|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Roberto Baggio article.|
||This article may be expanded with text translated from the corresponding article in the Catalan Wikipedia.|
|This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard. If you are connected to one of the subjects of this article and need help, please see this page.|
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
Height is wrong
Hi, I think the height of Baggio in his profile is wrong. The two height measurements don't add up. Please correct. Ondog 07:22, 23 May 2006 (UTC) The correct Roberto Baggio's height is 174 cm (5'8 1/2): now it's ok.--Swirlan (talk) 16:22, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
This is DEFINITELY not an objective piece. I would fix it myself, but knowing very little about Baggio the player, I opt not to so as not to incorrectly reference anything. It definitely needs a scouring though as there is A LOT of POV. empty_jester
I am inclined to agree with the above (see example below). "He was the best Italian player of the 1994 FIFA World Cup, single handedly carrying his team to the final". Moreover, I think there is a high degree of probability that this piece was produced by someone closely related to Baggio, if not by Baggio himself. Kenneth —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 11:48, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
--Closely related to Baggio or Baggio himself? Do you think Michael Jordan is editing his own wiki, because Baggio is far bigger than that. This isn't some small player who might be interested in rewriting his career, this is quite possibly the greatest Italian soccer player of all time, perhaps one of the greatest soccer players of all time. Beckham wouldn't be fit to touch Baggio's cleats. ~Alessio
There is NO question with 5 goals and the winners 2 games in a row, Baggio was the Best player for the Azzurri, and the reason they were in the finals. Disputing that is ridiculous —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 18:58, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
--Agreed. Baggio literally carried the team in the USA World Cup, it's not POV, it's a fact. ~Alessio
YO THIS IS SOCCER/CALCIO NOT AN ENGLISH ESSAY. SHOVE UR BIG WORDS UP UR ASS. BAGGIO WAS THE BEST PLAYER IN94 AND HE WAS = TO OR BETTER THAN MARADONA VAFFANCULO SCEMO
Perhaps in the above sentence, the word that should be changed is "single-handedly." Since football is a team sport, it's impossible to say that a player single-handedly does anything." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Snake78 (talk • contribs) 15:26, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
I doubt that Roberto Baggio speaks English, so don't accuse him of stooping so low as to post a send-up of himself on a free encyclopedia. The fact that this article is in such a sorry state (it being about one of the best players of all time) reflects poorly upon modern football fans and their collective lack of knowledge of players who started playing more than ten years ago. That being said, this article is very poorly written in almost every way. Someone with knowledge of the player should overhaul it. I might myself one of these days. Wannabe rockstar (talk) 20:23, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
I apologise to anyone who may take offence to the ensuing comments, but enough is enough! Empty Jester, Snake78 and myself are the only individuals who have demonstrated that they can distinguish between a fact and an opinion thus far. For example, "Agreed. Baggio literally carried the team in the USA World Cup, it's not POV, it's a fact. ~Alessio". I don't know where to start with this one. Firstly, unless Baggio has upperbody strength equivalent to Superman, this is not true. Therefore, despite what you say, it is NOT A FACT. The use of the word "literally" is both erroneous and ridiculous as the meaning that is intended to be conveyed by the word is absolutely opposite to the meaning literally conveyed by it. Perhaps "metaphorically" would be more appropriate. I do think that Roberto Baggio is one of the top 10,000 players of all time, but this is still an opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 18:39, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
There certainly are statements within the articles that are subjective, however it is relatively difficult to describe the career of a football player without a certain level of subjectivity as it is not a quantifiable science. Alessio's sentence is technically incorrect, however considering English is not his native language and the word literally is banded around with abandon I'm certain he can be forgiven for the mistake. It is much easier to discuss a problem and arrive at a solution if people talk to each other on the same level, so perhaps you should climb down from your (metaphorical) high horse. I would also dispute your definition of a fact; it is not a truth that must be proved beyond doubt, it is the best explanation available that cannot be disproved at that point in time. It is widely accepted by 'football experts' and Italian football pundits that Roberto Baggio was the protagonist in Italy's journey to the USA '94 final, of course there was entire squad and each contributed. From the evidence available Baggio's contribution however is considered to be the greatest within the team. the inclusion of the belief Your argument against f that Baggio was the primary reason for Italy's success in the '94 World Cup would also prohibit the inclusion of any statement beyond physical observations such as height, physique and statistics regarding goals and the clubs which players have played. "Cruyff was known for his technical ability, speed and acceleration, but his greatest quality was vision, based on an acute sense of his team-mates' positions as an attack unfolded." - Taken from the Johan Cruijff article on Wikipedia; this statement is equally as subjective as those found within this article on Baggio, would this statement also be prohibited under your proposed guidelines?
The comment that this has been written by someone close to or by Baggio himself is particularly naive, outside Italy Baggio has thousands of devoted fans who would go to the trouble of writing and ammending this article, within Italy he is quite simply adored. Baggio is also a very humble person who shuns the spotlight and prefers a simple life from all reports which only makes this claim more ludicrous than it was.
First of all, whilst we can assume that on the balance of probabilities, somebody named Alessio is likely to be Italian, the said subject has thus far demonstrated himself to have an excellent grasp of the English language. Indeed, if he had been named Andrew, nobody would have had the slightest inclination that English was not his native language. Therefore, the fact that his native language is unlikely to be English is irrelevant - he should be judged in-line with anybody who has a similar level of English. Moreover, there are no grammatical errors in this sentence (or any other sentence of his on this page for that matter).
Secondly, the comment about Baggio writing this page himself was a joke. No offense was intended so please don't try to take any.
Thirdly, I never once tried to provide a definition of a fact. However, I actually agree with the one that you provide, which makes me all the more perplexed as when I apply this definition to the article as a whole, there are still numerous things being said as if they are facts when they are actually opinions (e.g. "He was the best Italian player of the 1994 FIFA World Cup, single handedly carrying his team to the final"). The problem is not with the content, it is with the way the statement is written - as if there is no scope to disagree with it. It is a fact that Baggio played X amount of games for one team, and scored Y amount of goals for another. It is not a fact that he was the best Italian player of the 1994 FIFA World Cup. For your information, I never once disputed that "Baggio was the primary reason for Italy's success in the '94 World Cup". I actually agree that he was - but I don't agree with the way the point was made. And I do think that the Johan Cruyff quote should be amended to something like: "Cruyff was known for his technical ability, speed and acceleration, but many believe his greatest quality was vision, based on an acute sense of his team-mates' positions as an attack unfolded". There is nothing wrong with being subjective or objective. But pretending to be objective whilst actually being subjective is a style of writing better suited to a tabloid newspaper than to a credible encyclopedia site.
I'm sorry, but I can't stand the current image of Baggio on this page. It seems to say "I love the 1990's" :-) But seriously, can someone get a better image, like one of him wearing a jersey or something? ChaChaFut 03:59, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Numerous factual errors. Lippi was not the manager at Inter until Baggio's second season there. THere was no conflict of paying time between Baggio and Ronaldo (Ronaldo was injured the majority of the time Baggio was there). Lippi preferred to sit Baggio for Alvaro Recoba or utility midfielders.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 22.214.171.124 (talk • contribs) 17:38, 27 June 2006 (UTC) --True, but Lippi never was a fan of Baggio. He dumped him for Del Piero at Juventus and didn't really play him when he took of the Azzurri coaching job. ~Alessio
- That image, it:Immagine:Roberto_Baggio_Usa_94.jpg, has no source or licensing info and is likely to be deleted. --Muchness 07:00, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I'm Giovanni. I have te make a small correction: the italian nickname of Roberto Baggio was "Il Divin Codino", without the o in "divino" Giovanni—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 126.96.36.199 (talk • contribs) 15:43, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it's Italian and not dialect, just poetic let's say! It was used in the whole Italy! --Lanerossi 23:07, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
--Giovanni is right. Divino is the adjective, but it's shorted in colloquial Italian. It's not wrong to call him the "divino codino" but he is commonly known as "il Divin Codino." ~alessio
Baggio 1998 world cup
its factually wrong to say he played for 90 minutes. he came on late in the game to replace del piero and in minutes, he had manufactured the equaliser through a hand ball penalty. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 188.8.131.52 (talk • contribs) 22:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
The immediate above comment is correct. Baggio started and played all 90 minutes, it is not factually incorrect. Del Piero was left on the bench for the entire game against Chile. Check the facts. http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/archive/edition=1013/results/matches/match=8726/report.html ~Alessio
Baggio missed his penalty kick causing Italy to lose to the eventual champions France signifying one of the most upsetting moments in World Cup history. => this is wrong. 1998_FIFA_World_Cup#Quarter-finals —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 21:42, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Inter Milan Edit & Ref
Updated the Appearances and goals while his time at Inter Milan, it appereared to be incorrect; Baggio scored 11 Serie A goals for the Nerazzurri and not '9' as what was mentioned. Quote the reference from Inter Archive below; Link.
- Editors have so far been unable to locate an image that meets Wikipedia's image use policy. --Muchness 02:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
- I am deleting them, as I have told you multiple times. They are unsourced and there are far too many of them. You have been warned about this multiple times. Please do not end up being blocked by reinserting them. Gwernol 01:48, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
He's a fan of Boca. His wife said "Roberto no sigue el fútbol de Italia; no le interesan ni Juventus, ni Milan ni Inter; mantiene interés por un solo equipo: Boca Juniors. Roberto sigue al club más importante de la Argentina. Es una pasión que le nació de sus visitas al país de Maradona y de Riquelme. Allí el fútbol es pasión y espectáculo". http://ellitoral.com/index.php/diarios/2007/06/12/deportes/DEPO-12.html http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Primo_Piano/2007/06_Giugno/12/baggino.shtml (La Gazzetta dello Sport)
"Fourth soccer player always (to the shoulders of Pelè, Maradona and Eusebio) second a promoted world-wide survey from the FIFA via Internet". This sentence makes no sense. Anyone know what it means? 220.127.116.11 11:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
I have absolutely no idea. I guess that somebody has put something in another language into an online translator and then pasted it here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 12:00, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
It's a direct translation from Italian, the correct form would be: "Fourth best player of all time (behind Pele', Maradona and Eusebio respectively) according to a world wide survey promoted by FIFA" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 00:07, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Moving to Inter
it says "After the 1998 World Cup, Baggio signed with Inter Milan. This proved to be an unfortunate move, as the then coach Marcello Lippi did not favour Baggio and hardly played him"
This is a poorly written and researched article. Baggio was a marvelous player but this has clearly been written by a partisan fan rather than by someone with an eye for neutrality. I shall correct it soon, when I have time. A number of statements are wrong and there's far too much personal opinion.
File:Ak47.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion
|An image used in this article, File:Ak47.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
|Speedy deletions at commons tend to take longer than they do on Wikipedia, so there is no rush to respond. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.|
Could someone please find a licensed image that could be used for this article? It's utterly ridiculous that no one has been able to find one for a footballer this well known. The photo really adds to the article. I think one of him playing with Italy would be best, since he is most remembered for his performances with Italy since he played with 7 clubs. Thanks. Messirulez (talk) 01:42, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.insideworldsoccer.com/2010/11/italian-legend-roberto-baggio-wins.html. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Diannaa (talk) 15:55, 17 May 2014 (UTC)