Talk:Return of the Jedi

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Requested move (October 2014)[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. (While respecting the thoughts of the editor who requested that the discussion be given more time, it is clear that the current discussion will not result in a consensus to move the page, and I would add that these discussions are not votes and that canvassing is frowned upon.) If there is evidence that consensus has changed or new evidence is introduced that is relevant to naming policies and guidelines, please initiate a new request at that time. A multimove request would also be advisable in that case. Dekimasuよ! 00:02, 30 October 2014 (UTC)


Return of the JediStar Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi – The third and final film of the trilogy is commonly referred to by this title in official media. AdamDeanHall (talk) 23:47, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

  • Support It was never "retitled" and always known as it's title episode. I have copies of the original theatrical editions on DVD and the screen crawls refer to them by their episodes. Even Star Wars Episode IV was known as "Star Wars" only till 1979. If it's not possible to change them to their official names, I support adding what their official names are.--Nadirali نادرالی (talk) 23:25, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
The current lead does not say it was "retitled". And your statement the first film was known as "Star Wars" only till 1979 is quite wrong. As pointed out before, you should read WP:OFFICIALNAMES, i.e. WP:UCN. - Gothicfilm (talk) 20:12, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. The Star Wars Episode VI thing is fairly new. It was never commonly known as that on its release and I doubt whether it is even today. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:09, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Motion to postpone poll closing date I am requesting this poll closing date be postponed by another ten days from now since this issue seems to be raised a number of users on talk pages regarding the dubious claims that these movies were "later released as.." but seem to unaware of this poll. if it's closed within the next few days, it would not be considered a fair vote. Thanks.--Nadirali نادرالی (talk) 20:36, 29 October 2014 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Title and infobox name[edit]

There is currently a debate about whether the original title should be first in the lead, or it's shortened title. I think it is inappropriate for the shortened title to be first, as the title is the title. Not only is "Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi" the current title of the movie, it is also the original title. S806 (talk) 01:39, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Under WP:BRD, you discuss a change on the Talk page, not put in what you want. You have been given a WP:3RR warning. I'm restoring the page to the agreed upon version, arrived at through long discussion last January. Read WP:CONSENSUS. - Gothicfilm (talk) 01:49, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
We are building consensus. S806 (talk) 01:55, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

I propose we have the lead read as "Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi (also known as Return of the Jedi)". S806 (talk) 02:05, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

  • Oppose. The current lead

Return of the Jedi (later released as Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi)

is the most accurate. It was agreed to in long discussions in January 2014. "Later released as" refers to trailers, posters and all other promotional material, not the film itself. - Gothicfilm (talk) 02:11, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
The movie was always named "Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi" S806 (talk) 02:15, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
That was not on its trailers, posters or any other promotional material when it was released in 1983. Thus it is not its WP:COMMONNAME. And the lead is supposed to match the title. - Gothicfilm (talk) 02:31, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
WP:COMMONNAME doesn't reference leads, only page names. And many leads don't match the article title, see Borat. Please, please stop being so dishonest. S806 (talk) 02:42, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
Try reading WP:AGF. And discussions should be in one place. Let's keep it at Talk:The Empire Strikes Back - Gothicfilm (talk) 03:09, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
Return of the Jedi was released into theaters as "Star Wars Episode VI: Return Of The Jedi" on May 25, 1983. "Later Released As" is an incorrect statement. That is like saying "The Phantom Menace (later released As Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace)". Also, the argument "because the trailers, posters and all other promotional material said so" is an invalid argument. The movie should be titled by its correct, theatrical name: Star Wars Episode VI: Return Of The Jedi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 00717F (talkcontribs) 16:32, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Support: Use the full title as it has always been the title of the movie. I recognize that people didn't really notice "Episode VI" until the prequels came out but it was always where. Emperor001 (talk) 03:42, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
  • I agree with user:S806 this is just plain fanboy POV pushing.--Nadirali نادرالی (talk) 22:33, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
    • I somewhat agree with user:Nadirali: this is largely a generational debate. Older fans know the original trilogy as "Star Wars," "The Empire Strikes Back," and "Return of the Jedi" due to how they were marketed even though Lucas changed the title of the first movie early on to "Star Wars Episode IV A New Hope" pretty early on (but no one really took notice). The opening crawls to the second two movies always had the full titles of "Star Wars Episode..." and people tended to ignore the Episode numbers even though they were there. It was not until the prequels came out (my generation) that people started actively referring to the movies by their episode numbers. Lucas himself once stated that "Star Wars" is one movie divided into six chapters but he released Episode IV first. He renamed the first movie as soon as he realized it was popular enough to be an entire film franchise. On Wikipedia itself I note that these articles were at their full titles for the longest time and it was not until this past year that they were changed to their shorter titles the older fans know them by (my theory is that early on Wiki was dominated by my generation who knows these films by their full names but then older fans became knowledgeable, signed on, and voted to change the titles to what their generation knows these movies as; in so many years when that generation passes on we will probably revert these articles back to the full titles because that is what the younger generations that grew up with the prequels knows these movies as). I personally never referred to the first movie as "Star Wars" because even as a kid I noticed that it had "A New Hope" in the same place where the other movies had their respective titles (and I didn't know what an episode was until Episode I came out) and I was puzzled why older people like my dad called it "Star Wars" when "A New Hope" was right there in the crawl. Emperor001 (talk) 00:03, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
That's interesting on an anecdotal level, but film history places the most importance on the original release. Star Wars had its greatest impact in 1977. The article focuses on its development, production, and yes, the original release. The later title is much less important. And then there's the matter of Wikipedia policies, which clearly go with the shorter promotional title for all three films in the original series. - Gothicfilm (talk) 01:52, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
It is my understanding that Wiki policy is to use the most common name which today is the full title. In the 1970s and 80s the shorter titles might be appropriate, but today they are known by their full titles and released as such. All official sources give their full titles. Emperor001 (talk) 01:18, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
That was not on its trailers, posters or any other promotional material when it was released in 1983. Thus it is not its WP:COMMONNAME. The lead is supposed to match the title. And discussions should be in one place. This is not a voting section anymore. Let's keep it at Talk:The Empire Strikes Back. - Gothicfilm (talk) 01:46, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
I think the real issue is whether or not the full title was included in the original release, which according to the U.S. Copyright Office, see here it was, so to suggest that the full title was later added would be inaccurate from this point of view, assuming the USCO is enough to go on.--Tærkast (Discuss) 20:43, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
The lead is misleading, the film was originally released as Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi. Stating that the film was "later released as Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi" is simply not accurate. Yes, some pre-release promotional material simplified the title to just "Return of the Jedi," but the full title upon it's release was Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi (it was not later released as such, it was originally released as such). To get technical, much of the early promotional material (trailers, posters or any other items) actually used "Revenge of the Jedi" but we don't have the page lead reading "Revenge of the Jedi (later released as Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi)." Likewise "Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace" was known simply as "Episode I" on much of it early teasers, posters or promotional material but we don't list it as "Episode I" (later released as Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace"). The film itself has always been "Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi" even if the pre-release marketing materials and logos didn't use the full name. I was there on opening day in 1983 and it was "Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi" saying that it was later released under that name is not accurate, it was originally released under that name. Statler&Waldorf (talk) 20:18, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
You're repeating what has already been said and answered above. The trailers, posters and other promotional material used Return of the Jedi when it was originally released in May 1983. Thus that is its WP:COMMONNAME. And discussions should be in one place. Let's keep it at Talk:The Empire Strikes Back. - Gothicfilm (talk) 21:04, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
Nobody is disputing the common names of the films. Return of the Jedi has always been released as Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi. It is the title under which the film is registered with the U.S. Copyright Office and the BBFC, among others. See this link and [1]. Nobody is suggesting the article be moved, just the lead rewritten to accurately reflect the information on its release. --Tærkast (Discuss) 20:52, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Star Wars (film) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 02:59, 8 February 2015 (UTC)