Talk:Royal Tank Regiment

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Accurate?[edit]

"The Royal Tank Regiment is itself a regiment of the British Army, part of the Royal Armoured Corps. However, as a result of the above, both its "battalions" are formally titled regiments. This can cause some confusion, with the regiment currently being composed of two regiments."

Are you sure this is correct? While the units maybe called 1RTR, 2RTR etc it stands for the 1st battalion the Royal Tank Regiment etc per the order of battle by Joslen.EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 19:00, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

1RTR does NOT stand for "1st Battalion the Royal Tank Regiment" it does stand for "1st Royal Tank Regiment", a regiment in the Royal Tank Regiment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.178.77.193 (talk) 13:00, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

The word "regiment" seems to be used to refer to the numbered units within the RTR. eg "On 23 May 1940, the Regiment landed at Cherbourg" and "The 1st Royal Tank Regiment is a result of the amalgamation of four regiments: 1, 4, 7 and 8 RTR". GraemeLeggett (talk) 17:27, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Hi, per Joslen's Orders of Battle p. 595:
"Royal Tank Regiment ( R Tks):
Battalions-
1st: [various page references]
2nd: [various page references]" etc.
The units are refered to within the text as 1 R Tks, and within other texts as 1 RTR etc. The same way of writing out the unit names can also be seen in the infantry i.e. 1 RB or 1st Rifle Brigade, meaning 1st Battalion etc.
9 RTR newsletter also notes that it was a battalion within the regiment along with the RTR website
The national archives notes a unit being redesignated as the 42nd battalion of the Royal Tank Regiment
John Buckley (British Armour in the Normandy Campaign) and Ludovic Fortin (British Tanks in Normandy) refer to the various RTR units as battalions of the regimentEnigmaMcmxc (talk) 19:00, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
My understanding (from hazy memory) is that the terminology explicitly switched sometime in the early 1940s - they were originally battalions of the Tank Corps, then RTC, then RTR, and at some point the battalion/company terminology switched to regiment/squadron, using the cavalry terms rather than the infantry ones. No sources to hand, though. Andrew Gray (talk) 18:22, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
That would explain the wording on the RTR website when compared to every WW2 source i have. If that could be sourced, it would be a nice addition to the article i think.EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 19:00, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
A flick through British and Commonwealth Armoured Formations 1919-46 turns up these: "Experimental Mechanized Force...following units: 3rd Bn Royal Tank Corps 5th Bn..." "(referring to effects of Army Order 58 of 1939) All the units of the Royal Tank Corps, ...becoming battalions (later re-named 'regiments') of the Royal Tank Regiment", "[on the formation of the RAC] The Royal Tank Corps...were rewarded (as they saw it) by being reduced from a Corps to a Regiment..." (quoting The Royal Armoured Corps (1942) "[RAC badge]..was not much worn until the infantry battalions were converted to numbered RAC regiments". GraemeLeggett (talk) 20:09, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
"By 1939 the Mobile division, Army Tank battalions, and mechaized cavalry regiments ..." (French, Raising Churchill's Army, p. 34)
"The 7th Royal Tank Regiment, one of the units engaged at Arras, later moved out to the Middle East with Mark II 'Matilda' Infantry tanks. The battalion's training the desert ...." (Place, Military Training the British Army, 1940-1944 from Dunkirk to D-Day, p. 132)
British Army website refers to them as battalions, although notes "battalions were redesignated as regiments in 1945"
Various IWM hits, where the term battalion is used: 1 RTR, 2 RTR, 3 RTR, 4 RTR, 5 RTR, 6 RTR (Using the term battalion in the 1950s), 7 RTR (Likewise showing usage of the term in the 50s), 9 RTR, 43rd, 45th, 48th, 49th, 50th, and 51st
To note, i am not suggesting a title change or overall of how the RTR is referred to all. All sources are in concensus that it is 1 RTR etc. However, there are enough sources out there that show and highlight that - during the Second World War at least - the RTR was made up of various battalions not regiments within a regiment.EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 23:42, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

The website mentioned above is the Regiment Association site NOT a British Army site. The British Army site lists both the 1RTR and the 2RTR as regiments. For once I think the Wikipedia article gives an accurate description of the Regiments naming and organisation. 86.178.77.193 (talk) 12:57, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Armoured Cars, Dummy Tanks and Scorpions[edit]

Just did a major revision of the site, rearranged paragraphs in date order, corrected a few points, added some info but mainly just reorganised how info is shown.

Just how much information should be provided on the Armoured Car Companies? The most obvious thing to include is a list of the Yeomanry Regts that converted. However, I don't want to put too much info in as it would be straying away from the subject - after all the page is about the RTR and the Armoured cars were RTC (although it seems that the Westminster Dragoons enjoyed 5 months in the RTR)

During the north african campaign, a large number of dummy tanks were built as part of the plan to deceive the axis forces as to the whereabouts of allied armour. These tanks were grouped into Regiments - the wiki article mentions the creation of 4 such units in 1941, without saying what the unit designations were. One source lists 10 Regiments and suggests that they were part of the RTR; another source confirms the id of 3 units and says they were in the 74th Armoured (Tank?) Bde in October 1942. If these truly were in the RTR, I would really appreciate some good sources.

Finally, saw a snippet that suggested the Scorpion Regt that was formed in 1943 was RTR. Regiments.org says RAC, but I've learnt from experience that its not too wise to overly rely on it.Glevum (talk) 02:45, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

The Colonel Commandant of The Royal tank regiment is Lieutenant General CM Deverell MBE not Brigadier Allison he is a Deputy Colonel Commandant — Preceding unsigned comment added by Colin001 (talkcontribs) 09:07, 1 December 2014 (UTC)