Talk:Riga supermarket roof collapse
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|A news item involving Riga supermarket roof collapse was featured on Wikipedia's main page in the In the news section on 22 November 2013.|
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List of deceased: Paragraph of bulleted points in columns?
Someone will have to find a new image to go on the article, as the current one is up for deletion on Freedom of panorama grounds. This apparently doesn't exist in Latvia. Valenciano (talk) 23:30, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
- It might be covered by WP:Fair use policy, if it is, you as the author should upload it to English Wikipedia and describe how it is covered by it ~~Xil (talk) 01:17, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia should tell the facts;this was probably state terrorism
Why is there no mention that this was probably state terrorism? I live in Riga and hear many people say this. Think about the facts and draw your own conclusions:
After the attack many people noted suspicious circumstance surrounding it:
+the attck took place in the main Latvian nationalist week, after November 18th, when the Latvian government usually whips up hatred of Russians.
+the attack happened in Zolitude, the area of Riga where the most Russians live.
+the attack happened, not in the middle of the night, when the store was empty but at 1800pm, when the store was at its busiest.
+the Latvian government refused help from foreign governments, especially Russias. (What did they have to hide?)
+the Latvian government ordered the scene cleaned up as quickly as possible (what did they have to hide?)
+despite it being a small incident, the prime minister of Latvia resigned just after a meeting with the president.
What many people think happened is this: the Latvian government, which has long wanted rid of its Russian inhabitants, planned the attack. Placing a small amount of explosives at key points on the roof timed to explode at a time when the store was at its fullest. (The building work gave perfect cover.) The attack happened without the knowledge of the President. The government thought he would just go along with it, even if he found out. However the President did find out, summoned the Prime Minister to a meeting and there, told him that he knew everything. He then blackmailed Dumbrovskis, threatening to expose the plot unless Dumbrovskis resigned and allowed Berzsins to appoint a puppet Prime Minister, who he could blackmail into doing his bidding. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SSSRVsegda (talk • contribs) 16:39, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- This is nothing more than a conspiracy theory. If "many people say this" as you claim, I'm sure at least a few newspapers would have written about it. Please provide reliable sources in English, Latvian or Russian that support it. --Երևանցի talk 16:46, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
At the time of the attack, many people reported hearing an explosion. That is also in many, newspapers, so that has been written about. All the other facts I present above have been written about too! The Wikipedia report already says that Latvija refused the help of foreign governments. It already says that the Prime Minister resigned after a small incident after a meeting with the president. You can find out easily that Zolitude is the most Russian part of Riga. Please, tell the truth!! The only conspiracy is the Latvian government one!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by SSSRVsegda (talk • contribs) 16:54, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- Don't forget that large groups of (probably Russian) children were in the store too, if crap written allover Internet is to be believed :D Also it isn't were most Russians live - Russians are in majority there, but there are several such neighborhoods in Riga; the explosion like noise was building collapsing, there are videos of subsequent collapses in which you can hear it; the Latvian government was offered help by several countries and refused every single one, because there was no way they realistically could use it, they did however allow Estonian firefighters to observe as they apparently asked for it as learning expierience; the scene was not cleaned up quickly, in fact they only started doing it yesterday due to complaints by the locals, why rescue happened quickly should be obvious. And calling independence day nationalist week is xenophobic bullshit that doesn't even make sense (how would that contribute to state planting bombs?) ~~Xil (talk) 18:35, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
That's a very good point! There obviously where children in the store at the time of the bombing. How would there not be at such a busy time not long after school had finished? So the fact that no children where among the dead, is also very suspicious. A friend of my friend told her that her work colleague's young niece had been killed in the bombing and that this was being covered up. I've heard that a figure of 20 children where killed; why they do that is unclear. But I suspect the Latvian government is worried that if the truth ever does come out, having murdered Russian kids would only add to the shame. Only firefighters from Estonia, the only other country that hates Russias people more than Latvija does, where there "to observe"; why am I not surprised? Probably it will be better if Russian people in Estonia don't visit supermarkets in the center of that country soon, especially during Estonian nationalist week.
Zolitude is the most Russian district, that's a fact. No one has answered my question of why the collapse just happened at 1800, when the store was at it's most full? Why did Dombrovskis resign after such a minor incident? Did Tony Blair resign after the train crash in Britain or Obama after the hurricanes? No!! Clearly he resigned because he was guilty of something and was being blackmailed by those that found out, like the president. (Expect a close friend or ally of the President to be appointed as the new Prime Minister soon.)
It happened in Latvian nationalist week, when celebrations where taking place around Riga and anti-Russian prejudice is at it's worst and the comings of goings of those carrying out the attack would be less likely to be noticed. Most of the forensic evidence was destroyed quickly after, during the second collapse, which was likely organised as well. People didn't say they heard the sound of a building collapsing, they said they heard an explosion, like a bomb. Massive difference!! That was soon airbrushed out of later press reports. No, too many strange coincedences. As Latvija's press is mostly government controlled, I don't think we will hear the truth from them. That is why Wikipedia, like Wikileaks, should take the lead in exposing this conspiracy, not in simply parrotting Latvijan government propoganda. This should not be removed or censored from the article. How do I make sure that the information is fixed in the article and not removed by Latvian nationalists? Who is the main moderator for this page?
Also, I find the fact that Xil chooses to make jokes about this, by adding sly smily faced emoticons, very distasteful. The murder of around a hundred innocent people in an ethnic cleansing incident, is not a joke. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SSSRVsegda (talk • contribs) 17:07, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
- Ah, god, if you intend to continue this insanity, you'll need to find WP:Reliable sources. A social network posting of "somebody told me they saw gazilion dead children in morgue" or "normally I see million of kids in stores at the time" does not constitute such source. What is distasteful here is trolls like you attempting to use tragedy (in which BTW people of multiple nationalities perished) to incite ethnic hatred ~~Xil (talk) 17:35, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Do not blame. Learn what happened, when happened, why it happened. Start with the model of disaster. Currently created model catastrophe: http://nyos.lv/f/uploads/Zolitude-2.pdf. According this model collapse of supermarket «Maxima»-result of resonant oscillations parts of the building, caused by an external source.Other models describe the individual properties of the building, which could contribute to crash or could not contribute to the crash. Reliably establish the numerical characteristics of these properties at the time of the disaster is not possible.TVERD (talk) 11:50, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
Just as I predicted, a puppet prime minister was indeed appointed by the Latvian president, who exceeded his autority (he is only supposed to be a constitutional figure head) to veto candidates of other parties so that his prefered candidate could get the job. I have added that, with a reference— Preceding unsigned comment added by SSSRVsegda2014 (talk • contribs)
- The said reference only contains information about there being new prime minister, nothing about puppets and what not ~~Xil (talk) 19:53, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
Sketchy casualty numbers
Just an observation - website of charity collecting donations for the injured and families of the victims reports that they've given money to 41 people who were hospitalized on 21 November and 17 people hospitalized later. In the news, as far as I remember, 35 people were initially reported by paramedics (it rose to 39 few days later), however there was conflicting information on the night after the incident about around 40 injured that apparently was reported by police. Not sure, if charity is to be trusted as there have been reports about fraudsters trying to cash in on this and they might be reporting about family members of the victims or other people who were not in the store, but were somehow still involved ~~Xil (talk) 10:09, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
- Here is a report on police being questioned by members of the parliament. It says that for purposes of the criminal investigation the 54 dead and 41 persons who "suffered any kind of bodily harm" have been recognized as victims. As such I updated the number ~~Xil (talk) 16:24, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
Move under more specific title?
EAfter the incident several more collapses in the past were brought up (including one other store of the same chain), while none of those involved dozens of victims and are not likely to get an article, this means that the current title could apply to several events. I suggest Maxima XX roof collapse in Zolitūde, which includes both the name of the store and the neiborghood, which would set it appart from other chains and other stores in the city ~~Xil (talk) 09:35, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, it should be moved to Maxima massacre, to reflect the fact that this was likely state terrorism. Any other article title is a simple betrayal of the truth and commonsense.— Preceding unsigned comment added by SSSRVsegda2014 (talk • contribs)
- Per Wikipedia:Article titles#Precision and disambiguation, "usually, titles should be precise enough to unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, but no more precise than that."
- Has another supermarket roof collapse occurred in Riga? That would be a valid reason to consider renaming the article. Options include substituting the neighborhood for the city (the latter of which has been mentioned far more frequently by reliable sources, so it otherwise is preferable), specifying the chain's name, or appending "2013". It's unlikely that more than one of those changes is necessary. —David Levy 02:17, 18 April 2014 (UTC)