Talk:Russians

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Former good article nominee Russians was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
November 20, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed
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Where's Lenin??[edit]

Lenin may just be the no.1 most famous Russian. He's certainly right up there. Why isn't he in the infobox? Not that I'm a fan, but I've just been going down my list of (in)famous totalitarian dictators and he seems to be the only one from the list of Big Ones not featured in the relevant ethnic group article infobox. What gives? -- Director (talk) 23:20, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Because this, this, and this. --50.46.245.232 (talk) 14:14, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
I see Lenin is back, this time joined by other questionable Russians. Confusingly, our article makes the distinction between русские and россияне, but conflates the two groups in the infobox. Is there evidence that Kasparov has any Slavic Russian ancestry? --50.46.245.232 (talk) 00:03, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
Most of people in Russia hate Lenin. 77.126.164.93 (talk) 15:35, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
Please don't speak for many. I guess most have no strong feeling to either side, but neither can be proved. It is easy, insane and unhealthy to hate distant people, gross pity if you're right, but I think you are not. - 89.110.18.225 (talk) 10:26, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Mother of Lenin was jewish woman and his father was kalmyk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.72.22.218 (talk) 18:49, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Read Vladimir Lenin#Early life. Lenin's mother was half Jewish (her father was Jewish, and her mother was Swedish-German), so Lenin was only a quarter Jewish and obviously was not religiously Jewish. Lenin's father was ethnically Kalmyk, a Tatar people, although it seems he was culturally Russian. Therefore, Lenin was half Kalmyk, quarter Jewish, quarter Swedish, and quarter German. Like the other great Soviet leader, Joseph Stalin (who was ethnically Georgian), Lenin was not ethnically Russian. 23.240.42.139 (talk) 08:07, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Lenin should be removed from the collage due lack of Russian ancestry. Khazar (talk) 02:53, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Garry Kasparov[edit]

Half Jew, half Armenian. Born in Azerbaijan and now lives n Russia, but ethnically not Russian at all. 77.126.164.93 (talk) 15:38, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes. Kasparov can only be considered Russian by citizenship. He is not an ethnic Russian. --Երևանցի talk 03:59, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Plus, Nikolai Lobachevsky is of Polish origin. Nikolai Gogol is half Polish, half Ukrainian. Both of Maria Sharapova's parents are from Belarus. --Երևանցի talk 06:06, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Dostoevsky is of "Polish origin" and he is Russian and hated Poles. If you are russophobe keep you hate somewhere else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.165.173.131 (talk) 16:48, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

If we include Gary Kasparov, we can as well include Stalin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.89.116.11 (talk) 01:55, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Remove Lenin NOW[edit]

"There has been general consensus on several talk pages not to include dictators, criminals, etc. to the picture gallery" - Talk:Austrians

For the same reason that the dictator Adolf Hitler has been barred from being included in the page on both Germans and Austrians, Valdimere Lenin must, for the sake of NPOV, be removed from the image on the page of Russians immediately. Whether you like him or not, his actions, including his use of a Coup d 'etat to secure power, have considered him to be a dictator and thus NOT ALLOWED in any collage about peoples.

Remove him now or include Hitler in the Austrians page. I hate both men but either both are presented in their respected nationalities pages or both are excused. This is the consensus of Wikipedia and ideological attachment cannot override the NPOV rules.

Lenin is not universally accepted as a dictator. And even if he was, he is nowhere close to being as negative of a historic figure as Hitler ever was. For the record, Stalin is included in the infobox of Georgians. --Երևանցի talk 06:12, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
No red herrings please. Who or what is included on the Georgians infobox is irrelevant to this page. The issue of including Lenin has been debated ad nauseum and the consensus has always been not to include him. Please go read the archived debates (see the links above). If you think you have good reasons to include Lenin and those reasons are not the same tired arguments that have consistently been defeated over and over, we can have a discussion. As it stands now, Lenin was added back into the collage without consensus and can be removed without consensus. 50.46.245.232 (talk) 15:16, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Alexander Pushkin?

Well as we here discuss, should people be defined as belonging to an ethnicity be based on some "ethno-racial" criteria. Lenin f. ex, he may not have been ethnically pure Russian Ok.. Then the question about Alexandr Pushkin should be the same, as he is included in the box, but you are aware that one of his parents was of African/Ethiopian descent, so why should he be included? As the issue with Lenin not a "pure" Russian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.89.116.11 (talk) 01:27, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Are you people that clueless about Lenin? He didn't have a single drop of recent Russian ancestry. He was Swedish, Russian Jewish, and Kalmyk/Tatar. Putting him in the collage is inappropriate considering his lack of Russian ancestry. If Lenin, or other "Russians", aren't removed soon. Then the whole collage goes down.Khazar (talk) 22:40, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Infobox collage[edit]

Russianpeople3.1.png
Jubilee Campus MMB «54 Melton Hall.jpg

This ridiculous collage illustrates the bottom end of the slippery slope that was started with this childish fad of cramming as many pictures into a single collage as can fit, to adorn the illustrate just how Great And Magnificent Our City/Nation™ Is. The Greater the Nation™ = the more tiny pictures in the collage. Except that, at no less than 32 persons (only three being women) these are not tiny anymore, but occupy a significant portion of horizontal space. Now, you can replace it with something like the photo below. No one would notice, trust me. No such user (talk) 09:22, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Good point; there shouldn't be this many people in a collage. Khazar (talk) 22:57, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

"Russians" in the collage[edit]

Seriously, why are there non-Russian people in the collage? Kasparov was Armenian-Russian Jewish, Lenin was Russian Jewish/Swedish/Kalmyk, and there's no evidence of Sharapova's Russian ancestry. Until then, the collage will not stay until it's resolved. Before one of you argues that Russian Jews are ethnic Russians, please consult the genetic studies of Ashkenazi Jews before making a wild and uneducated assumption. Khazar (talk) 22:48, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

I think we need to first clarify the definition of "Russians". As stated in the Russians#Terminology section, there are two definitions: 1) the Slavic ethnic group ("russkiye") 2) Russian citizens ("rossiyane"). In English, there is only one word for people [of all ethnicities] from Russia: Russians. For instance, French people collage includes people like Josephine Baker, an African American and Zinedine Zidane, born to Algerian parents, because the French are, primarily, a nation in a legal sense not in a cultural (ethnic) sense. If we add "nation" to the opening sentence ("Russians are a nation and an ethnic group"), it would be perfectly acceptable to include people of any origin (Armenian, Jewish or whatever). --Երևանցի talk 00:51, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
This article is clearly about an ethnicity [which in this case is Slavic Russians], not a nationality [which are citizens of the Russian federation]. Khazar (talk) 04:56, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
"This article is clearly about an ethnicity" why so? What about Poles, Czechs, Ukrainians and many other ethnic groups articles have people of clearly not of those ethnicity such as Jewish people? French people? Germans? Are those articles not about ethnic groups? There is no clear distinction between Russian ethnicity and nationality. --Երևանցի talk 05:25, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
I just read some of those articles and they mention nation, therefore creating an ambiguous article. This has nothing to do with nation. Otherwise, The population count for Russians would have to change. As for no clear distinction, how do you explain the Terminology section? Khazar (talk) 06:16, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
Support. Such Wikipedia articles are about ethnic groups ("Regions with significant populations: Russia: 111,016,896", not 143 million Russian citizens). However the Constitution of Russia stated "Everyone shall have the right to determine and declare his (her) nationality [i.e. "ethnicity" in English language]. Nobody shall be forced to determine and declare his (her) nationality". --TarzanASG (talk) 14:06, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
What you don't understand is that nationality is not the same as ethnicity definition wise. This goes for the Russian and English language so your passage of the Russian consitution isn't relevant and taked out of context. Khazar (talk) 04:56, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Genetics data[edit]

That section needs expansion because it only mentions Y-DNA and a brief statement regarding Autosomal DNA. There should be mtDNA studies mentioned as well. Khazar (talk) 01:20, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Native Y patrimonial Slavic haplogroup[edit]

The native Y patrimonial Slavic haplo group is R1a1a (that's why there are no differences between Poles, Russians, Belorussians, Slovenes, Slovaks). The latest genetic studies of Slavs are well portraited in newest book of Anatoliy Klyosov / Anatole Klyosov; Slavs... The origin of Slavs was around the Black sea (in current Ukraine - which is interesting a target for NATO invasion).