Talk:Russian boxing

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The rate at the quality scale[edit]

hid thread started by checkuser confirmed sockpuppet of User:M.V.E.i.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


Sorry but the article is big enough, it's not a start anymore.

Yes it has no English references but: 1. It all was referenced and translated. I sat the whole day and made shure every claim has a source, I brought the quote, and translated the quote. 2. The article is to big to be a start.

It's not a FA, not a GA, and not an A. But it's for shure a C. Kostan1 (talk) 13:05, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment is not the about length of the article but about it's quality, and currently there is not a single source accessible to the majority of readers of editors on the English wikipedia. I there fore agree with Bradford that it is not yet a c-class article. Please look at the definition of the different classes and examples here --Nate1481(t/c) 13:14, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Compare to russian version[edit]

On the russian wikipedia, this article is just a stub made by copying a dictionary. Would it be so because the russian wiki editors are actually able to read the references? --Cubbi (talk) 22:51, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

hid thread started by checkuser confirmed sockpuppet of User:M.V.E.i.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The Russian Wikipedia unfortunately has alot of problems. One of them is the huge number of stubs. There are alot of cases there when an article is created, and once it's created as a stub it stays like that because the logic is "It exists? Great! Thats it". And I translated the articles in the references, so now all can read the references. Kostan1 (talk) 22:39, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Human rights in the Soviet Union, VC CSKA Moscow, are examples of important articles being stubs there. I hope in the future the Russian Wikipedia will improve more fast. Another point, which is positive, only few russians take Wikipedia seriously. I mean, write in Russian fistfight in Google, I mean, the references I entered the article? Are simply the random first things that fell in the search results. So if that is the situation, why bother creating an article about it on Wikipedia? Also in Russia many books are uploaded free on the internet, piratley, which is a positive thing that western users might not understand becuase in the west you get to the court for such things. So again, in Russia a person looking for knowledge doesn't need Wikipedia to find the information he needs. The articles there are much better then on the English Wikipedia when it comes to controversial topics, because in Google you might get an article showing only one side, and there they bring all of the sides. The Russian Wikipedia is much more reliable then the English one. They search for truth, not concensus. Kostan1 (talk) 22:46, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A stub? Really? Not from what I see. It's an exellent article there and if even those who don't speak Russian enter there they will see that. Just for the record all I added in the History section was traslated from there. God of Sins (talk) 22:04, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It has improved since then. I was referring to this version --Cubbi (talk) 02:58, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Name of article[edit]

Why is this the only article of a foreign martial art that has its name translated into English? It seems confusing as "fist fight" is a common English term. Is it because it is better known as fistfight in America (I know I've never heard of it)? KevinKung (talk) 05:53, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Does "fistfighting" even exist as a specific Russian martial art? I have my doubts. None of the references really support it. Hohum (talk) 02:06, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was no consensus -- Aervanath (talk) 15:54, 18 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Since the article gives the Russian name for the subject, it seems more sensible for the page name to be the same, instead of common english. Hohum (talk) 17:28, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • To me and many, a fistfight is a fist fight, very common as the police know all too well, and not some old Russian ritual. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 18:11, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I don't think most English speakers could even pronounce the suggested name, let alone have even heard of it. Facts707 (talk) 01:56, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see how ability to pronounce a correct name is relevant to where an entry should be in an encyclopaedia. Should we rename "Muay Thai" to "Thumping and twisting" and "Judo" to "Throwing and gripping" just because they are more common words? "Kulachniy boy" doesn't seem difficult to pronounce anyway. Hohum (talk) 12:07, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • move To quote WP:EN Use the most commonly used English version of the name of the subject as the title of the article, as you would find it in verifiable reliable sources (for example other encyclopedias and reference works) and Names not originally in a Latin alphabet, as with Greek, Chinese or Russian, must be transliterated. The only public English-language reference cited in the article says Kulachny boi, or fist-fight, so unless there's published source that uses 'Fistfight', the article should be renamed. --Cubbi (talk) 15:13, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The only English source cited uses fist-fight; insert the hyphen if necessary, but use the English term. (The idea that this is somehow distinct from English boxing, which was bare-knuckled in the eighteenth century, is unproven.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:12, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • But we need to distinguish this sort of Russian event from ordinary everyday fist fights that happen anywhere. But "Kulachniy boy" to an English-speaker sounds like some sort of not-yet-fully-grown male human rather than a sort of fight. Try "Russian boxing"? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:44, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move to Russian fist fighting[edit]

I BOLDly moved this page to Russian fist fighting, the title I would have recommended had I gotten to the previous move discussion in time, because there seemed to be no point in leaving the article at a title that apparently dissatisfies everyone who commented in that discussion. The new title has the virtue of complying with WP:VERB's call for use of the gerund form, and the use of "Russian" in the title disambiguates from other traditions of fist fighting. I see that a previous editor is not convinced that this martial art is distinct from other fist fighting, but this article focuses specifically on the Russian tradition. If someone wants to write a broader article on fist fighting worldwide, it might be usefully placed at fist fighting or some similar name. Editors should feel free to contact me if they object to my actions. Baileypalblue (talk) 03:35, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

1. Many opposed to the move of this page, you can't just decide to move something on your own! You can't make a change apparently dissatisfies everyone who commented in that discussion.
2. Then change the title of boxing to English Boxing, because it specifically on the English tradition. Conservative revolutionarie (talk) 09:56, 18 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Baileypalblue linked BOLD, for a reason, (the original discussion was a 50/50 split parlty because they couldn't agree on a name to move it to, if you disagree it can be moved back. Personally I think this is more appropriate, as it makes it clear what the article is about. One point 2, have you read Boxing? It discusses the history from Ancient Greece to the modern day. The London Prize Ring rules and Marquess of Queensberry rules had a huge impact, but other aspects are discussed. --Nate1481 12:46, 18 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Conservative revolutionarie probably meant that besides English boxing there are Kick boxing, French boxing, Burmese boxing, Chinese boxing, Thai boxing (hmm, why isn't it on Boxing (disambiguation)?) and probably other kinds. Right now some are mentioned in the lead of Boxing and on the disambig page. Come to think of it, we might give this article a bit more attention if we add it to one of those lists. After all, Pugilism is "skill, practice, and sport of fighting with the fist" by definition, and that's exactly what Russian (or any other) fist fighting is, too. I wonder if there's a way to write a super generic Fist fighting article, which would generalize over all these global fighting styles.. surely someone must have written at least a book? --Cubbi (talk) 13:12, 18 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
1. "Many" people opposed? I count two. 2. Take up renaming other articles on their talk pages.
The unqualified term "Fistfight" and its variations are a common English term which has nothing to do with this Russian practice. Hohum (talk) 15:04, 18 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move per unanimous consensus to Fighting against Russian fists Russian boxing.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:37, 30 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Russian fist fighting → Russian boxing – Per English boxing, French boxing, Burmese boxing, Chinese boxing, Thai boxing, etc. The current name was a WP:BOLD decision by one editor, opposed by others, after a previous RM failed to gain consensus. It also does not make sense in English. If not moved to Russian boxing, it would need to be at Russian fist-fighting for grammatical reasons; "fist-fighting" here is a compound noun phrase meaning "fighting involving/with fists". The extant compound word "fistfight" already has a distinct, inapplicable meaning, namely "non-sporting, pugilistic anatagonism", so can't be used; i.e., Russian fistfighting means "brawling among Russians". Meanwhile the present title is farcically ambiguous, and not something a native English-speaker would use; Russian fist fighting means "fighting against Russian fists" or "[a] Russian fist, engaged in a fight". Also, as noted by Septentrionalis in the previous RM, " The only English source cited uses fist-fight", but that's a literal translation to which we are not bound, and "boxing" is clearly the sensible rendering.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  02:39, 23 June 2014 (UTC)  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  02:39, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Russian boxing[edit]

Now that the move is made the article needs to be gone through to change fist fighting to boxing where appropriate (some places fist fighting should be kept). Not exactly clear to me when to do that although I did change the Russian martial arts template.Peter Rehse (talk) 16:58, 30 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Russian boxers not allowed to fight in the US until 1989.[edit]

I found this article from New York Times, which talks about Professional boxers being allowed to fight in the US for the first time. https://www.nytimes.com/1989/04/18/sports/soviet-boxers-agree-to-fight-as-pros-in-us.html Might be important to the artcle.--Fruitloop11 (talk) 23:25, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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