Talk:Ronald Reagan

Reaganomics: Mis-leading Thus Unfactual Data on wiki page

TO: Happyme22 &Arcayne

For the record, I am a new "contributor" to wiki. Therefore, I have no idea if this is the best way for me to send you a message, but it's the only way I could find.

Also, for the record, I am not new to reading wiki pages. As an aside, I have found many errors in many wiki pages and as a result do not put much 'veracity' in any information coming from wiki as most pages I've read leave out or add mis-leading information due to bias.

The other day, I got on Ronald Reagan's wiki page and saw an error under "Reaganomics" so, I joined wiki so I could make the correction.

After I made the correction, and included proper citation, someone took out my "edit" and then, falsely, accused my factual "edit" as vandalism. Next, I re-posted the factual information via "edit" - and because I'm new here - I posted facts and in addition I posted a "talk" comment. (I didn't know how to reply to the accuser any other way, my apologies for that).

The bottom line is, I think it is very important to maintain facts. I think it's especially important to maintain facts on past US Presidents.

I will put here what wiki has that is not factually true and then prove to you what is factually true.

A) WIKI: "the unemployment rate declined from 7.1% to 5.5%, hitting annual rate highs of 9.7% (1982) and 9.6% (1983) and averaging 7.5% during Reagan's administration.[116]

That sentence if factually wrong because the link, or citation [116], is NOT a link for "annual rate highs" rather it is a link whose Title is: "Annual average unemployment rate"

• KEYWORD in link's Title: "Average"
• NOTICE: the words "annual high" nor "annual rate high" are NO WHERE in the title of that link.

B) Factually, according to the US Bureau Labor &Statistics, the factual, actual "annual rate high" is 10.8% (1982) and 10.4% (1983)

1) Here is my proof that the "annual rate highs" are 10.8% (1982) and 10.4% (1983)

• i) Go to: US Bureau Labor & Statistics, Link: http://www.bls.gov/data/
• a) Click on "Database & Tools" where you'll see "Data Retrieval Tools - Top Picks"
• b) Under "Top Picks" Check the box "Unemployment Rate (Seasonally Adjusted) - LNS14000000"
• c) Click "Retrieve Data"
• d) Go To "Change Output Options"
• e) Put in 1981 - 1983
• f) Click "go"
• g) You now see Title for Table:

Series ID: LNS14000000

Series Title: Unemployment Rate

Labor force status: Unemployment rate

Type of data: Percent or rate

Age: 16 years and over

• h) Below the Title in g) above is the Table which shows:

Year	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec
1981	7.5	7.4	7.4	7.2	7.5	7.5	7.2	7.4	7.6	7.9	8.3	8.5
1982	8.6	8.9	9.0	9.3	9.4	9.6	9.8	9.8	10.1	10.4	10.8	10.8
1983	10.4	10.4	10.3	10.2	10.1	10.1	9.4	9.5	9.2	8.8	8.5	8.3

2) You can clearly see, the factual "annual rate high" is, in fact, 10.8% (1982) and 10.4% (1983).

With all due respect, if you two want to keep Reagan's "annual AVERAGE" unemployment data, so as to make it appear as though Reagan's actual unemployment rate high of: 10.8% (1982), didn't exist, that's up to you all ... but ... just call it what it is, "annual average." Do not incorrectly call the annual average 9.7% (1982) and 9.6% (1983) the "annual rate high" because that would be completely false and very mis-leading to readers.

The next step is up to you two - you two will either correctly label the data (annual average 9.7% (1982) and 9.6% (1983)), or you might put in the actual ("annual rate high 10.8% (1982) and 10.4% (1983)), or you will let the mis-leading data stay put ... it's up to you since you two are in charge of that page.

Respectfully Submitted, --Keepemhonest2 (talk) 16:11, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Keepemhonest. I am the one that marked your edit as vandalism. I did so because it violated several established Wikipedia policies, as well as the directive at the top of this talk page that any substantial changes be discussed here first. First things first, this is the exact text of your edit:

"The sentence you just read is 100% FALSE. Not only that, the title of the citation used to give the false data is also wrong. Fact is the data you just read is the annual AVERAGE ... not annual highs. Furthermore, the title to the page to the mis-information just given is "Annual AVERAGE unemployment rate, civilian labor force 16 years and over (percent). Here are the facts on annual unemployment rate HIGHS under Reagan: According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics Data : the unemployment rate hit annual rate highs of: 10.8% (Nov &Dec 1982) and 10.4% (Jan &Feb 1983)."

If you have an issue with the facts presented then discuss them here first. Second, keep in mind that this is an encyclopedia. You stated an argument against a fact presented in an article with different data. I don't like to bite the newcomers, but if you are familiar with Wikipedia then you have to understand that we are not a forum for discussion. Finally, the citation you are giving is a deadlink, so we are not able to view your source material.

Now that you have brought the issue to the article's talkpage I will address it here, as opposed to the same text that you pasted on to my Userpage. Since this is addressed to two other specific editors I will allow them to further address the issue. SeanNovack (talk) 19:19, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

SeanNovack, your comment to me is intellectually dishonest.

1) Putting in the correct "annual high" data under Reaganomics is not a "substantial" change, rather it is a factual correction to false, misleading information that for some reason you want to stay out in the public domain to hide the fact that Reagan had a 10.8% unemployment rate. In other words, the change is "minor" and is also historically correct. (Why do you object to facts being provided?)

Wiki Help:Editing describes:

Major Edit as:

"any change that affects the meaning of an article is major (not minor), even if the edit is a single word."

Thus, correcting false "unemployment annual high" does not change, nor affect, the "meaning of the article." Hence, as I said, my edit was not a substantial edit.

Minor edits

"... signifies that only superficial differences exist between the version with your edit and the previous version: typo corrections, formatting and presentational changes, rearranging of text without modifying content, etc. A minor edit is a version that the editor believes requires no review and could never be the subject of a dispute. The "minor edit" option is one of several options available only to registered users."

Presenting facts on Reagan's "unemployment annual high" is not something that anyone, including you, should dispute. In fact, keeping misleading, false information on Reagan's "unemployment annual high" is disputable, as I am disputing it right now.

2) You are also wrong - the link I gave above here, is not a dead link. I notice from your talk page and your edit comments that you have a habit of: falsely accusing people of vandalism and maliciously calling disparaging people names. Thus, I find it despicable that you now falsely accuse me of supplying a "dead link."

Not only did I provide a working link for you (above), I even supplied step-by-step instructions in the event someone, who is not familiar with the cite (Bureau of Labor and Statistics), could easily go to the cite and find the correct, factual, information.

3) You are also wrong as wikipedia is NOT an encyclopedia, not even close. An encyclopedia is a reference tool where people go to find information they can trust as being truthful and factual. An encyclopedia is not reference place where people refuse to let facts be presented. Unfortunately, wiki seems to be a place where facts are not always welcome.

Also unfortunate, is when people like you, here on wiki, refuse to let facts replace false information, then wiki becomes a "propaganda" cite as opposed to a reference cite for historical, factual information as an "encyclopedia."

a) Definition:

i) PROPAGANDA: misleading publicity: deceptive or distorted information that is systematically spread

Encarta ® World English Dictionary All rights reserved.

ii) FACT: something that can be shown to be true, to exist, or to have happened

Encarta ® World English Dictionary All rights reserved.

4) You wrote (above):

"If you have an issue with the facts presented then discuss them here first"

Look, I made a minor change to correct false information - which has no affect on the meaning of the article and as such, I did not, and do not have to "discuss them here first." In other words, I don't need your "permission" to let facts replace false data. I suggest you re-read the rules on editing in wiki.

Sean, I proved to you (above), and anyone reading this, that the data, which you refuse to accept, found under "Ronald Reagan" (prior to my edit) and subheading "Reaganomics" is 100% FALSE - as in NOT TRUE.

I also proved to you that the factual "annual high" unemployment rate for Reagan was 10.8% (1982) and 10.4% (1983).

Therefore, I am left to believe that you are not a spreader of fact. Rather you are a person who enjoys keeping false information in the public domain. As a result of your taking down facts and then accusing those (me and others on wiki) who supply the facts of being a "coward" or "vandalizing" and then falsely saying "you supplied a dead link" - people like you - give wiki a bad reputation.

I was trying to make wiki a better place, where accurate information can be found - but you refuse to allow that.

I am going to "edit" Ronald Reagan's page, subheading "Reaganomics" one more time, with factual information. If you insist on taking down facts, so as to leave propaganda up - I shall follow the step-by-step instructions found here> WP:TPG on editing/removing others' comments. If you persist, and continue to call me names, I will follow formal steps of dispute resolution.

To re-iterate FACTS I posted earlier:

A) WIKI: "the unemployment rate declined from 7.1% to 5.5%, hitting annual rate highs of 9.7% (1982) and 9.6% (1983) and averaging 7.5% during Reagan's administration.[116]

That sentence if factually wrong because the link, or citation [116], is NOT a link for "annual rate highs" rather it is a link whose Title is: "Annual average unemployment rate"

• KEYWORD in link's Title: "Average"
• NOTICE: the words "annual high" nor "annual rate high" are NO WHERE in the title of that link.

Sean, I intentionally made the below, (and above), step-by-step instructions very, very simple. I urge you to try again:

1) Here is my proof that the "annual rate highs" are 10.8% (1982) and 10.4% (1983)

• i) Go to: US Bureau Labor & Statistics, Link: http://www.bls.gov/data/
• a) Click on "Database & Tools" where you'll see "Data Retrieval Tools - Top Picks"
• b) Under "Top Picks" Check the box "Unemployment Rate (Seasonally Adjusted) - LNS14000000"
• c) Click "Retrieve Data"
• d) Go To "Change Output Options"
• e) Put in 1981 - 1983
• f) Click "go"
• g) You now see Title for Table:

Series ID: LNS14000000

Series Title: Unemployment Rate

Labor force status: Unemployment rate

Type of data: Percent or rate

Age: 16 years and over

• h) Below the Title in g) above is the Table which shows:

Year	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec
1981	7.5	7.4	7.4	7.2	7.5	7.5	7.2	7.4	7.6	7.9	8.3	8.5
1982	8.6	8.9	9.0	9.3	9.4	9.6	9.8	9.8	10.1	10.4	10.8	10.8
1983	10.4	10.4	10.3	10.2	10.1	10.1	9.4	9.5	9.2	8.8	8.5	8.3

2) You can clearly see, the factual "annual rate high" is, in fact, 10.8% (1982) and 10.4% (1983).

If you are still unable to follow those step-by-step instructions then feel free to go to this cite:

U.S. Department of Labor: Bureau of Labor Statistics via The Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis"

Link to cite>: ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/lf/aat1.txt

Title of Page: Employment status of the civilian non-institutional population, 1940 to date, United States Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Finally, I refuse to let false information stay on wiki page under Ronald Reagan subheading: Reaganomics. Please stop taking down my factual, historical data - or as I stated above, if you persist, and continue to call me names, I will follow formal steps of dispute resolution. WP:TPG on editing/removing others' comments.

--Keepemhonest2 (talk) 15:17, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Step one: Calm down. I did not attack you, I was stating that your edit did not meet Wikipedia standards and stated why. Step two: You need to familiarize yourself with Wikipedia policy and editing standards. If you post something factual (though the source you used went to a link that was dead and gave no information) then be sure not to post in forum style. The best thing to do is to discuss the change on the talkpage before editing, but if you don't simply chage the figures you believe to be inforrect and source your change. Extra commentary is not needed. Finally, if you feel I have mistreated you in some way, by all means feel free to report my misconduct, but I'll thank you not to fill up my talkpage with research that belongs on an article talk page. Thanks SeanNovack (talk) 19:21, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

This same message was posted to my user talk page, where I responded with the following:

Hi, thank you for joining Wikipedia! And thank you for helping to "keep us honest!" I must admit, after substantial time spent working on the Reagan article -- several years in fact -- I have not been able to dedicate myself much to the upkeep, only checking in now and again and making small edits here and there. In regard to this issue, then, I will defer to some of the more active editors of the page. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to simply be a wording/description error, and unfortunately one which I do not have much time to research and delve into.

Also, I know you are new but this is one of the many things you will learn as you continue to edit, namely that no one user operates an article; that is strictly prohibited per WP:OWN. Articles are more like community property, wherein anyone can edit, but some articles attract more regular users, usually out of personal interest.

Thanks for bringing up the issue -- hopefully someone with more time than I can see to it that it is taken care of. Thanks! Best, Happyme22 (talk) 00:56, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Happyme22 - thank you for your reply. You are correct, it is a very simple issue of "wording/description" error. I will try to edit the page again so as to supply the correct wording and correct data. --Keepemhonest2 (talk) 14:11, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

President Ronald Reagan's Children

President Ronald Reagan's Children Should Be Listed As Follows, Maureen Reagan (1941 - 2001),Michael Reagan (1945-),Christine Reagan (1947 - 1947),Patricia Ann Reagan (1952-),And Ronald Prescott Reagan (1958-),Because Everyone Seems To Forget That He Had Three Children By His First Wife Actreess Jane Wyman (1914 - 2007).Keri Nowling, Seymour,Indiana. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.174.132.172 (talk) 15:49, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Sachs paragraph

In the legacy section I removed a paragraph on the opinion of Jeffery Sachs for several reasons:

1. Per WP:WEIGHT and it's repetitive. The main criticisms of Reagan are listed in the first paragraph of the legacy section in one sentence, while this criticism takes up an entire paragraph. Moreover, its main point -- that the gap between rich and poor increased -- is already in the article, two paragraphs above this one at that. Expanding on the one point is in violation of WP:WEIGHT.

2. Its superfluous sentences leading up to the main point in the last sentence are not core to understanding the overall legacy of Ronald Reagan. There is plenty of praise and criticism to go around, but leaving America unprepared is a rather obscure argument that is not frequently made. As the "mother article" of all Reagan articles, this one should be the most general and highlight the only the most important and necessary aspects of its subject.

For those reasons I removed the paragraph. It was almost immediately reinserted by an IP with the ES: "you can't put one sentence of criticism and two paragraphs of glow and call it WEIGHT." Of course if time was taken to actually read the section, one would find it neatly balanced, presenting both sides and adhering to WP:WEIGHT. That is until the repetitive Sachs piece tilts the weight. As far as I am concerned the reasons are clear. Happyme22 (talk) 10:50, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Reagan persuaded Saudi Arabia to increase oil production,[221]

"Reagan persuaded Saudi Arabia to increase oil production,[221]" Unless there is another reference for this, the mention of Reagan should be removed. As near as I can tell the linked article does not say that Reagan influenced Saudi. Indeed, it states clearly "Oil prices collapse in mid 1980-s had to do with fundamental market factors that made it impossible to maintain the prices formed in the early 1980-s. But the scope and timeframe of the collapse can be comprehended in the political context only." (Interestingly, the citation number in the Cold War article is the same as this: 221) Mcdruid (talk) 09:40, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Governor of California section

As part of this section, the following statement appears: "Shortly after the beginning of his term, Reagan tested the presidential waters in 1968 as part of a "Stop Nixon" movement, hoping to cut into Nixon's Southern support[70]" However, this is misleading. According the Reagan's biography, "An American Life", pages 176-178, Reagan did not want to be a Presidential candidate. In fact, he was only a 'favorite-son' candidate. And it was not until after he stated the delegates should go to Nixon at the convention that he was informed by Rockefeller, "You didn't get as many votes as we counted on; we thought you'd stop Nixon for us." (Same source, page 178). So stating Reagan was a part of the "Stop Nixon" movement is misleading. Rather, he was urged to run as a favorite-son candidate, and the Rockefeller campaign felt this could help their candidate to win the nomination as a by product. Thoughts? --Scuba31 (talk) 05:24, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 13 January 2012

I request the following be added to information regarding President Ronald Reagan's Presidency 1984-1989: President Ronald Reagan's Inaugural Parade was cancelled due to extreme cold weather. Therefore, an Inaugural Band Concert was held at the Capital Centre in Landover, Maryland on January 21, 1985.

Background: I was a member of the U.S. Navy Presidential Honor Guard 1983-1985 and participated in this particular event. During rehearsals in the weeks prior to the Presidential Inauguration, it became very clear that inaugural events (i.e. swearing in, parade, etc.) could not be held outdoors due to the extreme cold weather. The venue was changed to the Capital Centre in Maryland, where I performed the duties of usher. Here is a link to a video of the event: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDanjcWjkg

I wish only to ensure accuracy in reporting. Thank you.

DaddyO64 (talk) 18:14, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

N Not done, covered already in Second inauguration of Ronald Reagan--Jac16888 ^Talk 17:45, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

end of first marriage

I hesitate to make a change to a FA without knowing all the details, but I cannot find a previous discussion on this issue, so I'll bring it up. In the infobox, Reagan's first marriage shows as ended in 1948, but in the text, it clearly says the divorce was not finalised until 1949. The infobox for his first wife's article shows 1949 as the end date. Is there some consensus on this issue or simply an error? Griffinofwales (talk) Simple English Wikipedia - Come and join! 16:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

It is 1949, that's an error. Thanks! Happyme22 (talk) 03:05, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Two terms as president

That Reagan served two terms is a significant fact, the more so after defeating Jimmy Carter who served only one. It should be mentioned in the lede IMO.

Bill Clinton mentions his two terms in the lede, as does George W. Bush. George H. W. Bush mentions in the lede that he was a one term president, as does the lede for Jimmy Carter. What is the difference for Reagan? MathewTownsend (talk) 03:13, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

IMO it doesn't need to be outright stated; any reader who reads the lead will see that Reagan served two terms. It says in the third paragraph, "His second term was primarily marked..." IMO, it's redundant. Happyme22 (talk) 03:17, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Many, many readers are like me. We skim. That's why most important facts should "jump out". I've read the article pretty closely, but I didn't see that in the lede. It's "buried". The reader shouldn't have to "infer", IMO. MathewTownsend (talk) 03:24, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

I just checked out the Clinton article, and it doesn't explicitly say anywhere in the lead that he was a two term president. Nor does it for Richard Nixon. I think that for skimmers the first sentence of this article which gives the dates of Reagan's presidency (1981-1989) is a clue that he was a two-term president. Happyme22 (talk) 06:30, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

• Bill Clinton lede: "Two years later, the re-elected Clinton became the first member of the Democratic Party since Franklin D. Roosevelt to win a second full term as president."
• Richard Nixon lede: "He was reelected by a landslide in 1972." (This starts new paragraph for emphasis): "Nixon's second term saw an Arab oil embargo, the resignation of his vice president, Spiro Agnew, and a continuing series of revelations ..."
• I think number of terms is one of the important facts that should be mentioned about every president in the lede. Also, what is accomplished in each term.
• Non Americans and others (kids) may not automatically know that the standard American presidential term is four years, (may not get the "clue") and therefore know to calculate the number of terms of a given president by dividing the years in office by four to get the answer. Especially since other articles on presidents explicitly state the number of terms clearly. MathewTownsend (talk) 12:46, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

"His second term was primarily marked by foreign matters, such as the ending of the Cold War, the 1986 bombing of Libya, and the revelation of the Iran-Contra affair. ..." explicitly states the number of terms clearly. The fact that a careless reader skimming the article might not see every possibly important fact doesn't mean we need to print it in bold red with flashing arrows pointing to it. And if a reader doesn't know the length of a term, highlighting the number of terms served is fairly pointless; in that case, the number of years served – easily discernable from the opening sentence – conveys more useful information. Fat&Happy (talk) 18:39, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Reagan & Auschwitz

I removed a poorly sourced section yesterday[1] that was put back in and removed again by me today. Again, there's one source cited for this information and it's by an opinion writer from a book that at best would be considered a polemic (earlier on the same page it has similar poorly sourced tabloid journalism claims of Reagan meeting Nacy Reagan because of reported sexual prowess, I am GREATLY paraphrasing). This book has no footnotes or sources. The editor who put it back said there were sources, but didn't cite them.

Cockburn is a tertiary source and as such his secondary sources should be checked and there are none. Recently Ronald Reagan Jr talked about it on his talk show and makes reference to his father showing him the unedited Auschwitz footage. He makes no reference to his father claiming to have shot the film, he said he had the film which, given Reagan's wartime duties, makes sense. There's also an American Thinker story which addresses and purports to refute the controversy. However, American Thinker is unabashedly conservative, not something I would cite in any article and while some secondary sources are listed in the article not all of them are. I did some searching to find the secondary sources for Cockburn's claim and couldn't find any except possibly this Washington Post artice which is a pay-through. Until a reliable source is found for this claim, it shouldn't appear in the article, particularly given its nature (the POTUS lying about his military service). --WGFinley (talk) 17:54, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

After doing some of my own research on the subject, I have to concur with the above-noted observation. In his book, Turmoil and triumph: my years as secretary of state, George Shultz explicitly debunks this claim and asserts that President Reagan made no such comment concerning his presence at Auschwitz. During the latter part of WW II, Reagan's job involved viewing war footage shot by cameramen and war correspondents. Among the reels was footage from Auschwitz that Reagan kept (against regulations) for the purpose of showing it to others who questioned the events of the Holocaust and the horrors of the camps. He relayed this to Shamir at a dinner. Shamir, was deeply moved and relayed the story to Israeli press. American press garbled the translation and erroneously reported that Reagan had said that he was in Auschwitz. According to Shultz, who had a first hand account of the story, Reagan made no such assertion and claims attributed to him concerning his presence at Auschwitz are outright falsehoods. Implying that the former president was either a liar or could not distinguish between reality and fantasy is an exceptional claim that requires exceptional sources. This is especially true since there are better sources that explicitly debunk the Auschwitz claim.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 16:13, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Joan Didion calls "Secretary Shultz's version of this story ... a little wishful." She quotes extensively from Cannon, author of one book I cited, to back that up. It turns out he was one of the first English language reporters to write about this. Reagan told the same story to Simon Wiesenthal and Rabbi Marvin Hier. Also, "Ed Walsh, then The Washington Post correspondent in Jerusalem, was able to confirm the accuracy of the Ma'ariv report with Dan Meridor, the Israeli cabinet secretary." In full reverse, "Reagan had told Baker that 'a Jewish friend' had questioned him about the accuracy of the death camp reports a year or two later. Reagan had shown him a copy of the film. I put this in a column that concluded with the reservations that I hold today: How could Shamir and Wiesenthal, fluent in English and known for their grasp of detail, have misunderstood so completely what Reagan said to them in two different meetings more than two months apart? What Jew would doubt the existence of the Holocaust?" - http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1998/mar/05/the-lion-king-an-exchange/?pagination=false -Attleboro (talk) 20:44, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Well seeing as there are differing opinions as to what actually happened, the obvious solution is to fuse the two together. I propose the following:

Reagan never left the United States during the war, though he kept a film reel, obtained while in the service, depicting the liberation of Auschwitz, as he believed that someday doubts would arise as to whether the Holocaust had occurred. It has been alleged that he was overheard telling Israeli foreign minister Yitzhak Shamir in 1983 that he had filmed that footage himself and helped liberate Auschwitz, though this purported conversation was disputed by Secretary of State George Shultz.

Seeing as consensus seems to agree that Cockburn is not a reliable source, we should remove him as a source and attribute it instead to Lou Cannon and Schaller. I think that encompasses the arguments of both sides nicely. Happyme22 (talk) 07:37, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Your suggestion sounds quite reasonable.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 06:06, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Spouse(s)

Spouse(s) Jane Wyman (1940–1949) Nancy Davis (1952–2004)

I wanted to request an edit for Nancy Davis under the spouse section on Ronald Reagan's page. She did not pass away in 2004, only he did. She celebrated her 90th birthday last summer and I see no news that she has passed away since. Thanks! Evilyorkies (talk) 17:59, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Nor was she born in 1952, the year she and Reagan were married; for that matter, his first wife, Jane Wyman, did not die in 1949 at the age of nine either... Fat&Happy (talk) 23:04, 20 February 2012 (UTC)