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- 1 Comments
- 2 Baji Rao II and Chimnaji Appa
- 3 Place of birth of rani Laxmibai
- 4 Please don't say she fleed seeing the british
- 5 Clarity
- 6 Missing Information
- 7 Rani of Jhansi
- 8 REBELLION OR WAR OF INDEPENDENCE
- 9 Working on it...
- 10 Dates of Birth and Death
- 11 Date of birth again
- 12 Portrait
- 13 Jhansi Fort
- 14 Subdivision
- 15 Jhalkaribai
- 16 Infobox portrait
- 17 Pronunciation also in IPA
- 18 Edit request on 9 May 2013
- 19 External link
- 20 Peshwa of Bithoor
- 21 Anniversary
I am the author of the web site generously referenced by this article. Rather than edit the article I've decided to make my comments separately.
The Rani's birth date is unknown. There is a great deal of evidence for it being around about 1828, for example the Rani's vakil told John Lang in 1854 that she was 26. There is no evidence that I know of for the 1835 date. As the Rani was married in 1842, sometime in May, the 1835 date would have made her six and half years old.
The article gives the impression that the Rani started recruiting and army and preparing Jhansi's defences between 1854 and 1857. This is not so. This only started after the mutiny in Jhansi and more than likely in response to the ensuing lawless state of the area and in response to the attacks by Datia and Orchha.
Remarkably the death of the Rani is also uncertain, but probability seems to favour that she, and Mandar, were mortally wounded during a charge by the 8th Hussars outside Gwalior at Kotah-ki-serai.
Allen Copsey (www.copsey-family.org/~allenc/lakshmibai/) 17:25, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Hello, it is really nice to hear from you. Thanks for the information, and clarifying certain issues and points..--Bhadani 18:05, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
As I understand it, it is pretty much unknown if the massacre of the British was done with the Rani's consent or not. I think it would be better to state this rather than "The massacre almost certainly occurred without the Rani's consent" ..--Phunting 8/8/06
Umm...Vakil means lawyer, right? The article should link to lawyer or something. Hindi-speakers aren't the only ones who will be reading this. FruitMart07 19:32, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I am a newbie and not a native English speaker so I didn't want to change anything in the original article. However, the chapter heading "First Indian War of Independence" is IMHO POV, the same as "Indian Mutiny" would be. I would suggest changing it to something more neutral like "The Uprising/Rebellion of 1857" or the like. Secondly, the article states that it has never been established whether the cartridges were actually greased with pork/beef fat. In many of the history books I am reading at the moment it says that it has in fact been confirmed that at least in some cases forbidden fats were used. Just my two cents... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 01:22, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
The king of jhansi is died in 1820.
Baji Rao II and Chimnaji Appa
The article claims, "Manu was raised in the court of Baji Rao II, the last of the Maratha peshwas, where her father was an advisor to the Peshwa's brother, Chimnaji Appa." Now, as far as I know, Lakshmibai was born around 1828 and Baji Rao II's reign ended in 1818, 10 years earlier. So, how was she raised in the court of a king who no longer ruled? Also, as far as I know, Chimnaji Appa was the brother of Baji Rao I, who ruled the Marathas in the mid-1700's. Did Baji Rao II also have a brother named Chimnaji Appa or is there a mistake here? (I know that the TV series "Jhansi ki Rani" shows Manu in Baji Rao II's court and her interactions with Chimnaji Appa, but I wonder how accurate that is.) Could somebody please help clear up the facts here? Thanks! --Hnsampat (talk) 02:00, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Place of birth of rani Laxmibai
Article says Laxmibai was born in Waranasi, where as historical evidences show that she was born in village Dhavadashi Dist.Satara in Maharashtra. There is war memorial constructed in [Satara] which is built in memorey of 1857 struggle which has also mention about her birth place. Official reference http://www.satara.nic.in/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 11:56, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Please don't say she fleed seeing the british
I have removed the statement "fleeing or overseeing the bombardment against the British from the Gwalior Fort." in the Death section. Because this was putting her Iconic image in Indian Women's history in a bad light. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vishwas008 (talk • contribs) 11:51, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
- Feel free to rephrase it, especially the fleeing part (which, I agree, is unfortunately phrased). Most contemporary references are uncertain as to how she died and the main theories are that (1) she was overseeing the bombardment of the British forces when she received a cannon shot wound; (2) she was cut down by a hussar when her army fought a rear guard action against the British (she might or might not have already been wounded by a bullet before this happened); (3) She was cut down by a hussar when the battle was lost and she and her army were trying to escape. Fleeing is definitely the wrong word because it implies running away, which was not the case. Rephrase it anyway you like as long as it reflects the fact that she might have died of bullet wounds or cut down by a sword or both. --Regent's Park (Boating Lake) 15:28, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
The word is "fled", not "fleed". Unfortunately this article is obviously largely written by Indian nationalists - the poor English and anti-British bias is very evident. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 19:29, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
I recently rearranged and renamed parts of this article to comply with Wikipedia formatting templates, but there are still large portions of it that are unintelligible. Looking through the article's history I see that significant chunks of text have been taken out at various points that would add a great deal of information to the article and would clear up much of what is currently in it. Is there are reason why this information was removed? Most of the edits do not have summaries, which makes it difficult to know why certain changes were made. Thanks. -Sketchmoose (talk) 14:55, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
As with sketchmoose, some new additions to this topic are removed by those not articulate enough to provide reason. Some historical points: 1) For three years prior to the 'revolt', the Rani had petitioned the Indian and British Governments for her deceased husband's inheritance. 2) On June 5th, 1857 the sepoys at Jhansi initiated mutiny by killing 3 British soldiers (Capt. Dunlop being one of them). Civilians (British and Eurasian) gatherd in the fort, and held out for 4 days. 3) Capt. Skene arranged an evacuation with the sepoys - but they were all murdered. 4) Letters by the Rani of Jhansi to Maj. Erskine claim that she could not offer the prisoners safety. She herself said that the Sepoys were threating her. 5) Two neighbouring states attacked Jhansi; and with the sepoys, were trying to place a new raja in place of the Rani. 6) At this point, the Rani of Jhansi is compelled to cast her own canon, and make her own army. She even made several attmepts to get help from the British. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 17:03, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
Rani of Jhansi
- "Rani of Jhansi" isn't her name though, it's her title. It pretty much literally translates to Queen of Jhansi. That's the reason why often enough authors make a point of placing the article "the" before "Rani of Jhansi". 184.108.40.206 (talk) 21:40, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
REBELLION OR WAR OF INDEPENDENCE
The whole world including UK believes that British Occupation of India was unjust and wrong I wonder why the 1857 war is referred to as rebellion. Seven Independent countries proudly claim it to be a War of Independence two of which are Nuclear Powers, these countries are respected and recognised in the world, what right does any body have to refer to their freedom struggle as Rebellion.
You clearly have no understanding of "Neutral Point of View". We don't use words like "unjust" or "wrong" on wikipedia. It's an encyclopedia, not a soapbox. This entire article has a POV bias as it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 06:48, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
- Because it was a rebellion. Only a small part of India was involved, and most of the Indian states sided with the British. The idea that it was a war of independence is a retrospective nationalist fantasy. It would be more impressive if Indians could begin to look at the event objectively, as Britons now do. Greg Grahame (talk) 16:00, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Have you all gone mad? What the hell is neutrality? If you call a war just a small game. Millions died both sides and it's a revolution because this lead to growth of Nationalism. Most Indian leaders like Subhash Chandra Bose were inspired by the event and took weapons... --Rawal of Jaisalmer (talk) 15:57, 4 April 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leodescal (talk • contribs) 15:54, 4 April 2011 (UTC) There should be no doubt that it was the very first attempt by Indians to overthrow the British Company Raj. It should be positively called as "War of Indipendance" as 'Mutiny' or 'Rebel' refers to activities by people against their own government. And in no way Company government can be referred as own government by Indians. Only a small part of India was involved was due to lack of planning of participants, lack of proper ways of communication. And most of Indian states sided with British was due to political immaturity. They didn't take active part as their own state was safe at that time unlike Avadh, Jhasi and Pune. Had it been also at stake, they might not have sided Britishers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Santoshat (talk • contribs) 06:00, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
- Please do not attack other contributors, and don't make assumptions about the connotations of English words without checking carefully first. There is nothing wrong with the word 'rebellion' - it may sound pejorative to some ears, but in general it refers to any revolt (just or unjust) against the established authority (just or unjust). It is a fact of history that the British (the East India Company and, in practice by that stage already, the British government too to a great extent) ruled most of India. It is not the place of an encyclopaedia to state whether this was fair or not, and of course it wasn't - but the war was still a rebellion. Even those large swathes of the media very biased towards the Libyan rebels of 2011, for example, still call them 'rebels', without any negative connotation. Harsimaja (talk) 18:36, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
can anyone tell me....that whether Laxmi Bai fought with Orcha.....or not....? In the serial...which is shown....on Zee TV...it is showing a war with orcha....but i have never heard or read anywhere about that war...? I m in confusion...i want answer to my question....but this net is helpless...and wikipedia is also not telling about different wars fought by Lakshmi Bai...Pliease anyoe help me...! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 07:10, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
- Jhansi was invaded by the troops of the nearby states of Orchha and Datia about the same time that rebel sepoys were attempting to depose the Rani. This is now set out in the article.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 10:45, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
There is every doubt that the Indian Mutiny was a war of independence! It involved very few players, most of whom were mutineers. The concept of a war of independence in the Indian context is flawed in any case. India was not a single country. It had had various rulers from outside over the centuries. Is every local rebellion against these rulers an "Indian war of independence"? The events in Jhansi were actually unrelated to the Indian Mutiny. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 19:33, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
Working on it...
There were toooo many historical mistakes. I'm working on this article. Hope to make is featured soon. I will edit it with word and organize it better. Just started the work... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leodescal (talk • contribs) 15:52, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Dates of Birth and Death
I've found several sources saying that she died on the 17th of June, several saying she died on the 18th, and several saying no one is sure. The article as it stands contradicts itself more than once on this very issue. I'll put in a neutral version. Harsimaja (talk) 18:41, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
Now there are contradictions in this article on her birth date, with reason - I'm told most historians think it was 1828, some think it was 1827, one prominent historian has put forward 1835 and I've also seen 1834. For some reason they all agree on the day of the year - just not the year. I don't think I'm the one to disentangle this, but certainly there should be a discussion of this confusion in the article. Harsimaja (talk) 18:41, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
Date of Birth should be corrected
Almost all unanimously agree that she could not have been six and half years old during her marriage in 1842. Hence she could not have been born in 1835. Her approximate year of birth should be considered as 1827. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jsbhavsar (talk • contribs) 14:43, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
Wish to contribute a photograph (clicked by me) of statue of Maharani Laxmibai [on horseback], located at Swarn Jayanti park, Ghaziabad, UP. Please help me to upload the file — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samit.mathur (talk • contribs) 12:57, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Edit request on 9 September 2012
|This edit request has been answered. Set the
- Note: You're referring to the first sentence of the Childhood section. The first source does say 1835, but this is inconsistent with the text in the lede and the infobox, which say 1828, and I don't believe that source is reliable. (In fact, it looks as if there are several unreliable sources used as refs in this article.) The snippet from the second source implies 1830. The third source (actually just a footnote) suggests there's uncertainty. If no one can provide a good source giving a firm date, I suggest the article should note that the year is uncertain. Rivertorch (talk) 11:10, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
Date of birth again
The Biography section now has "Lakshmi Bai was born probably on 11 November 1828": please provide a reliable source for this or it will be changed back to the previous consensus version.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 13:46, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
This image was removed without explanation:
«The memorial board reminds one of the hair-raising feat of the Rani Lakshmibai in jumping on horseback from the fort.» This could be added with an approximate date and a reliable source.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 19:58, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
1 Ранние годы (early years) 2 Замужество (marriage) 3 Аннексия (annexation) 4 Восстание (rebellion) 5 В литературе (in literature) 6 В кинематографе (in cinema).--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 09:33, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
«Hugh Rose and an Indian general betrayed Rani Lakshmibai.»
- Jhalkari Bai, a little known chapter on a woman's courage in colonial India
(img has been renamed on Wikimedia Commons) Unfortunately the photograph is only relevant for being purported to portray Lakshmibai herself; at some time it was misidentified. According to Allen Copsey it is either (1) Sultan Jahan Begum of Bhopal (1838-1901) who in 1872 was created a Grand commander of the Most Exalted Order of the Star of India; or (2) her daughter Sultan Jahan Begum of Bhopal (1858-1930) who in 1904 received the Grand Commander of the Indian Empire and in 1910 the Grand Commander of the Star of India.  "shot by Hoffman in 1852"--what is this based on please? //
- Please supply a reliable source for this "shot by Hoffman in 1852"? Evidence has been brought forward already that it is Sultan Shah Jahan, Begum of Bhopal who did receive honours from the British Crown. --Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 21:32, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Pronunciation also in IPA
The pronunciation of the name is at present given only through an audio file. Could somebody add this also written in IPA please, so that people with hearing impairment or technical limitations etc. have access to the pronunciation? And could the Marathi text be accompanied by a romanization for those who are unfamiliar with Indian scripts but curious enough about the native form? --Miaow Miaow (talk) 13:49, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
Edit request on 9 May 2013
|This edit request has been answered. Set the
There is no mention of Damodar Rao in the Indian Government records or the history books. A Marathi book by veteran writer Y.N Kelkar called “Itihasachya Sahali” or “Voyages in History” published in 1959 provides a new light on this. In this book, I came across a fascinating article narrating the experiences of Damodar rao, Rani Lakshmibai’s adopted son based on his memoirs narrating his tragic childhood experiences. It gives a fascinating insight into the lives of 1857 rebels and travails that they went through. Some of the memories brought tears to my eyes. Unfortunately, my English translation of the same does not bring out the same emotions as in Marathi. But it does answers all the questions that you wanted to know as to what happened after to Rani of Jhansi’s unfortunate son. It is an extremely sad and poignant tale which I shall narrate in Damodar Rao’s own words. In his memoirs, Damodar Rao Newalkar, adopted son of Rani Laxmibai of Jhansi and heir to the Jhansi throne narrates –
“I was born on 15th November 1849 in Jhansi in a collateral branch of the ruling Newalkar dynasty. On my birth, the court astrologers looked at the stars and prophesised that I had a “Raj Yog” or destined to become a king. And how tragically true this prophesy turned out to be! After a young age of three, I was adopted by Maharaja Gangadhar Rao of Jhansi. An application was sent to the East India Company’s representative in Bundelkand to recognize my adoption, but my adoptive father died soon after before a confirmation could be received. After this, my adoptive mother, Rani Laxmibai of Jhansi sent a representation of Lord Dalhousie in Calcutta to recognize me as an heir to the throne but this appeal was rejected. The British East India Company declared that the kingdom of Jhansi would be annexed under the doctrine of lapse and that my mother, Rani Laxmibai would get an annual pension of Rs 5000. In addition Masaheb (Rani Laxmibai) would also inherit all the personal property of my father including the palaces and jewellery. Lord Dalhousie decided that I could inherit these personal assets of my late father but not the kingdom. In addition, there were 7 lakh rupees in the treasury in the name of my late father. When Masaheb requested for the same, she was informed that the British Govt would be hold this money in trust till I reached majority and then, it would be handed over to me.
In 1857, my fate changed for worse. My mother never forgave the British for the annexation of our kingdom and she raised a banner of revolt along with the entire the populace of Jhansi. Unfortunately, we lost Jhansi due to treachery and had to flee to Gwalior. In the battle in Gwalior, Masaheb became a martyr. My attendants would tell be that she carried me on her back on the battlefield. I was too young to remember this. After Masaheb’s death, I remained in Gwalior for the next 3 days. Of Masaheb’s confidants, only 60 had survived the battle. Nanekhan Risaldar, a Maratha named Ganpatrao , Raghunath singh and Ramchadrarao Deshmukh took me under their guardianship and with 22 horses and 60 camels, we broke away from the camp of Raosaheb, brother of Peshwa Nanasaheb of Bithur and decided to find our own way out. We fled along the inhospitable terrain, jungles and ravines and fled towards the direction of Chanderi in Bundelkhand. No village on the way was willing to take pity and help us due to the fear of reprisals by the British.
Since a refuge in any of the villages was virtually impossible, we took shelter in a dense forest by edge of the river. Due to lack of any camping equipment, we had to sleep under the open skies. During the scorching heart of the summer, we would have sleep inside the deep forest amidst the trees. Our skin would burn due to the heat. We had no food and hence had to survive on fruits and berries found in the forest. Fortunately, Mother Nature took pity on us and we never slept hungry in the forest. We were afraid of going to nearby villages for help as there were British soldiers roving everywhere hunting for the rebels. Only in extreme emergencies would our men venture out, with life in their hands and get required provisions from local villages. This went on till the end of summer.
As monsoon began, things went from bad to worse. All forest paths would be flooded making it impossible for us to move. Remembering those terrible days sends shiver down my spine. Fortunately god finally took pity on us. A local village headman informed us that as the British has set up a camp at Lalitpur, he could not help us directly but if we moved to a secret location in the forest as suggested by him, he would provide us with provisions over there. On advice of Naik Raghunath singh, we broke our camp and started living at different locations in small groups of 10 to avoid any suspicion. We reached an agreement with that local village headman that we would give him Rs.500 every month plus 9 horses and 4 camels and in return, he would supply us with required provisions and keep us informed about British movements. At this time, we were around 11 people.
As agreed, we went to live in a cave by a steep cliff. Below the cliff was the Vetravati river. There was a temple of Mahadev nearby too. River Vetravati ran with a great force and there was a large and lovely waterfall. Around us, there were several lakes and ponds. The sheer pristine beauty of the place made us forget some of our sorrows.
In this way, we spent as two whole years as wanderers and fugitives. During these years, I was unwell the whole time. In the month of Bhadrapad, my conditioned worsened. My retainers were worried if I would even survive the ordeal. They begged the village headman to send someone to treat me. Even the village headman was shocked to see my pitiable and delicate state. He soon got a local doctor or a “vaid” who happened to be his uncle to treat me in secrecy.
As I recovered from my illness, another problem arose. While fleeing Gwalior, we had around Rs. 60,000 with us which by now had been fully exhausted. Now, with no money to pay, the headman rudely asked us to leave and we had no choice but to comply. We gave the headman Rs.200 and asked for the return of our horses. That charlatan returned only 3 horses and informed us that others had died! We left as a group of 12 however, on our way further, we were joined by another batch of followers that had left earlier and soon became 24.
We soon reached the village of Shipri-Kolaras in the Gwalior state. The locals there recognized us as rebels and put us all under arrest. We were in local jail for 3 days. Then under and escort of 10 horsemen and 25 sepoys, we were sent to the Political Agent at Jhalrapatan. As our horses had been confiscated, we had to walk for days. My men could not bear to see my plight and carried me on their back by turns. Most of my mother’s men who had survived had taken asylum in Jhalrapatan. There was a Political agency nearby managed by a Poltical Agent named Mr. Flink. One of my mother’s risaldar named Nanhekhan was working at this political agency. He was a trusted aide of Mt Flink. He went to Mr Flink and said “ Late Ranisaheb of Jhansi had a son who is now just 9-10 year old. After she died in the battlefield, that little child had to live in the forest like an animal. His trusted followers have looked after him with care. What is the fault of this innocent child? What has he ever done against the British Raj? Please spare that child and entire Hindustan shall shower blessings on you”. Mr Flink was a kind man. He sent a message to the Political Agent at Indore, Col Sir Richard Shakespeare, to which Colonel replied “If Rani of Jhansi’s son surrenders willingly, I shall see that his affairs are settled”. Mr Flink asked Nanhekhan to take me to Indore. On the way we met Raja Prithvisinh of Jhalrapatan. He had great respect for masaheb and he treated me very well promised that he would put in a good word for me with the resident at Ajmer. We were kept in prison near Jhalrapatan for around 3 months. We had no money till then and so I was forced to sell the two bracelets or “todas” of 32 tolas each which belonged to late Masaheb. There were the last remaining memories of her with me. And now they were lost. On 5th May 1860, we reached Indore cantonment. There I met the politicial agent, Sir Richard Shakespeare. I was placed under guardianship of a Kashmiri official called Munshi Dharmanarayan. I was allowed to keep only 7 followers and all others had to leave. I was allotted an annual pension of Rs. 10,000, which I had no option but to take as I was only a child then.”
This is where the memoir ends. Not much is known of what happened to Damodar Rao in his later life. What is known is that the British Govt refused to hand over to him the 7 lakh rupees which it held in ”trust” for him and had refused to hand it over to Rani Lakshmibai. Damodar Rao lived the rest of his days in penury begging the British govt to restore to him some of his rights without avail. He married and settled down in Indore. In 1904, he had a son named Lakshman Rao. The sad and tragic life of Damodar Rao ended on 28th May 1906. He was 58 years old. His descendants still live in Indore. They use the name “Jhansiwale” after the land of their forebears. Damodar Rao, son of brave Rani Lakshmibai of Jhansi lives on as a small footnote in history of India and in popular imagination as a little boy tied to a fearless heroine’s back.
- Not done: please make your request in a "change X to Y" format. -Nathan Johnson (talk) 15:44, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Peshwa of Bithoor
"Her mother died when she was four. Her father worked for a court Peshwa of Bithoor district who brought Manikarnika up like his own daughter". If someone can provide a reliable citation for this statement it would be useful, and it might be expressed a bit better.--Johnsoniensis (talk) 15:51, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
"The anniversary celebration was marked by traditional Bundeli folk dances and folk songs at the central garden of the fort. Prior to this the culture minister and other dignitaries paid homage at the mazars of Rani Laxmi Bai's trusted lieutenants -- Ghulam Gaus Khan, Munni Bai and Khuda Baksh@Basharat Ali ." Please provide information about when and where this celebration happened, and a reference to a reliable source which gives an account of it.--Johnsoniensis (talk) 08:53, 18 July 2014 (UTC)