Talk:Revolution (Beatles song)
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|Consensus per this RfC closure and this RfM closure is to use "the Beatles" mid-sentence.|
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|WikiProject The Beatles||(Rated GA-class, Mid-importance)|
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- 1 Revolution 9
- 2 B-side or Double A?
- 3 Political meaning
- 4 Count me in/out
- 5 Separation
- 6 Street Fighting Man
- 7 Credits
- 8 Image copyright problem with Image:Beatles-singles-heyjude-uk.jpg
- 9 Key
- 10 "First overtly political song?
- 11 "the sound of "Revolution" is often cited as presaging heavy metal"
- 12 merge?
- 13 Revolution 9 section
- 14 GA Review
- 15 Main image
- 16 Take 20: errors.
- 17 Scream
- 18 Requested move
I'm not sure it's correct to say that Revolution 9 is unrelated to Revolution. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it's downright incorrect. They were on the same album and recorded by the same guy in the same era. I think 9 is supposed to be the sound of revolution, whereas 1 is about revolution. Just because they sound different doesn't mean they are "unconnected". --kingboyk 20:54, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Just because they are on the same album and by the same person does not make them any more related than any other song on the white album. I also think it is supposed to be the 'sound' of revolution. However, I think that part of the article sounds fine. Could it be said that the are connected but not related? Wright123 19:48, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
- It does if they're both called "Revolution"! Anyway, sure, go for it, see what you can do. --kingboyk 19:57, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I dont think anything needs to be done. It doesnt say that they are unconnected it just says that they dont share any of the same music/lyrics, which is true. Wright123 20:21, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Revolution and Revolution 9 are connected and are realted. Revolution 9 uses as its foundation (first tape), as stated in the article, the unrealised coda from Revolution. So, same name, same album, same composer, shared sound material and number secuencing.
B-side or Double A?
Thread moved from WT:TB:
- Articles mentioning the song "Revolution" mention the song as a B-side with "Hey Jude". The song actually got equal treatment on the radio so it could be mentioned as a double A-side. What do you think? Steelbeard1 13:45, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Hey Jude/Revolution is a Double-A side, and is listed as such in the Billboard charts. Brian.D 15:11, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Strawberry Fields/Penny Lane was a double A. Revolution was a B-side which the sands of time have distorted into the memory of a double A, as far as I can tell. The external link in the article, to a piece by Alan Pollock, lists Revolution as a B-side. If we're going to change that we need a good source. --kingboyk 15:37, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- There is no distinction between how Strawberry Fields/Penny Lane is listed and how Hey Jude/Revolution is listed in the Billboard Hot 100 charts. Each 'side' charted individually during the same time span, and were on the same label/issue number. (Hey Jude/Revolution = Apple 2276; Strawberry Fields/Penny Lane = Capitol 5810) One difference between these two singles is that both Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane peaked in the Top 10, whereas Revolution peaked at 12. In fact, every Beatles singles release, from Yesterday/Act Naturally up to and including Get Back/Don't Let Me Down fared similarly on the charts (both sides charted on the Hot 100) and are depicted in the same manner. Obviously, not all of the 'B-sides' made it to #1... or even in the Top 10 -- some (The Inner Light) barely even made the Hot 100 chart. I contrast this denotation in the charts with the manner in which Queen's We Will Rock You/We Are The Champions is handled. We Will Rock You never charted in the initial release (10/22/77 on Elektra 45441), and the listing for the single shows "We Will Rock You/We Are The Champions" on a single line with no indicated 'B-side'. This single is specifically called out as 'not a double a-side' in the text at the bottom of double A-side. So, the question really becomes, 'What is the official definition of a double a-side, from the point of view of the chart makers (Billboard)?' Clearly, the above-mentioned Queen single is treated differently than the other releases mentioned here, so it makes sense that it wouldn't be considered a double A-side. What evidence is used to declare one identically notated release a double A-side and another as an A-side/B-side?
- - Brian.D 17:01, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- I have read through the article you referenced in Alan Pollack's pages, as well as several others on his site. His listing Revolution as a B-side seems apocryphal at best. His series of articles on The Beatles singles tend to display an expertise in music versus an expertise in the music industry. As such, I would not consider the comment on his page about the song Revolution being a "B Single", nor the comment on the Wikipedia page as particularly authoritative on the matter. Brian.D 19:39, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- It's how the band/record label designated them that counts, I think. I don't know how chart makers decide these things, but they might consider a single to be a double "A" if both sides get a lot of airplay? What we're interested in is, was Revolution a B-side according to The Beatles and EMI? That's what the article is saying and how I remember it, but I'm easily persuaded that I'm wrong :)
- I'm away from home at the moment so I don't have a reference book to check nor can I go pull an original British copy out (if I have one, which I think I do). Surely someone here has a Beatles discog from Record Collector, a reliable Beatles book, or a 1st-issue copy of the single? --kingboyk 19:42, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- I guess this is my point, as well. As far as the charts (Billboard's Top 100, in particular) are concerned, I would offer that Joel Whitburn's books (the above-referenced volume, as well as many others) are the authoritative source. I don't know (nor recall) any marketing differences between, say, Hey Jude/Revolution (Apple 2276) and Let It Be (Apple 2764). The labels on the records both have the same Granny Smith outside/inside as other Beatles singles -- as does Come Together/Something (Apple 2654), which might bolster the argument (from a marketing standpoint) that none of them are double A-sides. As you asked, who decides these things? Is it airplay (and/or chart position), or just an arbitrary decision made by A&R people at the label? If the former, then the Billboard (Cashbox, et al) data is valid in determining the answer(s). If the latter, then there's no verifiable source for the designation, save contacting the individual A&R reps directly and asking them. ;) ...and this would hold true for every single specifically included or excluded from the Double A-sides page. --Brian.D 20:53, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
More discussion should be added about the political meanings of the song and different interpretations of it. I think it's generally viewed as a reaction to either radicalism in general or certain Marxist/Leninist tendencies in particular which were in vogue at the time. ENpeeOHvee 04:26, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Count me in/out
Recently I read Bob Spitz' Beatles biography (appropriately titled "The Beatles"), and it talked about the song Revolution. Specifically, it talked about how he did debate between "count me in" and "count me out" in the lyrics, that he was undecided. So I think you no longer have to call it "folk lore" but can call it fact. They basically just waste the whole freaking point! Hello
Also important to note, and I'm surprised no ones mentioned it, this is written at the height of Mao's radical, brutal and hysteria driven "Cultural Revolution", which began in 1966, where young hardline maoist students did indeed "carry pictures of chairman mao" whilst they exterminated all "capitalist elements" through demonstrations, shop looting, altering/renaming land marks and streets etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 13:18, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
- If Lennon or Ono have never said that the "out"/"in" thing was because he was undecided, then it is nothing but speculation. Besides, Bob Spitz's book is far from reliable. There are numerous mistakes so I cannot trust anything written in that book. McLerristarr (Mclay1) (talk) 23:09, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
- After looking at the article, it actually says that Lennon did say he was undecided. It doesn't say anything about "folk lore" so what are you talking about? This is a talk page for discussion about the article, not a forum for general comments about the song. McLerristarr (Mclay1) (talk) 23:13, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
"Revolution" redirects to a page explicitly about Revolution 1. A separate page should be made for the single (faster) version to aviod confusion.
Street Fighting Man
Image copyright problem with Image:Beatles-singles-heyjude-uk.jpg
The image Image:Beatles-singles-heyjude-uk.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
- That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
- That this article is linked to from the image description page.
- I dunno, watch their hands on the video? That's what I do when playing along with people. Huw Powell (talk) 04:29, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
"First overtly political song?
"the sound of "Revolution" is often cited as presaging heavy metal"
"It has been suggested that this article or section be merged into Revolution (song)."
- There is no reason Revolution 1 (Take 20) should be a separate article. IF anyone wants to continue this discussion, please post on the talk page for the aforementioned article, not here. McLerristarr (Mclay1) (talk) 11:32, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
Revolution 9 section
- "Revolution 9" has its own article; content on this article should all be related to "Revolution" or "Revolution 1". Take 20 is the only evidence of a connection between the songs. McLerristarr / Mclay1 09:26, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
- I've reduced the image to the 300px max guideline. –Mainstream Nerd (talk) 00:10, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Take 20: errors.
This passage has been severely mangled since I wrote it. First of all, why does the article say, "The authenticity of the recording has not been officially confirmed"? This observation comes from an article written shortly after the song appeared, by journalists who had not heard the recording and frankly didn't know any better. The authenticity of the recording is beyond question: the performances are identical to what is heard in both "Revolution 1" and "Revolution 9." And why does the article further say that the track is "presumed" to be RM1? It is explicitly slated as RM1 on the bootleg!
- While much of the initial coverage included mentions of unconfirmed authenticity, I agree that the lack of any counter evidence since then has removed any significant doubts. The word "presumed" was unnecessarily overly cautious. However, the rewrite introduced two specific errors and a general issue. First, Geoff Emerick was not there the night of the Take 20 session (he was there during other sessions); the engineer announcing the take was Peter Bown. Second, the "It is that!" reply was from George Harrison according to the McKinney source as well as John Winn in an article on examiner.com (though Wikipedia has blacklisted hyperlinks to the entire site for unrelated reasons). Finally, the rewrite tends to incorporate the previous references at points which make it seem like they are supporting certain additional statements, when in fact the references do not cover those statements. —Mainstream Nerd (talk) 01:20, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
The article says John does the scream at the beginning of the single version and the Personnel lists John on scream but it sounds like McCartney and in this video McCartney does the scream, so I believe that's incorrect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imb4tYOk8GE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 08:08, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
|This discussion was listed at Wikipedia:Move review on 2013 June 29. The result of the move review was closure endorsed.|