Talk:Roozonline

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This article seems to be a piece of propaganda probably created by the Iranian government, rather than a proper Wikepedia entry. I urge the editors to either deleate this page, or to make some substantial changes to it.

Controversy[edit]

I moved this here:

  • Critics of the website argue that since it is funded by government of the Netherlands, it works in the interest of that nation, and does not represent factual accuracy of the events.[1]
  • In November 2006, Hossein Derakhshan, a founding member and technical director of the website, briefly discontinued his cooperation resulting the website to shut down. He stated this was in response to the non-payment of his dues, as a result of accusations of having the same viewpoints as the government of Iran.[2]

Looks like original research based on a post on Hoder's blog. The other "source" was http://www.tik.ir which seems to be down.

Oh and just because the newspaper may have received funding from a organization that receives fundings from various sources, including the dutch government, it doesn't make it related to Netherlands! --Rayis 13:00, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

since hoder.com is the official weblog of derakshan, I think it can be used as a source, I think avraham would know if thats the case? regarding dead link, ill look for another later.--Gerash77 14:11, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

On that post he is basically ranting that he didn't get paid and he was accused of something. Do you really think this is controversial enough to be included on Wikipedia? My idea was that a blog is a blog at the end of the day and it is not reliable nor in this case that important. This is separate from the other "controversy" which again seems to be really not notable enough --Rayis 14:33, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

ّI dont think you have followed the issue. This incident closed the website for a week during last election, widely reported by kayhan and others critics, considering it is supposedly a pro website by popular journalists.--Gerash77 14:59, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I think I may have heard about something or another but if you are right then finding sources shouldn't be a problem --Rayis 15:12, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
No, I am quoting Derakhshan from his own website, hence a reliable source. I am not sure why are you trying to suppress this information, but I'll add more sources anyway.--Gerash77 03:59, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I do not speak Farsi, but in general, blogs are usually not considered reliable sources. Also, regarding the Netherlands stub tag, I believe that is a stretch. Here we have two steps between the Dutch governement and Rooz. Hamas, for example, is funded directly by the government of Iran. Does that make Hamas Iranian enough for a tag on the article? I don't think so. It's even more tenuous here. -- Avi 05:18, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

and what if it is the website of the person that we are quoting? for example quoting a celeb from her own website, seems to be a perfectly fine.--Gerash77 07:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Gerash, you seem to be a little confused by this whole adding sources thing. The sentence which you have given 7 sources is "it works in the interest of that nation, and does not represent factual accuracy of the events." That is a serious accusation. Now can you please tell me where on hoder's post or infact any of those sources it says that? direct quotes with links will be greatly appreciated --Rayis 09:15, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

The stuff about my resolved financial dispute is misrepresented here and I don't think it has any relevance to Rooz in an encyclopaedia. The dispute was merely an employment issue and was nothing of political or ideological nature. This part should be removed.--Hoder 10:33, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

funding revisited[edit]

what exactly are you asking? are you claiming hivos isn't backing the group. That is false. its 730,000 euro budget: [1] Nevertheless, I said "critics argue", so what exactly do you want me to cite? when the the site operates say it is funded by Holland, why are you trying to deny this is beyond me:

بر خلاف نظر جنابعالی، من "روز" و"زمانه" را مشمول ادعای براندازانه نمی​دانم. چون از ابتدا در جریان بودجه ماخوذه از پارلمان هلند بوده​ام، جزئیاتش را هم می​دانم. [2]

the critics say its run by hivos, and it is trying to encourage western policies -

sajjadi:

بنده چگونه بايد صلح دوستی شما را باور کنم وقتی می بينم مسئوليت در سايتی را داريد (روز نت) که از بودجه پارلمان هلند تغذيه شده و کاريکاتوريست آن در کمال بی پروائی و در موقعيتی که ايران شريرانه از جانب ايالات متحده متهم به دخالت و شرارت در امور داخلی عراق و دست داشتن در بمب گذاری ها و ترور ها می شود و مترصد اندک بهانه جهت تهاجم محکمه پسند! به ايران است [3]

در سايت اينترنتی روز كه از جانب پارلمان هلند حمايت می‌شود و مجموعاً اين سايت را بمنظور احراز شرايط تصدی تلويزيون ماهواره‌ای مصوب پارلمان هلند آرايش كرده اند می‌بينيم خط مشی مقالات سردبيری به وضوح درصدد القای ناگريزی ايران به دست كشيدن از فناوری هسته‌ای اش، می‌پرداز [4]


farahani:

روزنامه ی هلندی NRC - Handelsblad در 16 سپتامبر سال جاری گزارشی جنجالی منتشر کرد هلند به عوامل سازمان سیا پول داده است تا در ایران انقلاب راه بیندازند با پول ِکلانی که هلند اختصاص داده است فعلن چند سایت اینترنتی-روز آنلاین- و یک رادیو-رادیو زمانه- ایجاد شده سازمان خانه آزادی که در سال 2003 از حمله آمریکا به عراق جانبداری می کرد

hence, this is what the critics say. If you have any response from them, add them, and if you don't don't remove it. if you think the passage aint neutral, tag it. im getting tired over this nonsense--Gerash77 10:17, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Would you kindly provide translations for these too? most seem to be talking about the dutch parliament and the last one something about CIA involvement. Please see [[5]] --Rayis 10:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
u can read persian urself i am sure. it seems you are just trying to get rid of critics pov for whatever reason. even if its not verifiable to you, tag it. don't remove the info.--Gerash77 10:46, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Focusing on what it is in English first, from what the organization's website claims, we can't just accept how critics word it. See below for what I mean. --Rayis 10:50, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

What Hivos claims[edit]

"Hivos' network embraces 31 countries and over 750 partner organisations. In the course of 2005 Hivos disbursed more than 76 million euro as grants or loans. These funds were provided by the Dutch government, the EU, donors and savers, and private institutions."

Therefore, we can't take this out of context and only focus on that it receives fundings from the dutch government. It says that in 2005, it had various sources of funds, including all those above.

This means that any other claims should be stated as allegations and they need attribution of who exactly claims what. --Rayis 10:48, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

if that is so, add it to response to criticism!--Gerash77 10:50, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Would you stop blindly reverting my edits?! Sort out the references first, separate them and identify who is the author and what they claim --Rayis 10:53, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
"I" am blindly reverting edits? Jesus! You are an amazing person, you know that?!--Gerash77 10:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. Yes it is a blind revert because you didn't address any of my concerns which I had raised in talk but don't worry, as long as we can separate who is claiming what, we can develop on it --Rayis 10:57, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
You are welcome.--Gerash77 10:58, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Now get on with it :) --Rayis 10:59, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
After this tense hour over two sentences, I feel hungry. Please work on it while I head to coffee shop!--Gerash77 11:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
But first I have to make sure you won't be reverting, as I keep working on it.--Gerash77 12:46, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Go a head, you are the only one using popup tools to revert contributions, --Rayis 12:50, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
What I meant was forcefully making sure of that by blocking you, but it seems you are just one lucky individual!--Gerash77 14:08, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Guys! The main text itself is only three lines while criticism is more than that! It`s a bit funny and cheap to include stuff like the problem of Derakhshan and Rooz! Also why do we assume Rooz should represent the Iranian interests? or Dutch interests? Which funding source can you recommend to Rooz? If they get money from Iran, you would say they are agents of Islamic republic! If they get money from EU, people would say they are agents of EU! Honestly, an ordinary Iranian writer can hardly manage to pay for a flight ticket to Europe! How do you expect them to work without using any funding source???! Almost all Iranian media inside and outside of Iran are either funded by Islamic republic or by international organizations and the west. The mere fact that where the funding comes from does not mean they are biased. You need to offer explicit examples. If you are fan of criticising, then I recommend you to go to BBC and CNN page on wikipedia (and other rich news agencies) and add a section on their biased addressing of Iran. Let`s our people (with ANY beliefs) talk freely without fear of being labeled. Honestly neither Islamic republic nor opposition groups have been capable of publishing one single newspaper that can compete with wellknown western newspapers. Let`s be positive on eachother irrespective of our political inclinations. Sina Kardar 12:10, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Here's a copy/paste of Hoder's comment above (emphasis added by me) - it's July 2007, i.e. after 12 May 2007.
The stuff about my resolved financial dispute is misrepresented here and I don't think it has any relevance to Rooz in an encyclopaedia. The dispute was merely an employment issue and was nothing of political or ideological nature. This part should be removed.--Hoder 10:33, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
At the moment 13:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC) (latest info on Hoder wikipedia entry) is that Hoder is presumably still under arrest for (presumably) his political opinions/blogging activity, so unless he has internet access from prison, he cannot help clean up here until he gets out. Boud (talk) 13:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
    • ^ Cite error: The named reference saj was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
    • ^ Cite error: The named reference hoder was invoked but never defined (see the help page).