Talk:Ancient Mesopotamian religion

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Later influence paragraph is vague and incomplete[edit]

It is written than Babylonian traditions/myths/religions influenced a lot of others cultures (Semites, Greeks, Romans, etc). But there is something that I dont see and it tickles me. If :

- semites (including proto-hebrews) were a big part of the tribes that composed Babylonia,

- before being under a "unified" monarchy, Babylonia had been influenced by its tribal origins,

- Sumeria and Babylonia were among the most advanced/developed civilizations of their times,

Shall we conclude that these semites traditions/myths/religions were carried out by those tribes, then developped to form the so-called Mesopotamian religion ? After all, Babylonians could just be the first to have written them down. (unfortunately for us, oral tradition was the rule before the alphabet !)

interesting source : http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v12/i3/sumerian.asp (I dont agree with all the articles of the site though)

Unsourced paragraph[edit]

This paragraph:

Although it died out over two thousand years ago, Mesopotamian religion has still had an influence on the modern world, predominantly because much Biblical mythology that is today found in Judaism and Christianity, was originally based upon earlier Mesopotamian myths. It has also inspired various contemporary Neopagan groups to begin worshipping the Mesopotamian deities once more, albeit in a way often different from that of the original Mesopotamian peoples.[5]

has a source attributed to it but that source is NOT a reliable source and doesn't support what the paragraph states. If this paragraph is true then there should be plenty of reliable sources to support it. I'm removing the source and placing a fact template. Alatari (talk) 17:22, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Merge request[edit]

The article Mesopotamian mythology should be merged into this one, because the subject matter of both articles is the same: belief held in ancient Mesopotamia. Also, there is no need to label certain belief systems as mythology and others as religion. ≡ CUSH ≡ 12:25, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Mythology and religion aren't necessarily the same thing. Mythology is a component of religion which often continues to be told and flourish long after the religion is dead (Mesopotamian mythology is a case in point here). However, religion co0vers so much more than mythology, it includes teachings on morality, on the structure of society, on cultic practice, and also on magic. These aspects of religion are not parts of mythology, and for this reason I believe in maintaining two separate articles. (Midnightblueowl (talk) 09:50, 5 April 2011 (UTC))

Clean-up and improvement[edit]

I merged Assyro-Babylonian religion into this one and turned it into a redirect. The term 'Assyro-Babylonian' seems very loosely used on WP, probably also because it seems copied from entries of the 1911 Britannica. There should be separate pages of Assyrian religion, Sumerian religion, Achaemenid religion and so on for every period of Mesopotamia (which runs up to the Arab conquest). This page should serve as the 'portal', providing a short historical overview starting with the earliest manifestations of 'religion' in Mesopotamian prehistory (the flower burial of Shanidar, Göbekli Tepe, and so forth) and then chronologically working its way upward and providing links to the main articles for each subperiod. And most important, this article is in need of some scholarly sources.--Zoeperkoe (talk) 02:53, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Personal opinions[edit]

It's a very interesting article. But it is not written in a very objective manner. It seems that most of the article is based upon the work of a single historian named Jean Bottero. It would also seem that many of his personal speculations and theories make up much of the article and are stated as already proven facts. This article is not supposed to be about Jean Bottero's work and personal viewpoints.

For instance, assuming that the people living in the area referred to as Mesopotamia were the first to develop writing, stating that most modern day religion such as Christianity and Judaism originated from Mesopotamian religion as a fact rather than the opinion/speculation of a certain historian is not objective. As with the many likenesses between stories from Mesopotamian beliefs and the Biblical stories, it could just as well be that the former was influenced by the latter before they were written down. The article must leave room for further speculation by the reader. Open mindedness is key.

Many sentences could be rewritten so that what is an opinion stays an opinion while things that are safely proven facts will stand separate. But if too much of the article is based on opinion it's no longer an article suitable for an encyclopedia. In that case the least objective parts should be removed. Arexodius (talk) 05:15, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

The great 2010 rewrite[edit]

So it looks like this article was completely rewritten in 2010. Previous version of the article were minor modifications to the Britannica 1911 public domain text. The current article is in some respects better than the Britannica article, incorporating new discoveries and better interpretations of existing ones. But I think that loses an essential theme of the original article which is still predominately true:

- The frigen frip was the main godess of mesopotania derpy religion of Mesopotamia First appear on the historical stage in Sumer; it's a city oriented religion with each city having a protective deity.

- Some time before, and especially after the (albeit temporary) unification under Hamurabi, the various city gods are differentiation and a core pantheon is formed, with Ishtar, somewhat out side it.

- There is a complete continuity between Sumerian and Akkadian periods of Babylonia, many Sumerian text where translated word for word into Akkadian and in many cases only survived in various degrees of intactness through the Akkadian translations.

- The religion continued with a high degree of continuity after the Assyrian conquest; the chief innovations being the ones that reinforced Assyria's style of administration of their empire.

- With the collapse of the Assyrian empire, their cultural imprint on the religion faded and although it continued to evolve, it reverted to of it's pre-Assyrian aspects.

- Even after Persian and Greek conquests the religion retain its essential characteristics and remained inextricably linked to the exercise of administrative power and authority in the region.

- The religion was extraordinarily influential to all the religions of the area, both as a fertile file to borrow from, But often time inducing a reaction against as well.

- In spite of the huge number of cultures involved, and the vast time periods, and the fact that it was not formulated in set of scriptures in the way that Christianity, Judaism, and Zoroasterism were, the Mesopotamian Religion was quite continuous, at least the same degree of continuity as the Egyptian religion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rettkent (talkcontribs) 10:32, 16 September 2012 (UTC)