserve an article on Wikipedia -- and that goes for everyone from your brother's garage band to the President of the UN.
- In closing, I would like to thank you very much for making Wikipedia a better place by being here and doing this. Between the two of us, we might just wind up making an article that I wanted to delete into one of the best music professional articles on the Wiki. Jsharpminor (talk) 19:22, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
- To add to the discussion a little bit, Wikipedia does sometime tend to bite the newcomers. There's lots of advice that is given out in machine-gun style, blowing holes in bad arguments and quickly saying the truth in a very unpolished form. Some people can't handle that and leave quickly. Others, like yourself, pick out the good left over in the rubble and try to work with what's left to improve the Wiki. That's a point to your credit that you do that. And then there's the third group of people who are just too stubborn to be dissuaded, and they wind up getting into pointless fights with people... but that's another story.
- In theory, if you write a new article about an obviously notable subject, you won't have to deal with deletion discussions like this one. However, I tend to subscribe to the deletionist school of thought, realizing that most obviously notable subjects have been written about already. (Do you have any idea how many school projects have been given, for a student to "Write a Wikipedia article on..."? Me neither, but I can tell you, the number is very high.) So the very matter of finding a very notable subject that doesn't already have an article is extremely difficult. New articles, then, should pass a high level of scrutiny, to ensure that we're not building a junkyard, a dumping ground, Google, or an endless repository of information. Jsharpminor (talk) 19:36, 28 August 2012 (UTC)