Talk:Republic of Venice
|Republic of Venice has been listed as a level-4 vital article in History. If you can improve it, please do. This article has been rated as B-Class.|
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
- 1 Disambiguation
- 2 footnotes
- 3 Expansion
- 4 9th or 8th century?
- 5 Authorisation of use of material from www.veneto.org
- 6 split history
- 7 Good Map
- 8 wrong Borders
- 9 Why "serene"?
- 10 Successor State to Roman Empire?
- 11 Official name
- 12 environmental destruction
- 13 Is "Italian" descriptive for this time period?
- 14 Map, Greek islands
- 15 Map 1000 AD
- 16 Opera and music?
- 17 The Assurance company
- 18 Map translation needed
- 19 How large was the Major Council?
- 20 First Doge
- 21 Holy Roman Empire
- 22 venetians
- 23 Judas1204 edit
- 24 Photo of image of PASTOR GARAFIANO
- 25 Says who?
- 26 So silly! So Wikipedia!
- 27 Anthem
- 28 Venetian name
- 29 Categories
- 30 Today part of Ukraine?
There are no primary three footnotes. The Machiavelli reference is a secondary footnote to back up the second footnote. That there is cooraborating evidence for the case. Please understand that.WHEELER 14:23, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
This articles needs to be expanded in the History. It stops in 1848 and leaves a large blank spot. It doesn't cover any important events after 1848 or tell what happened when it became a self goverining state/country. 22.214.171.124 02:56, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
- Agreed. If you know about this, please help us make this article better.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 03:28, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
9th or 8th century?
Uh... It's shows that it existed in the 8th century in the first paragraph, however... in the box to the right... it says 9th...
==Heraclea====Reference to Heraclea article does not include the Heraclea in question for Venice, which I assume is an island or community in the lagoon....all Heraclea cities mentioned in the link are cities in other parts of the Mediterrean.,
Authorisation of use of material from www.veneto.org
I received this message, after my request of use of material to [www.veneto.org www.veneto.org]
feel free to use the contents of Veneto.org as you wish.
I'll slowly add material from their historical section. In exchange, I promised to mantain a link to their site at the en of the article, so please leave it. Bye. --Attilios 21:21, 14 October 2006 (UTC)--Attilios 21:21, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Why? As I found it today, there seemed to be a lot of duplicate material. In the future, I would suggest shortening the sections which you split into a new article (there's also the consideration of the history of the text, which gets lost in a simple copy/paste maneuver). Generally, the reasoning to create a new article in such a manner is because the original section has grown too big to be efficiently managable. If you had felt like being really bold, you would've simply deleted the entire history section from this article when you created the History article, leaving a link to the new article in the old section. Such a section would have been a stub, and others would've gotten around to fleshing it out as a summary of the History article, rather than a verbatim copy of the History article, as it now stands.Xaxafrad 07:08, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
- Oops, I typed too soon: after actually comparing the two articles, it turns out only the 1st paragraphs from each section were retained in this article. Xaxafrad 07:55, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I think is better if someone able put a map of the Maximum extent of the repubblic. The map posted show just the republic at the end. At the maximum extent there was also an half Greece, Cyprus, etc.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 11:53, 21 January 2007 (UTC).
The map that show the repubblic at the end in 1796 is wrong. There is also a part of lombardy that was alredy lost by the repubblic —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 11:55, 21 January 2007 (UTC).
Successor State to Roman Empire?
If you follow the lineage here a decent argument could be made that Venice consitutes a legitimate successor state of the Roman Empire. You have: Roman Empire; Empire Splits; Western Empire Falls, Eastern Empire reconquers Italy, Venice forms initially as a Byzantine province, Venice breaks away from Byzantine control (but not because it is conquered by anybody); Byzantine Empire falls to Turks.....is this too much of a stretch....Can it be said that the Roman Empire didn't completely fall until 1797? ;-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 18:07, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, it is a stretch as you could make the same (faulty) reasoning for any breakaway province of the Empire. BTW, the last Roman Emperor abdicated in 1806. Str1977 (talk) 09:59, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- The third Rome was most arguably Russia, due to the title effectively being inherited via marriage to the princes of Moscow (I believe Ivan III of Russia was the first). The Russians did lay a mild claim to it (hence things like the title of Tsar/Caesar as the ruler's title), but they were pretty casual about it and never really referred to themselves as Romans (as the Byzantine Greeks did), which is why the fall of Rome is typically associated with the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople. So one could argue that the Roman empire really died in 1917, but Venice never had even a marginal claim just by virtue of formerly being part of the Empire. (Heck, one might even say that the Roman Empire itself was really just Troy 2.0.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 10:11, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
Official name was "Ducatus Venetus" (latin).--Vu Duc Thang 17:57, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I put the Italian name befor local Venetian one because even at that time Italian language was used for official names and acts, while the local idiom was used in informal occasion, as in the states of italian peninsula. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 15:23, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
I don't see anywhere references to the environmental destruction wreaked by Venice on the forests of the area, and their subsequent inability to build their own ships (having to import hulls from other countries), which circumstance contributed to their decline.
Is "Italian" descriptive for this time period?
I have a concern about the lead paragraph of the article. In what sense can we say that the "Republic of Venice ... was an Italian state", especially in the 12th through 14th centuries when the Republic was at its height? It seems rather presentist to say that the Republic (1100-1490) was Italian. It is probably more correct to say that it, along with other city states and peninsular territories became Italian. We would not call Attila the Hun German. What do others think? N2e (talk) 13:18, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
The article doesn't claim that Venice was of Italian nationality; it says it was Italian. Italian by culture, and by geography (Italy did exist as a geographical expression at the time, to rephrase Bismark —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 09:08, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Map, Greek islands
Map 1000 AD
I do not recall that Venice had built up an empire in Dalmatia by 1000 AD. In fact, it was still nominally subservient to Byzantines at this time. The dalmatian cities were factually independent, nominally under Byzantine rule. Hxseek (talk) 14:25, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
Opera and music?
The enormous importance Venice has in these fields surely deserves some mention? It was one of the leading musical centers of the world from at least early 1600 to the middle of the 1700 century. "Venetian opera" is a key concept within opera today with works such as L‘incoronazione di Poppea by Monteverdi (1642) along with several others still being played all over the world. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 20:49, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
The Assurance company
I removed this:
Map translation needed
How large was the Major Council?
While trying to stub-sort a new stub on Great Council of Venice (is this the same thing?), I notice that the text of this article, Government section, says "powers were shared with the [[Major Council of Venice|(Major) Council}} , composed of 480 members taken from certain families," but the diagram beside it describes the "Maggior Consiglio" as having "more than 2000 members". Someone might like to check and sort this out? PamD (talk) 11:02, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
You say: 'At some point in the first decades of the eighth century, the people of the lagoon elected their first leader Ursus (or Orso Ipato), who was confirmed by Byzantium and given the titles of hypatus and dux. He was the first historical Doge of Venice.'
But in the Ursus article I found: 'Orso Ipato (Latin Ursus) was the third traditional Doge of Venice (726–742) and the first historically known.'
Other articles, like 'List of Doges of Venice' also say that there were other leaders before him.
- Traditionally Paoluccio Anafesto is believed to be the first doge, elected in 697. See Henry Simonsfeld (ed.): Chronicon Venetum quod vulgo dicunt Altinate (MGH SS 14), Hanover 1883, p. 1-69. In the Altinate chronicle (Antonio Rossi (ed.): La Cronaca Veneta Detta Altinate di autore anonimo, Florence 1845) you'll find it in Liber Primus, on p. 20. --Hans-Jürgen Hübner (talk) 05:39, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Holy Roman Empire
Saved from user's first edit, interesting, but needs citing and wikifying:
Actually, in maritime terms, Venice was able to defend itself quite adequately. Buonaparte's attempt to enter the lagoon, entrusted to the ill-named Libérateur d'Italie, was quite easily repulsed. (The failure of this incursion was one of his reasons for fury at the Venetian Republic.) Venetian land forces were relatively weak, but after the rising of Verona against French aggression, it was principally the fear of reprisals that prompted the Venetian state to decide against any form of armed resistance. Norwich is not a trustworthy source on this topic.
There are various works that might be usefully cited on the fall of Venice, but in English one might start with David Laven, Venice and Venetia under the Habsburgs (OUP, 2002).
Photo of image of PASTOR GARAFIANO
This is a photo of somebody's dog. OK? This is either misplaced or someone's idea of a joke.
- It's just vandalism. The same person keeps putting the same image in Doge and Doge of Venice. Probably not much point getting an admin to ban them as they keep changing IP address; just have to keep reverting until they get bored. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 07:25, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
- These gains were not meant to last, however: in December 1714, the Turks began the last Turkish–Venetian War, when the Morea was "without any of those supplies which are so desirable even in countries where aid is near at hand which are not liable to attack from the sea".
Where is this statement coming from? Sounds reasonable but if it is included in brackets, the source should be mentioned. The article as a whole lacks citations and, it being blocked, doesn't allow for people to make changes.--184.108.40.206 (talk) 18:44, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
So silly! So Wikipedia!
I just found that that there is a Republic of Venice article, and a History of the Republic of Venice article!
The Venetian names don't agree in the text and in the side bar; compare:
"Serenìsima Repùblica de Venesia" with "Serenìsima Respùblica de Venexia"
this categories need to be removed:
- History of Lebanon
- History of Russia
- Modern history of Slovenia
- History of Syria
- History of Tunisia
- Medieval Ukraine
Today part of Ukraine?
Could somebody verify this? The map doesn't show the Republic of Venice reaching as far as Ukraine. I'd be very curious to find out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 21:18, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
- The map in the infobox does not. However, Venice held colonies in the Crimea for a short while, before Genoa took over, and there is a map in the article, under the "15th century" sub-section, that reflects this. ¿3family6 contribs 03:28, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
- Further comment: I understand the status of Crimea is hotly contested. I'm not sure how to deal with this on Wiki.--¿3family6 contribs 03:36, 4 June 2014 (UTC)