Talk:Rhys ap Gruffydd

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Effigy image[edit]

The lead image looks suspicious to me, and I think we need a better source for it. It's an early 19th century drawing of a knight in plate armour. It's not clear which book it is scanned from, so I can't verify that the book linked the effigy to Rhys. Even if the book does link the effigy to Rhys, maybe we shouldn't treat such an old source as reliable without a corroboration from a modern source. I doubt a 12th century Welsh lord would have worn armour like that. It looks more like armour that a 15th century knight would have worn. Can someone take a second look at this?--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 09:16, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I think that this webpage might mention the effigy [1] (The Church Monuments Society website). It mentions an effigy in the south choir aisle, and states: "Top: Knight (14th century) head on helm with lion crest; tunic shows relief carving of lion rampant. Feet on lion with long tail. Said to be Lord Rhys ap Gruffydd (1197), if so retrospective".--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 09:32, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Searching GoogleBooks I found snippets that mention the effigy. One of them is from the Turvey book used throughout the article. This is all I can see from the snippet: "Although there is no compelling reason to doubt that the tomb viewed by Fenton, which may still be seen today, contains Rhys's mortal remains, neither is there any firm proof, other than a strong tradition. The effigy thought to represent Rhys, a knight in full body armour, can be reliably dated to the fourteenth ...".--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 09:38, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
I managed to extract the rest of the paragraph; "can be reliably dated to the fourteenth century and no earlier. Why the original tomb should have been replaced and possibly moved, and who would go to the time and expense of constructing two undoubtedly finely carved effigies for both Rhys and his son, more than a century after their deaths, are questions which remain to be answered." Thhist (talk) 10:41, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
History of Wales has the effigy with the tag "Effigy wrongly alleged to be of Rhys ap Gruffydd in St David's Cathedral". No citation for saying it's not him though. Surely this was looked at and sorted out by the reviewers as part of the FA process? DeCausa (talk) 11:01, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
I don't think we should count on an old review process, but I agree that the tag you mention (in another article) seems inappropriate, although it seems equally wrong to simply state that it's an effigy of him. Based on the information I have seen here, I would say two things should be noted in the caption under the image, namely that it is "thought to be" of Rhys ap Gruffydd, and that the present effigy was made in the 14th century. Thhist (talk) 11:45, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
I assumed it would have been re-reviewed before going on the main page today. I didn't realise FA's go back on the main page without a re-review. Hmm. DeCausa (talk) 11:59, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
It was chosen to be the TFA (by me, because I am a TFA delegate and I wanted a Welsh-themed article on the main page today) on 14th February. That's plenty of time for anyone who is interested to check the article in detail before it appears. If I'm selecting an article, I will check for maintenance tags and deadlinks and will try to fix what I can (or choose something else). But I am not in a position to give every article appearing as TFA a review equivalent to that which would be given to an article at FAC or FAR. BencherliteTalk 12:14, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Seeing the effigy image on the Main Page today, my first reaction was, what's that behind his head? The article doesn't explain it, either.

If the "dubious" effigy image can still be seen, as the cutline for the St David's Cathedral photo says, wouldn't it make more sense to use a photo of the effigy?

Sca (talk) 15:08, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I changed "Effigy of Rhys ap Gruffydd…" to Alleged effigy of Rhys ap Gruffydd…" to affirm that there is no confirmation that the effigy in the picture is indeed that of Rhys ap Gruffydd. Revolution1221 (talk) 20:57, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Rhys's brothers[edit]

The article says that Rhys was born in 1132, the second son of Gwenllian, and one younger brother was killed in battle and another captured in 1136. Is this correct? DNB on Rhys says that he was the youngest son. Dudley Miles (talk) 16:24, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

"confusingly"[edit]

under the "children" section of the article, does the word "confusingly" mean that it's unclear why multiple of his kids have the same name, or that their having the same name has a confusing effect? maybe most readers understand what's intended, but i'm unclear on it. 63.142.146.194 (talk) 22:00, 1 March 2013 (UTC)