|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Rashomon article.|
|Rashomon has been listed as a level-4 vital article in Art. If you can improve it, please do. This article has been rated as C-Class.|
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|WikiProject Japan / Cinema||(Rated C-class, High-importance)|
- 1 what does the gate represent in the story
- 2 Hiroito/Tojo/McArthur allegory
- 3 Spoiler End?
- 4 Hero
- 5 Farscape
- 6 Military film?
- 7 Fair use rationale for Image:Kurorasho.jpg
- 8 Note about names
- 9 Unsourced statements
- 10 Jackson 5ive
- 11 Story an Allegory for WWII Assertion
- 12 Motivation
- 13 X-Files
- 14 Influence in Television section
- 15 Response in Japan self-contradiction
- 16 Woodcutter's version?
- 17 Requested Move: → Rashomon
what does the gate represent in the story
what does the gate represent in the story? Is it the same in the film? Is the meaning constant? Who speaks for the law of the jungle in the story and the film? How has the film changed the character and role of the priest? 06:37, 4 July 2005 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk • contribs)
This interpretation is interesting, but it seems to be original research as defined by Wikipedia. If this interpretation has been published, it would be nice to add a reference. Otherwise the section should probably be trimmed a lot.
BTW, I deleted the conjecture about Takehiro being a mixed English/Japanese wordplay "take Hiroito" as being too far-out. The other guess Tojomaru = "Tojo zero" sound quite bogus too. Jorge Stolfi 00:55, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
- By the way, which spelling is correct after all: "Tojomaru" or "Tajomaru"? Jorge Stolfi 11:25, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
- Considering the lack of real evidence cited by the editor who added the first allegorical explanation, I went ahead and deleted it, and did some cleanup on the other sections (I think I got rid of all the "Tojomaru" spellings). I have my doubts about the second allegorical explanation as well, but since it's sourced, I just added in a little disclaimer explaining that any allegorical readings would have to be the result of the director's influence, rather than the story itself (which is Akutagawa's and dates to 1922). I trust there are no objections. --Julian Grybowski 03:26, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
- ISTR there was an account given by the arresting officer after the priest and before the wife. Ralphmerridew 00:31, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
This page needs a spoiler end warning. Sunspeck 15:54, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
The ending has several interpretations. No one posted any yet? -- Zhixiong 13:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry, Wikipedia does not give spoiler warnings. And as pointed out ... interpretations of what happened vary .. that is rather the point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rifter0x0000 (talk • contribs) 22:53, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
- No, this and the 2002 Hero deal with different tellings of the same event from different people, aka the Rashomon effect. Doctor Sunshine 20:55, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
- No, alhough Hero 1992 also has some characters lying, Hero 2002 tells stories over long sequences that are character subjective, as "invented" with Rashomon. -MURGH disc. 22:03, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
An episode of Farscape also had a Rashomon framing device, where the characters are on trail and each must recount their recollections of an event, with each recollection at odds with the others. Compared to some of the other examples, it is very close to the spirit of the film. RoyBatty42 08:42, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
- Although I'm now reading this after I've already done it, Farscape has been added. :) (Tsukiakari (talk) 00:26, 14 September 2011 (UTC))
I saw a recent film in the last 5 years that was of military theme, in which a group of young officers recount their accounts of an incident which has put some in the hospital (and I believe killed others), with each different account enacted in the film. In the end it turns out that some of the soldiers (army, if I recally correctly) end up being "double agents" as it were. I know it's a vague description, but I've never been able to remember the name of the film. Anyone recall it? TheHYPO 20:09, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Fair use rationale for Image:Kurorasho.jpg
Image:Kurorasho.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
Note about names
Kurosawa did not include in his movie the 'Testimony of an Old Woman under Questioning by the Magistrate' of the Akutagawa's story. The names of killed samurai and his wife - which I removed from the text - are coming from that testimony. We shall not mix the story and the movie this way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 21:50, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
- The head of the company did not understand what the film was about, and the company was reluctant to support the film so they gave the director only a small budget, roughly $5,000 USD. However, despite their doubts, the company gave the film a two-week premiere, twice as long as usual.
- Most Japanese critics called the film a failure: It failed in "visualizing the style of the original stories," was "too complicated," "too monotonous," and contained "too much cursing."
- According to documentaries on Kurosawa and Rashomon, Japanese audiences were shocked at two places in the film. The first occurred when the medium speaks using the dead man's voice and words. The other shocking scene occurs when the woman begs her assailant to kill her husband and safeguard her own honor. That level of blatant self-preservation was not previously depicted in Japanese films.
- The film is also notable as an instance in which the camera "acts" or plays an active and important role in the story or its symbolism.
- The movie Hero has also been compared to Rashomon.
- In the film Inside the Edges, German filmmaker Werner Herzog said that Rashomon is the closest to "perfect" a film can get.
- In Taiwan, press used to refer to a case in which each party involved is having different versions of what actually took place (ex. a crime or a meeting between politicians) as "a Rashomon."
- His knowledge of modern art helped him balance the complication of sound films by making images simpler.
- Miyagawa stated in an interview that the forest setting was symbolic of the mystery shrouding the actual details of the dramatic events.
In the "Influence outside Japan" section, there are several TV shows listed. I know that such lists can often stay incomplete indefinitely, and lists are somewhat discouraged on Wikipedia, but I wanted to point out that there was an episode of The Jackson 5ive called "Rasho-Jackson" which used the multiple-POV device.
Also, the list includes Star Trek: TNG, and I've seen every episode of that series several times, but I'm having trouble figuring out which episode is being referred to. - 126.96.36.199 (talk) 05:23, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Story an Allegory for WWII Assertion
Could someone spell out what the possible or imagined allegory is between this film and the Japanese defeat in WWII? Does the woman represent the Japanese public and the bandit the Japanese military? How does the U.S. and the a-bomb figure in to this? I don't quite follow. A working link to the cited articles would be helpful.188.8.131.52 (talk) 06:04, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Does this section have any sources? Some of this material smells strongly of OR.
I also see problems with the explanation of the (dead) Samurai's motivations behind his account. Under the first presumption (that the account is indeed from the dead samurai), having lost to a bandit and failed to protect his wife's honour would have been reason enough for the Samurai to commit Seppuku, so there isn't a clear explanation why he chose to slander his wife as unfaithful/promiscuous.
Under the second presumption (that the account is a fabrication by the necromancer), the motivation of damage-limitation again fails to explain why the woman has been accused with lack of loyalty and love for the husband. The account portrays her in truly bad light, and she would have to live with this soiled reputation.
Yet another Rashomon-inspired TV episode was "Bad Blood", from Season 5 of The X-Files. This is the episode where Mulder and Scully go to investigate a pack of vampires living in a trailer park. The story is told in flashbacks, with both Mulder and Scully recalling the events somewhat differently.
Influence in Television section
- I am not sure I agree in principle that the section needs to be removed, but I do have problems with this section as it is. What is seems to have become is a list for various editors to put in any TV episode that uses the multiple unreliable narrator technique, without providing a source which shows the writers of those episodes had Rashomon in mind when penning the episodes. The use of multiple unreliable narrators goes back way before Rashomon, for instance to The Moonstone. Many of these episodes could very well have been written by people who had never heard of Rashomon. We should only list an episode in the article if there is definitive evidence that it was a deliberate homage to Rashomon, or that it was influenced by another work that was influenced by Rashomon. That might also help address your concerns by limiting the number of episodes that can be listed. For instance, only a CSI episode, a Mamma's Family episode, and a Fame episode currently have enough prima facie evidence to be considered as definitely influenced by the movie.Mmyers1976 (talk) 22:46, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support removing this section - it is an example of irrelevant connective trivia which tells us nothing about the topic of the article, the film itself. JoshuSasori (talk) 11:32, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Response in Japan self-contradiction
The article says it was no. 5 of Kinema Jumpo's list of films in 1950, so "Japanese critics were baffled; some decided that it was only admired there because it was "exotic," others thought that it succeeded because it was more "Western" than most Japanese films" seems a dubious statement. Probably this is some kind of guff, is there a better source than the Turner Classic Movies web page for this? JoshuSasori (talk) 11:42, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
The following statement is made in this article:
"not even the final version can be seen as unmotivated by factors of ego and face"
But that statement confuses me. Why would the woodcutter's ego/face be affected by the way that the battle unfolded? His shame is the theft of the tanto, which only happens after the story finishes. His story is completely believable. I don't understand why he would have altered it. So why can the final version not be seen as unmotivated by factors of ego and face? I certainly see it that way. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 00:58, 26 August 2013 (UTC)