Talk:Russo-Turkish War (1676–1681)

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Comments[edit]

Too much propaganda. (unsigned by anon)05:57, 9 June 2005 81.213.13.241 (Talk)

Please be more specific, or just go ahead and rewrite it. -Irpen 06:30, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

The result of this war is Ottoman victory. Ottoman Empire captured Chyryhyn 8 years long. Petro The Great took again in second Russo Türkish War 1686 1700. We would be happy when you revert it to Ottoman victory from indecisive. Thank you i have also link with Ottoman victory Historiker123454 (talk) 09:22, 2 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ottoman Took Chyryhyn 8 years along unter 1684. İt is over time of War (1676 1681) Hakan255 (talk) 08:18, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ottoman Took Chyryhyn 8 years along until 1684. İt is over time of War (1676 1681) Hakan255 (talk) 08:21, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ottoman took Chyryhyn From 1678 until 1686 (I Corrected it) Hakan255 (talk) 08:34, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@-Irpen it's more that you are Russian. Hakan255 (talk) 23:22, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please refrain from making comments concerning the ethnicity of other editors. Consider this your only warning concerning this issue.
Also, please post a quote and page number from that "source" you posted in the article that states "Ottoman victory". --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:24, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Davies, Brian L., Warfare, state and society on the Black Sea steppe, 1500-1700, Routledge, 2007.

Page 172.


@Kansas Bear Hakan255 (talk) 16:49, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Regulation[edit]

Please edit according to the Turkish version of:

http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1676-1681_Osmanl%C4%B1-Rus_Sava%C5%9F%C4%B1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Warlordcry (talk • contribs) 15:29, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Moves?[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: nomination withdrawn. Jenks24 (talk) 15:16, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Original research by user:Karak1lc1k[edit]

Usre:Karak1lc1k has added "Decisive Ottoman victory" using this questionable source. This "source" does not state that the Russo-Turkish war 1676-81 was a Decisive Ottoman victory.
"The war of 1676–81. In 1677 a Turkish–Crimean Tatar army invaded and ravaged Right-Bank Ukraine and took the capital, Chyhyryn. The Turks' attempt to retain Chyhyryn was repelled by a Russian-Ukrainian force led by Prince G. Romodanovsky and Hetman Ivan Samoilovych (see Chyhyryn campaigns, 1677–8), and the Turks were forced to retreat. In 1681 the Ottoman Porte, the Crimean Khanate, and Muscovy signed the Treaty of Bakhchesarai, according to which Muscovy had sovereignty over the Hetman state and the Zaporizhia, both sides agreed not to colonize the Southern Ukrainian lands between the Boh River and the Dnister River for 20 years, and Turkey retained control of the southern Kyiv region, the Bratslav region, and Podilia."
Therefore, Karak11c1k's edit is original research. --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:10, 1 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It was descive Ottoman victory. Ottoman army captured Chyryn and owned it 8 years long. The Russia Tsardom captured it again in second 1686 1700 Russo Türkish war Historiker123454 (talk) 21:39, 1 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Lol you Russians want only take sources from Russians Editors. Hakan255 (talk) 13:56, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You take only sources from Russians authors also when it lies Hakan255 (talk) 13:58, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Original research by IP[edit]

An IP has added "Ottoman victory" using Online Britannica as a source, yet according to A Military History of Russia: From Ivan the Terrible to the War in Chechnya, by David R. Stone, page 41, "The indecisive Russo-Turkish War from 1676 to 1681 centered on control of the fortress of Chigririn, just west of the Dnepr River." --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:06, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Result[edit]

Hallo. I would like correct the result because there is contradiction ! Ottoman Empire won this 1676 1681 war. Russia Tsardom took Cossacks Hetman after that Sultan Mehmed Avci sent Ibrahim pasha with Ottoman Army to Chyhyryn to capture, but its failed, then the Sultan sent Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa pasha and he took finally Chyhyryn with Ottoman army. Ottoman Empire owned Chyhyryn 31 years long. As result are written Ottoman Victory on Italian, Polish, French sites or books. We were happy when you correct it. Thank you Historiker123454 (talk) 17:26, 1 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Notes 

   ^ Davies, Brian L., Warfare, state and society on the Black Sea steppe, 1500-1700, (Routledge, 2007), 160.
   ^ a b Davies, Brian L., Warfare, state and society on the Black Sea steppe, 1500-1700, 161.
   ^ Paxton, John and John Traynor, Leaders of Russia and the Soviet Union, (Taylor & Francis Books Inc., 2004), 195.


References 

   Davies, Brian L., Warfare, state and society on the Black Sea steppe, 1500-1700, Routledge, 2007.
   Paxton, John and John Traynor, Leaders of Russia and the Soviet Union, Taylor & Francis Books Inc., 2004.


http://dictionnaire.sensagent.leparisien.fr/Russo-Turkish%20War%20(1676%E2%80%931681)/en-en/

Historiker123454Historiker123454 (talk) 17:26, 1 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I see nothing that states "Ottoman victory". The website:
is a mirror site of Wikipedia. FYI, Wikipedia can not be used to reference Wikipedia.
  • David R. Stone, A Military History of Russia: From Ivan the Terrible to the War in Chechnya, (Greenwood Publishing, 2006), 41;"The indecisive Russo-Turkish War from 1676-1681 centered on the control of the fortress of Chigirin, just west of the Dnepr River." --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:39, 2 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Conflict and Conquest in the Islamic World:A Historical Encyclopedia, ed. Alexander Mikaberidze, page 771;
  • "In 1654, after a powerful Cossack uprising against Poland, Russia signed the Treaty of Pereyaslavl with the Cossacks, which granted Russia control over parts of eastern Ukraine. The Russian expansion, however, provoked a war with Poland and the Crimean khanate, supported by the Ottoman Empire. In 1672, the Ottoman army occupied parts of southern Ukraine, and a preliminary contest between Russia and the Ottoman Turks began in 1676 after the Cossack under Ivan Samoilovich, Hetman of the Left-Bank Ukraine, asked for Russian assistance against the Turks, who supported his rival Hetman Petro Doroshenko. The Russian army, supported by Ukranian allies, captured the Cossack capital of Chyhyryn in 1676. The following year, a large Ottoman army, under Ibrahim Pasha, invaded Ukraine and besieged Chyhyryn, although a Russian attack soon forced the Ottoman army to retreat. In 1678, the Ottomans besieged Chyhyryn once again, capturing it in August. Over the next two years, the two sides limited their actions to raids and border attacks before the Treaty of Bakhchisarai, signed in 1681, established a buffer zone between the Ottoman and Russian-controlled regions of Ukraine."
Mikaberidze makes no mention of either side gaining victory. --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:56, 2 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I wrote to you that Ottoman Empire captured Chigirin in 1678 until 1712 final victory for the 1676 1681 Russo Türkish War Historiker123454 (talk) 04:11, 3 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

And your interpretation for the result of this war means nothing. Wikipedia is written using reliable secondary sources. You have provided no reliable sources stating the war was an Ottoman victory. --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:16, 3 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

When Ottoman captured Chyhyryn 31 years along after occupy then it is "Ottoman Victory" because the War ends in 1681 Hakan255 (talk) 14:32, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And apparently, you can not read English. I will post it again for you, "And your interpretation for the result of this war means nothing. Wikipedia is written using reliable secondary sources." --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:29, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Taken from above:

  • Lol you Russians want only take sources from Russians Editors. Hakan255 (talk) 13:56, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
  • You take only sources from Russians authors also when it lies Hakan255 (talk) 13:58, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
First off, I am not Russian, but thanks for your battleground comment.
Second, David R. Stone, received his Ph.D in Russian history from Yale University in 1997. And does not appear to be Russian, either. --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:56, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The link where is written Ottoman victory as result in 1676 1681 Russo Turkish War[edit]

I sent you the website again where is written it is Otomman victory

http://dictionnaire.sensagent.leparisien.fr/Russo-Turkish%20War%20(1676%E2%80%931681)/en-en/

Also in Polish, Italian, Türkish Wikipedia it is written Ottoman victory — Preceding unsigned comment added by Historiker123454 (talk • contribs) 03:05, 3 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Historiker123454 Historiker123454 (talk) 03:30, 3 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hallo[edit]

Hi Kansas Bear

There are written in other Wikipedia Languages like on Italian, Polish, Türkish, Romanian as Ottoman victory Here are the links

On Italian Wikipedia https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerra_russo-turca_(1676-1681)

On Polish Wikipedia https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojna_rosyjsko-turecka_(1674%E2%80%931681)

On Turkish Wikipedia https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1676-1681_Osmanl%C4%B1-Rus_Sava%C5%9F%C4%B1

On Romanian Wikipedia https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C4%83zboiul_Ruso-Turc_(1676%E2%80%931681)

also on French English la pariese site is it written Ottoman victory — Preceding unsigned comment added by Historiker123454 (talk • contribs) 03:20, 3 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Historiker123454Historiker123454 (talk) 03:31, 3 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hallo[edit]

I sent you the website again where is written it is Otomman victory

http://dictionnaire.sensagent.leparisien.fr/Russo-Turkish%20War%20(1676%E2%80%931681)/en-en/

Also in Polish, Italian, Türkish Wikipedia it is written Ottoman victory

Historiker123454 Historiker123454 (talk) 04:02, 3 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kansas Bear

There are written in other Wikipedia Languages like on Italian, Polish, Türkish, Romanian as Ottoman victory Here are the links

On Italian Wikipedia https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerra_russo-turca_(1676-1681)

On Polish Wikipedia https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojna_rosyjsko-turecka_(1674%E2%80%931681)

On Turkish Wikipedia https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1676-1681_Osmanl%C4%B1-Rus_Sava%C5%9F%C4%B1

On Romanian Wikipedia https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C4%83zboiul_Ruso-Turc_(1676%E2%80%931681)

also on French English la pariese site is it written Ottoman victory

Historiker123454 Historiker123454 (talk) 04:03, 3 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Try reading this. And this, http://dictionnaire.sensagent.leparisien.fr/Russo-Turkish%20War%20(1676%E2%80%931681)/en-en/ is a mirror site of Wikipedia. --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:09, 3 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Warfare, State, and Society on the Black Sea Steppe, 1500-1700, page 170;"Furthermore, already from late 1677 Moscow's primary objective in the war had become the protection of Kiev and the Left Bank, and by this test the first Muscovite-Ottoman War could be said to have ended on terms advantageous to Moscow, terms won through the action of the Muscovite and Left Bank Ukrainian armies following the destruction of Chyhyryn. Victory was achieved in two ways."
Sounds like Russia won this war. The continued reliance on page 172 is about the battle of Chyhyryn, not the war itself. "For Mehmet IV and Grand Vizier Kara Mustafa the destruction of Chyhyryn was thereby rendered a Pyrrhic victory." -- page 172. --Kansas Bear (talk) 19:36, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]


why indecisive?[edit]

Ottomans captured the Chyhyryn after the war. So why indecisive? It was an Ottoman victory — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mnl0g 044 (talk • contribs) 22:58, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. Another "new user" stating the same tired argument. Try reading what I have posted. Since clearly you are not interested in what sources state! --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:46, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

War result[edit]

The result of 1676-1681 Russo-Turkish War is Ottoman Victory and KansasBear delete the several sources and move to indecisive with 1 source and he means "Wikipedia is written using reliable secondary sources"

He wrote In Campaign of 1678 in the beginning only the attack of Russians, but he leave out the the counterattack and the victory of the Turks.

Or after capturing Chyhyryn, Turks attacks the Russians army beyond the Dnieper and after offensive Russian army reatret to Kiev and Turks seized then Kaniv and he wrote in Propaganda:

"The Russian army retreated beyond the Dnieper, beating off the pursuing Turkish army, which would finally leave them in peace. Later the Turks seized Kanev established the power of Yuri Khmelnitsky on the Right-bank Ukraine, but did not dare to go to Kiev, where the Russian troops were stationed."

Summary of this war: The 1676-1681 Ottoman-Russian War, or Muscovite Campaign, was the first great war between the Ottoman Empire and the Russian Tsardom. During this war, Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa Pasha became the grand vizier. As a result of the 5-year war, the Russian Tsardom, which could not be strengthened was defeated, and with the Treaty of Bakhchisarai on January 31, 1681, Chyhyryn Fortress and the rest of the Ukraine were left to the Ottomans.


according to the treaty Chyhyryn Fortress and rest of the Ukraine were left to the Ottomans. Aftermath capturing Chyhyryn fortress, in the continuation battle in the near from Chyhyryn Russian Army had leave the battle and retreat from this battle to Kiev. Ottoman army march 140 km into Russian territory and captured Kaniv and hold for decades years after (Russo Turkish War 1676-1681) war.


Notes

Davies, Brian L., Warfare, state and society on the Black Sea steppe, 1500-1700 " page number 172 is written Victory for Ottoman and Moscow loss Chyhyryn.


In Rhoads Murphey "Ottoman Warfare 1500-1700" book is written; "In the decades preceding the Ottomans’ attempted siege of Vienna in 1683 Ottoman armies had successfully prosecuted single-front wars in Hungary (the sieges of Varad [Oradea] in 1660 and Uyvar [N. Zamky] in 1663), Crete (the siege of Candia [Heraklion] between 1667 and 1669], Poland (the siege of Kamanice [Kamanetz-Podolsk] in 1672 and Russia (the siege of Çehrin [Chyhyryn] in 1678)" page number 9.

Brian Davies, Empire and Military revolution in eastern Europe: Russia's Turkish Wars in the eighteenth century page number 9.


Sources

  • Davies, Brian L., Warfare, state and society on the Black Sea steppe, 1500-1700, Routledge, 2007.
  • Rhoads Murphy "Ottoman Warfare 1500-1700"
  • Brian Davies, Empire and Military revolution in eastern Europe: Russia's Turkish Wars in the eighteenth century
  • Paxton, John e John Traynor, Leaders of Russia and the Soviet Union, Taylor & Francis Books Inc., 2004.
  • Abdulkadir Özcan, Diyanet İslam Ansiklopedisi, c.8, Page 249, 251
  • Hasan Karaköşe, Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa Paşa Uluslararası Sempozyumu Page 159, 160
  • Dimitrie Cantemir, History of the Growth and Decay of the Ottoman Empire III, 2-4, 9 vd., 17-30.
  • Danişmend Kronoloji volume 3 page numbers 1237, 1238, 1239
  • Blochet, Catalogue, Suppl. 1909, Paris), nr. 870, 927, 1124. Karakeçi24 (talk) 22:37, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


I looked at what the first of these sources wrote (Davies, Brian L., Warfare, state and society on the Black Sea steppe, 1500-1700, Routledge, 2007, page 170):

Furthermore, already from late 1677 Moscow’s primary objective in the war had become the protection of Kiev and the Left Bank, and by this test the first Muscovite—Ottoman War could be said to have ended on terms advantageous to Moscow, terms won through the action of the Muscovite and Left Bank Ukrainian armies following the destruction o f Chyhyryn. Victory was achieved in two ways.

So this source clearly state not Ottoman, but Moscow's victory in the whole war of 1676-1681.
On the other hand, the source that is now cited for the victory of the Ottomans (Rhoads Murphy "Ottoman Warfare 1500-1700" , p. 9) writes only about one of the events - the siege of Chigirin in 1678 and thus cannot be used to assess the entire war.--Nicoljaus (talk) 13:38, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Nicoljaus Invalid, you have no sources and evidence. Karakeçi24 (talk) 00:28, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Russia was drawn into war with the Ottoman empire (1676–81) that ended in stalemate in the armistice of Bakhchisarai in 1681." --Kollmann, Nancy Shields (2017). The Russia Empire, 1450-1801. Oxford University Press, page 14.
"The indecisive Russo-Turkish War from 1676 to 1681 centered on control of the fortress of Chigirin..."-- Stone, David R. (2006). A Military History of Russia: From Ivan the Terrible to the War in Chechnya. Greenwood Publishing, page 41.
I strongly suggest you refrain from edit warring. --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:45, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, Karakeçi24, I have sources and I can cite them (see above). On your part, I see the misuse of the sources - they do not say what you claim.--Nicoljaus (talk) 09:35, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Nicoljaus "The indecisive Russo-Turkish War from 1676 to 1681 centered on control of the fortress of Chigirin..."-- Stone, David R. (2006) "Indecisive" is not compatible with Treaty of Bakhchisarai Karakeçi24 (talk) 12:19, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Russia was drawn into war with the Ottoman empire (1676–81) that ended in stalemate in the armistice of Bakhchisarai in 1681." --Kollmann, Nancy Shields (2017). To according to the treaty of Bakhchisarai Chyhyryn And fortress and rest of the Ukraine were left to the Ottomans is not only armistice. Karakeçi24 (talk) 12:27, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong.
  • "By the Treaty of Radzin of 1681, the Turks gave up their claims on the Ukraine..." --What Went Wrong?: Western Impact and Middle Eastern Reponse, Bernard Lewis, page 16.
Karakeçi24 should avoid giving their opinion as if it were fact. --Kansas Bear (talk) 13:04, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
And,
  • "The war is settled in the Treaty of Radzin on January 8, 1681. Turkey renounces any claim to Ukraine on the condition that the territory between the Bug and Dniester rivers be completely evacuated and remain thus." --A Global Chronology of Conflict: From the Ancient World to the Modern Middle East, Vol 2, Spencer Tucker, page 658.
And,
  • "In the 1681 Treaty of Bakhchisarai ending this conflict, the Turks formally acknowledged Muscovy's conquest of the left - bank Ukraine ." --Early Modern Russian Bureaucracy The Evolution of the Chancellery System from Ivan III to Peter the Great, 1478-1717, Volume 2, Peter Bowman Brown, page 486. --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:00, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
And,
  • "Signed in January 1681 at Bakhchisarai(Crimea), the treaty proclaimed a 20-year truce and set the Dnieper River as the borderline between the Ottoman and Russian realms. The sultan then recognized Moscow’s sovereignty in eastern (left bank) Ukraine, including Kiev..." --Conflict and conquest in the Islamic world : A Historical Encyclopedia, Alexander Mikaberidze, page 180-181. --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:10, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
And,
  • "The Turkish army had been defeated three times during the dismal years 1677-1678. After another two desultory and uneventful years Kara Mustafa was obliged to accept the unfavorable treaty of Radzin ( in 1681 ) , giving up most of Turkish Ukraine to the Russians." -- Venice, Austria, and the Turks in the seventeenth century, Kenneth Meyer Setton, page 257. --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:56, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Do you know many cases where winner is forced to pay tribute to the loser? Rus was forced to resume paying tribute and repay for the previously-skipped years. It's clear that Rus lost this specific war. 2A0D:6FC2:1264:2000:E905:38F2:A08E:97A7 (talk) 00:34, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@KansasBear you wrote this in Propaganda Turks would not defeated threetimes 1677-1678. Turks would defeated only in 1677 Campaign

First, you leave out the victory of Turks at Tias'min River after third attack Russian lost that why Romodanovsky ordered to leave the citadel and withdraw troops to the left bank. Second, Russian lost beyond the Dnieper and reatret from this battle to Kiev and Turks seized Kaniv (141 near from Kiev)

And you wrote in Propaganda

"The Russian army retreated beyond the Dnieper, beating off the pursuing Turkish army, which would finally leave them in peace. Later the Turks seized Kanev established the power of Yuri Khmelnitsky on the Right-bank Ukraine, but did not dare to go to Kiev, where the Russian troops were stationed."

Why withdraw Russian army the battle and retreat to Kiev if they defated the Turks. After this Turks captured Kaniv. 

Karakeçi24 (talk) 04:10, 30 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If you have a problem then I suggest you contact an Admin. They will take great delight in reading your comments. Done here. --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:20, 30 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Whose victory.[edit]

Well, acting with WP:GOODFAITH, I'll try to explain the situation. This was not a war in which the Ottoman Empire took Ukraine away from the Russians. In fact, as a result of the Truce of Andrusovo of 1667, Ukraine was divided into the Right Bank (Polish) and the Left Bank (Moscow) parts. But on the right bank was Kiev (now the capital of Ukraine), which Moscow tried to preserve as an important bridgehead (in a political and religious sense), although by agreement the Russians were supposed to cleanse it after two years. Thus, Moscow did not have any rights to the Right-Bank Ukraine, and if it had defeated the Turks, it would have had to violate the terms of the Truce of Andrusovo and fight with Poland. Therefore, for Moscow, the outcome of the war was acceptable - it secured the Left-Bank Ukraine and, moreover, de facto captured Kiev - Poland was too exhausted in the war with the Ottomans to object and soon recognized its transfer to Moscow. The Ottomans could also be happy - they retained their seizures in the Right-Bank Ukraine. In general, both sides received something at the expense of a third party - Poland (but in the subsequent years Poland returned much of the Right-Bank Ukraine). In reality, only the Ukrainian Cossacks lost, who hoped to preserve the unity of the country on both sides of the Dnieper.--Nicoljaus (talk) 09:02, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Result of war[edit]

I believe there is enough information concerning the result of this war to place "Disputed" for the result in the infobox. Perhaps something like what was done at Battle of Jamrud, whereby we indicate, in a section within the article, what sources state Russian victory, Ottoman victory, and Indecisive(stalemate). Каракорум, Nicoljaus --Kansas Bear (talk) 19:38, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Something like:
"The result of the war, which was ended by the Treaty of Bakhchisarai, is disputed. Some historians say it was an Ottoman victory,(Murphey 1999, PerrieDavies 2006 ) yet other historians contend it was a Russian victory(Davies 2007). While some historians state it was a stalemate(Kollmann 2017, Stone 2006, PerrieDavies 2006)"

Additional sources can be added for each outcome. --Kansas Bear (talk) 19:57, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is a good solution. Only this is not a" battle", but a "war".--Nicoljaus (talk) 21:36, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about that. I was trying to get the wording right and was thinking about the Battle of Jamrud. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:41, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The Perrie source is actually written by Davies, Perrie is just the editor. Already added to infobox. --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:53, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, the correct idea, leave the indication "disputed" in the infobox with a link to the section where to describe in more detail. Каракорум (talk) 06:38, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I have moved the information out of the infobox and into the article. If either of you finds more references, feel free to add them. --Kansas Bear (talk) 14:27, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Naming the unnamed sultan[edit]

I named the Ottoman Sultan Mehmed IV, in the article. Just wanted to be clear, his name is not stated in the source accompanying the text (atleast I tried and couldn't find it), but on the basis of Mehmed ruling in a wide span of year between this war; I think its safe to say that he was "that sultan". Feel free to remove if this isn't concrete evidence. But I think its a safe assumption. Thank you Danial Bass (talk) 11:20, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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