Talk:Reluctant hero

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I've noticed that all the examples provided in this article are A) male and B) from modern literature or film. C'mon, people, where's your historical range? Are there no older, or, gasp!, non-American references we can make here? Are there any women that could also be provided? Randy 12:25, 03 February 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.70.92.165 (talk)

There are several quotes that claim to be from The Hero With a Thousand Faces in this article. I spent over an hour looking through the book, but could not find them. If anyone knows the page numbers can they please include them in a citation on the page. Thanks. Ampmouse 06:46, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I wrote that (the Campbell references), but it was in 2005. I'm sure I wasn't making it up at the time, but I have no idea what page it might be on. I have done a quick search and come up with a few additional likely references, however:
  • Stuart Voytilla, Myth and the Movies: Discovering the Mythic Structure of 50 Unforgettable Films (1999) p. 50 (has a section on "THE RELUCTANT HERO").
  • Robert B. Ray, A Certain Tendency of the Hollywood Cinema, 1930-1980 (1985), p. 253 (highly POV, but discusses "the reluctant hero story" as "traditional mythology's most basic archetype").
Cheers! bd2412 T 04:56, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

The Transporter addition / further additions in general[edit]

There's been efforts recently (by 98.215.52.2 and 64.81.225.229) to include the protagonist of The Transporter, either by insertion or by replacing the Die Hard references. I've no particular love for Die Hard, but the series has made a ton of money while none of The Transport series have cracked the top 419 listed; this seems like a pretty reasonable metric as to which protagonist would be more widely recognized.

As far as adding as far as replacing, i don't see a need to turn this article into a laundry list. If we now insert another example (from The Transporter, for example), where do we stop?

I welcome feedback and debate from editors; should there be no efforts on this front, this will be become article rule by default. Quaeler (talk) 15:51, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

That is a completely valid metric, however, another metric that may be just as reasonable is the timeliness of the films mentioned. The original Die Hard is over twenty years old, whereas the original Transporter film is is only seven years old and would be the most contemporary film from which examples were given.
Additionally, as a fan of both The Transporter, and Die Hard films, I personally find the protagonist of The Transporter to be a better example of a reluctant hero than John McClane. I have trouble understanding John McClane as a reluctant hero at all, actually, because, while he does whine and complain about what he's doing, from the moment he realizes there is a terrorist attack, he grabs his gun and tries to stop them. Frank Martin, on the other hand initially ignores the pleas of help from the hostage he is transporting, only to later decide to save the day. The Transporter seems to me to be a better example of a reluctant hero than John McClane, and I think that should be one of the most important factors taken into account when deciding whether or not the information should be included in the article. Thank you for listening. Also, I'm not sure I understand how to do this discussion on wikipedia thing yet, so sorry if I'm missing out on some sort of protocols that I should be following.
-Alex Potanos—Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.215.52.2 (talkcontribs) 16:21, 18 March 2009
In Live Free or Die Hard, John McClane says something to the effect of doing it only because there was nobody else to do it. ONEder Boy (talk) 23:18, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps it would be a better example to replace "John McClane from the first Die Hard movie" with "John McClane from the Die Hard Series" or "John McClane fron Live Free and Die Hard" both of which not only include more recent films, but also films in which there may be better examples of a reluctant hero.
-Alex Potanos —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.215.52.2 (talk) 17:06, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Your reminding me of the age of the first Die Hard movie drives me into a rage which can only be soothed by beating someone with my walker… that aside, i completely agree with your reasoning and latter suggestion about the rephrasing and, if i'm simply out of touch with the readership average demographic of Wikipedia, perhaps people would relate to the The Transporter reference better. Anybody else want to chime in concerning which is a better choice for this section? Quaeler (talk) 22:00, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm just suggesting that it's likely someone who has seen Die Hard has also probably seen Star Wars, and therefore wouldn't particularly benefit from the multiple examples. Whereas the are probably young people who have probably not seen (unfortunately) Die Hard, Star Wars, or The Matrix. Maybe we should even try to find something more recent than The Transporter.
I do feel, though, that the Transporter is a more consistently reluctant hero, and even if it wasn't a more timely film, still might be a better example than John McClane.

Apotanos (talk) 22:34, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Quotes Problems[edit]

the quotations from Campbell's "The Hero With a Thousand Faces" are not quotations from that book, as far as I have been able to check. No references are given besides one

Arcoooo (talk) 18:57, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I agree. I double checked my copy and I searched an ebook version of Hero With A Thousand Faces and can not find a single mention of 'reluctant hero' or 'adventuring hero' anywhere in the book. I doubt that these are Campbell's ideas at all. If they are then they certainly are not ideas from Hero With A Thousand Faces. They are probably interpretations of Campbell's work, but not from Campbell himself. I will wait a day and if in that time nobody objects I will either massively edit this article to fix the factual problems with it or I will put some kind of notification at the top to mark it for review.
Bubblesort (talk) 23:44, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
I had meant to deal with this years ago, but it sort of fell off my plate. I have removed the Campbell material, and added reliably sourced references to other authors. Cheers! bd2412 T 03:18, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
The substance of 'reluctant hero' is in the book, Hero with a Thousand Faces, though without that exact phrase. See the section on 'refusal of the call', at this link in the Amazon preview, which starts on page 49 of their edition. The actual phrase 'reluctant hero' is said to occur in the 1988 PBS series with Bill Moyers, as I found by by googling "reluctant hero" "joseph campbell". EdJohnston (talk) 00:57, 12 August 2013 (UTC)