Talk:Rudolf Diesel
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[edit] On Diesel's death
We look at him like a great figure, but just like all of us he had some problems. With all his breakdowns in the past, it is lead to believe he killed himself by jumping off the ship. Have a nice swim Rudolf!
- I read he was probably killed by coal magnates, his business rivals. Brand 18:41, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Patent dates
I've added a link to the US patent office web page, which includes images of his original patents submitted to the office in 1895. In the specifications, Rudolf reviews all former patent applications and specifies the dates. This contradicts what is currently specified in this article.
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- The article on Herbert Akroyd Stuart has a section about claims that the Akroyd Stuart compression ignition engine predated that of Rudolf Diesel's, which may be copied over here in full. LouisBB 14:11, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Diesel cheaper than gas?
"The diesel engine has the benefit of running on fuel which is less expensive then gasoline" It hasn't been in the US for a few years now, what shall we do about this part of the article? M855GT (talk) 08:00, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
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- My bad, I overwrote an edit that was accurate (Diesel is more fuel efficient)--Work permit (talk) 00:22, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Just a moment...
Peanut oil, according to at least one reference cited in this very article (the hempcar.org one), was the fuel for the first working Diesel engine. I don't think that the article reflects this, as it goes so far as to say that the primary fuel for the Diesel engine is Petrodiesel, not mentioning that it was not so for about twenty years after the invention was first demonstrated successfully. [unsigned]
- Actually, Rudolf Diesel invented his engine to run on vegetable oil, not peanut oil.
- Can someone help me? I personally spoke with Christiana, Rudolf Diesel's great niece. She said he died in bed, that he protested diesel engines being used in war machines. Is there an expert out there whom I can speak with to get Christiana's information confirmed? She is private but will speak about these facts if able to speak to her great-uncle's protestations of using diesel engines in war. She lives in California. M RammageNyliramneaj (talk) 01:07, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] I think there is something wrong here
"Diesel began building a prototype engine, which was ready for testing by July 1893. The engine was fueled by powdered coal injected with compressed air. This machine, a single 10-foot(3 m) iron cylinder with a flywheel at its base, achieved a compression of 80 atmospheres (8100 kPa). After a nearly fatal explosion, the exploding ammonia engine was strictly limited by his boss Linde. Due to these imposed limits, the machine would not power itself, but it did prove that one did not need a spark to have internal combustion." Is "exploding ammonia engine" correct?
- There is confusion here between two different engines. The ammonia engine was an external combustion engine. The coal dust engine was an internal combustion engine. I forget the timeline and details but Grosser's book mentions both efforts. — ¾-10 02:13, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
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- I see that the paragraph in question apparently has been fixed since the original note was written. — ¾-10 02:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] I think this was meant to be in the discussion section
Before you step off into Diesel's last few weeks of his life you must remember two things; there was only one thing Diesel cared enough about to die for; fuel efficiency. The second thing is; Diesel was working for Linde when he invented his engine; the engine may bear his name, but the legal position over who "owned" the Diesel engine is not at all simple.
Whatever happened in 1913 it has fit with the pattern of the man. Most of the speculations are people who either never knew Diesel, or didn't read the rest of the book.
There is an interesting element to this story that might be investigated; Diesel "disappeared in 1913" and Carl Benz launched the first Diesel truck "before World War 1"
Carl Benz had a vested interest in helping the oil industry dispose of the waste by-products left over from making petrol for their cars. Benz's partner Daimler had been technical director to Otto, and it was unlikely that Daimler would ditch the Otto engine for the Diesel.
But the Otto engine demanded highly refined fuels, and that fuel supply was a severe limit on the sales of their Otto engined cars. Benz needed a means to dispose of the waste, and the Diesel engine might be turned into an ideal waste disposal unit. A Diesel truck would be ideal. But the pure Diesel engine would be more than was required for waste disposal.
Because of the legal position with Linde, it may be possible that Benz could do a deal with Linde / MAN, behind Diesel's back; not involve Diesel, or even tell him; to simplify the Diesel engine to their own design and commercial ends.
If this was the case, such a resulting redesign would be too much for Diesel to bear; it would the destruction of his life's work to allow the Otto engine to waste more fuel, rather than save fuel. That would be a reason for him to jump off the ship.
There are suggestion that Diesel went mad, but consider the legal position; he may have been forbidden by his contracts with Linde to discuss any of this outside the company. Suddenly Diesel's mutterings of "secret enemies" is not madness, but simply terms of employment.
By all means consider the other speculations; but this is the nearest one that fits Diesel the man. The question can only be resolved if there is any documentary evidence of a deal between Benz and Linde; between 1912 and 1913, to change the specification of the Diesel engine, and without Rudolph Diesel's agreement. If such a deal took place, and researchers of Benz or Linde have seen documentary evidence; you may finally solve the puzzle of what really happened on the ship.
Back to the other speculations;
[Comment added by Northnomad on 2007-04-04. Abrupt cut-off at semicolon reflects original comment; it ended there.]
[edit] Early life
An unknown editor on the 7th March has wiped out a chunk of his early life, which was never reinstated. There is no harm in talking about his schooling in France, and his move to London. I shall reinstate this part of the story, which is interesting, and the article is not too long. The last three paragraphs here will fit better under the next heading.LouisBB (talk) 22:31, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Errors
I think this section is gibberish:
"Diesel knew three rules on heat engine efficiency that the expansion of the gas was the key to fuel efficiency had limited the fuel efficiency of his engine. That was the key to Diesel's engine patents; he won his patent on the grounds of liberating the engine from limits to its fuel efficiency. His answer was - only add the fuel when you want to ignite it. With that simple leap of thinking there is suddenly no mechanical limit to the theoretical efficiency."
- What are these 3 rules?
- All heat engines are limited in thermal efficiency by the Carnot cycle. The maximum theoretical thermal efficiency is related to the difference in the absolute temperatures of the working fluid at the beginning and end of the stroke. Biscuittin (talk) 21:47, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
No responses received, so I have removed the offending section. Biscuittin (talk) 17:40, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Peanut Oil: probably Urban legend
The article reads:
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- Diesel was especially interested in using coal dust or vegetable oil as fuel, his engine in fact ran on peanut oil.
According to the German Article on Diesel, he was indeed interested in alternative fuels; however, the German version says that actual experiments with vegetable oils such as peanut ols are an urban legend. Such experiments would have been illogical, bevause peanut oil was at that time many times more expensive than mineral fuels.
Could someone check that? --82.113.121.16 (talk) (Joise) —Preceding comment was added at 21:13, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
- There is also a discussion on this fact on the German article. And its told that the French article states that Diesel was using biofuel at the expo in 1900. Yet, they are all asking for proof. --7Piguine (talk) 09:16, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] check this
"Let’s first rewind and go back to the beginning of the 1900s where Dr Rudolf Diesel has just invented the diesel engine and is displaying it at the Paris exhibition. Sat right there is the mother of all diesel engines happily chugging away running on peanut oil! Rudolf had designed the Diesel engine to be run a variety of fuels and during his Paris speech said, "the diesel engine can be fed with vegetable oils and will help considerably in the development of the agriculture of the countries which use it." Sounds good for developing countries but not so good for the petroleum industry. A few years later and Rudolf Diesel’s body is found drifting face down in the English Channel. After holding secret talks with the UK navy about fitting diesel engines into their submarine fleet Rudolf Diesel was killed by the French to stop his diesel technology being fitted into submarines over the world, nothing new there then! After Diesel’s death the petroleum industry capitalised on the diesel engine by naming one of their crappy by-products of petroleum distillation ‘diesel fuel’. That’s how dirty diesel fuel has come to be the fuel for diesel engines." — From http://www.schnews.org.uk/diyguide/howtomakebiodiesel.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.166.49.67 (talk) 21:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- Grosser's biography says that Diesel was depressed by his debts, that he had been reading some dark and depressing philosophy, and that he put his affairs in order with his son before getting on the boat (a sign of suicide plans). In this telling it sounds like a true suicide. However, the conspiracy theories can never be proved wrong, either. If anyone did kill Rudolf Diesel in 1913 in order to try to stifle or change the usage of diesel engines or their choice of fuels, then they were about a decade too late. By 1913 the technology was already way outside of any one person's control. And the proliferation of motorships (including submarines) was already inevitable. So a homicide (if true) was foolish and futile. Currently the article does not mention any of these things (neither Grosser's details nor conspiracy theories). Maybe it should briefly mention each in a neutral manner. — ¾-10 03:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- Describing the fuel as, "Dirty Diesel Fuel" sounds like you are trying to make an envronmental statement in a place where it doesn't belong. Whilst anyone would agree that diesel engines used to be synonymous with 'dirty, noisy and smelly', those adjectives cannot be applied to modern diesel engines that are kept properly serviced. In fact the most modern of engines don't even emit any black smoke recogniseable of older engines under any conditions. In vehicle testing stations they have to use much more sensitive equipment to detect the emissions than are necesary with petrol engines. It was also necesary to (controversially) test diesels at full throttle to get anything capable of being measured. Petrol engines, on the other hand, produce easily detectable polutants at idle. 20.133.0.13 (talk) 13:59, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Date of death
If the last time he was ever seen alive was 10 pm on 29 September, why are we saying he died on 30 September? We shouldn't be guessing whether he died before or after midnight. I'm changing it. -- JackofOz (talk) 02:25, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Diesel's Nationality
Although Diesel spent most of his life working in Germany, he was born a Frenchman in Paris. There is no evidence that he ever changed his nationality and was thus French when he invented his engine. 20.133.0.13 (talk) 13:49, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
- We need a source to claim whether he was legally a German or French national. The article on French nationality law seems to hint that in 1858 his birth in Paris, although to foreign parents, in itself would have given him French nationality. (Today it would not.) German nationality law back then would have viewed him as having German nationality. He therefore could have claimed both nationalities. (What relationship that would have to either French or German citizenship at that time is another question, one for lawyers to sort out.) Grosser (1978) states that Diesel was very proud to consider himself a cosmopolitan citizen of the world. Diesel would probably not enjoy reading about himself as either "a German inventor" or "a French inventor". He would have emphasized his work, not his nationality. Encarta calls him "German". Wikipedia really shouldn't call him either German or French without sourcing it. Maybe "French-born of German parents" is best, if putting his nationality in the lede is insisted upon. I would say, simply omit it from the lede. — ¾-10 01:24, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Social theorist
In the article about the diesel engine it is written that he "was also a well-respected thermal engineer and a social theorist" and his inventions "were initially motivated by the inventor's concept of sociological needs".
Because they did not go further into it in that article, as it shouldn't, I read this article to find out what those social theories were; but I can see no single mention of these aspects of his life in this article.
Obviously he is most well known for his inventions, but maybe someone could add at least a little bit about this other aspect of his life?
85.225.176.180 (talk) 15:50, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
