Talk:S.L. Benfica

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biggest sports club in the world[edit]

Bayern München has become the biggest sports club in the world with 251,315 members as it was announced today at 19:57

http://www.focus.de/sport/fussball/bundesliga1/fc-bayern-hauptversammlung-im-live-ticker-erste-versammlung-ohne-uli-hoeness_id_4309531.html#aktualisieren

--Ich901 (talk) 19:07, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Yeah right, Bayern Munich president says something and suddenly it's an indisputable fact. SLBedit (talk) 00:23, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
http://www.record.xl.pt/Futebol/Nacional/1a_liga/Benfica/interior.aspx?content_id=915314 "The president of Bayern Munich, Karl Hopfner, has doubts about the number of Benfica paying members, the club [Benfica] that the magazine "The Weekly", of FIFA, confirmed in February as the world leader."
http://www.record.xl.pt/Futebol/Internacional/alemanha/interior.aspx?content_id=917326 "the bavarians assure to have now 251,315 paying members, more 16 thousand than the record that still belongs to Benfica because the new number lacks confirmation by UEFA." SLBedit (talk) 00:49, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
It's unofficial until UEFA says so. SLBedit (talk) 00:53, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

here is another source:

http://www.welt.de/sport/fussball/bundesliga/fc-bayern-muenchen/article134834862/Der-FC-Bayern-ist-der-groesste-Verein-der-Welt.html

--Ich901 (talk) 20:18, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Not so fast. That's what the German club and German websites say. Few days ago president of Bayern Munich was questioning the number of Benfica members just because the club is from a small country like Portugal. SLBedit (talk) 21:05, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
Don't twist the facts, he didn't say anything about Portugals size. I read the interview he gave. He only said that he was not sure whether Benfica includes fanclub members or not.
http://www.welt.de/sport/fussball/bundesliga/fc-bayern-muenchen/article134371605/Herr-Watzke-hat-doch-mit-dem-Streit-angefangen.html
President (quote): Das Problem bei der Beantwortung dieser Frage ist die klare Darstellung der Mitgliederzahlen. Es gibt unterschiedliche Meinungen darüber, ob bei Benfica die Mitglieder von Fanklubs dazugezählt werden oder nicht. Vielleicht können wir hier bis zur Mitgliederversammlung am 28. November Aufklärung herbeiführen.
translation: The problem with answering this question is a the clear representation of the membership numbers. There are different opinions about whether the members of the fan clubs from Benfica are included or not. Maybe we can bring enlightenment about this at the General Assembly on 28 of November.
Welt.de and Focus.de are two of the biggest online news services in Germany and can be regarded as reliable sources. The language of the source is no problem according to Wikipedia's rules. --Ich901 (talk) 21:51, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
They don't even know how many members Benfica currently has, so how can they say Bayern Munich has more? Where is the comparison? Where is the official and neutral source? If Benfica president would say "we have 300,000 members" and the Portuguese media repeated it that wouldn't make it a fact, and that's what happening in German media. SLBedit (talk) 22:34, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
I don't know in which time of the year Benfica announces its current member number. The only thing I know is that you have claimed that the Bayern president was questioning Benficas member number because of Portugals size, which is a lie. And I also know that Benfica fans constantly spam Bayerns Facebook page and make offensive postings, because apparently someone has stung them with lies. I am pretty sure there will be more international sources claiming that Bayern is now the biggest sports club tomorrow. Bayern's latest member number is higher than Benfica's latest member number. --Ich901 (talk) 22:43, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
Calm down and stop insulting Benfica fans. Facebook has nothing to do with Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a social network nor a forum. "International sources" won't make it a fact unless there is a unbiased comparison between the current number of members from both clubs. SLBedit (talk) 22:53, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
It's already happening. The international media is spreading Bayern Munich propaganda. SLBedit (talk) 00:17, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
Spanish source claiming the same member number: http://www.eluniverso.com/deportes/2014/11/28/nota/4280686/bayern-munich-facturo-658-millones-dolares-temporada-2013-2014
English source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2853592/Bayern-Munich-post-record-turnover-breaking-500m-barrier-time.html --Ich901 (talk) 22:51, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
And? SLBedit (talk) 22:56, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

http://www.welt.de/sport/fussball/bundesliga/fc-bayern-muenchen/article134834862/Der-FC-Bayern-ist-der-groesste-Verein-der-Welt.html

clearly states: "Zudem haben die Bayern innerhalb der vergangenen zwölf Monate ihre Mitgliederzahl deutlich gesteigert, von 233.427 auf 251.315. Die zuletzt veröffentlichten Statistiken als Maßstab genommen hat der Double-Gewinner damit den bislang mitgliederstärksten Klub Benfica Lissabon aus Portugal überholt und darf sich größter Verein der Welt nennen."

translation: "In addition, the Bavarians have increased their membership significantly in the past twelve months, from 233,427 to 251,315 . The most recently published statistics taken as a measure, the double winners have overtaken the thus far largest club by membership Benfica Lisbon from Portugal and can name themselves the largest club in the world."

It is clearly stated that Bayern is bigger than Benfica according the latest statistics. Welt.de is widely regarded as a reliable source. It is one of the biggest news services and news papers in Germany. It is used everywhere in Wikipedia as a source and I repeat there are no restrictions on the language used in the sources, it is irrelevant.

You can't expect Benfica and Bayern announcing their membership numbers on the exact same day. The article from Welt.de speaks of the "latest statistics" which is all you can call for. Ich901 (talk) 23:28, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

That's pretty arrogant. SLBedit (talk) 23:38, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
Please elaborate why this is arrogant and please elaborate where I "called you names". I have provided a source that can be regarded as reliable according to Wikipedia standards that clearly states that Bayern has more members than Benfica taking the latest statistics as a measure. Ich901 (talk) 23:43, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
"It is clearly stated that Bayern is bigger than Benfica according the latest statistics", that's arrogant specially when it's unconfirmed numbers. According to the latest comparison in February, Benfica is bigger than Bayern Munich. You called me a liar because I had a different interpretation. The "latest statistics" don't provide the current number of Benfica members. SLBedit (talk) 23:58, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
What you wrote about the Bayern president was not a "different interpretation". You simply accused him of something he never said and that is clearly a lie. That has absolutely nothing to do with misinterpretation. You can't doubt the article without proving it wrong. They clearly said latest statistics. What you do is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research --Ich901 (talk) 00:05, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
What you are doing is propaganda and not using reliable sources. Bayern Munich is the only one saying they are the biggest without even knowing the total of Benfica members. SLBedit (talk) 00:11, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
I can provide even more sources stating that Bayern has overtaken Benfica.
Spanish: http://futbol.as.com/futbol/2014/11/28/internacional/1417202963_498772.html
Portuguese: http://www.record.xl.pt/Futebol/Internacional/alemanha/interior.aspx?content_id=917326
Portuguese: http://www.maisfutebol.iol.pt/polemica-bayern-munique-benfica-numero-de-socios-bayern-numero-de-socios-do-benfica-liga-internacional-alemanha/5478d5e20cf25d9ff90a76d1.html --Ich901 (talk) 23:56, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
You clearly can't read Portuguese and Spanish languages. Portuguese and Spanish "sources" just copied what Bayern said. International sources won't make it a fact unless there is a unbiased comparison between the current number of members from both clubs. You can keep spamming irrelevant links. SLBedit (talk) 00:02, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
The only way to solve this is to wait for Benfica's response. SLBedit (talk) 00:12, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
Stop deleting my posts. This is forbidden. You lied about what the Bayern president said. No need to wait for Benfica. I have provided reliable sources. You can't doubt them. This is forbidden according to Wikipedia's rules, see original research. --Ich901 (talk) 00:16, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
Stop lying. I didn't delete any of your posts, I reverted an edit and reverted it back (it was mistake). No, you don't have a reliable source. Yes, I can doubt of anything Bayern Munich president says. I'm not doing original research. I am looking for unbiased sources. Until Benfica or a neutral organization confirms the numbers, the current information shouldn't be changed. SLBedit (talk) 00:21, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
Why do you say that UEFA has to approve? UEFA is just a European organisation and is not the only party entitled to decide which is the biggest club worldwide. I have provided the single statement (see link) the president of Bayern has given in an interview about Benfica's number. He didn't say anything about Portugal. He wasn't even directly questioning the number of Benfica members. He said that there are different opinions on this, but not that he believes that Benfica is making up their number. Everything that Portuguese media has made up after that is simply wrong. What was the result? Benfica started a campaign in German language and claimed that they are the biggest club in the world. And they didn't know the current Bayern member number at that time. But what they created were hateful comments by their fans. And there wasn't even one single comment from Bayern fans on Benfica's page, because they didn't even notice Benfica being upset. --Ich901 (talk) 01:10, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
Benfica used the official numbers at the time, what resulted from that is irrelevant to Wikipedia. SLBedit (talk) 02:46, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
Allright. So we have to wait until Benfica's response. But until then, I think that the only thing that is correct is two write that Benfica was biggest club at a certain time (or during a certain period), since we do not know if they are the biggest club at the moment (as you said it SLBendit). By the way, this is official statistics from Bayern Munich: http://www.fcbayern.de/media/native/presse-free/Mitglieder_Fanclubs_KidsClub_13-14.pdf EriFr (talk) 11:13, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
My username is SLBedit. We don't know which club has the highest membership so I have changed the article to reflect the current situation. SLBedit (talk) 19:56, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
I conclude with this: I don't care if Benfica or Bayern have more members. I care about facts. Bayern claims to have X members and arrogantly say they are the biggest, when they don't even know how many members Benfica has. SLBedit (talk) 20:55, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

"second-biggest club in the world, after Bayern Munich" means the club is third and not second. SLBedit (talk) 19:08, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Rodrigo[edit]

Rodrigo already signed a contract with Valencia, as it is said here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigo_Moreno_Machado#Valencia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.193.0.186 (talk) 23:44, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Of course he signed a contract, he needs it to play for Valencia. He's registered in Spanish league as a loan from Benfica. SLBedit (talk) 07:50, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Then why did he say that he was already a Valencia player, i.e., that he wasn't loaned by Benfica anymore? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.193.0.186 (talk) 17:05, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Arouca has never been relegated[edit]

Arouca has never been relegated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.193.1.124 (talk) 16:02, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

That's correct but not notable. Arouca is not part of the Big Three clubs and has only played one full season in Primeira Liga. SLBedit (talk) 19:40, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Then you have to say that the Big Three clubs are the only ones to have partipated in every season of the Primeira Liga instead of that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.193.1.124 (talk) 00:40, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
No. What's notable is that the club has never been relegated despite having participated in every edition of Primeira Liga. "Benfica is one of the Big Three (...) who have never been relegated from the Portuguese league since its establishment in 1933." The participation in every season is implied with "since its establishment in 1933" (should be 1934). SLBedit (talk) 04:43, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
Ok, you're right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.88.88 (talk) 03:23, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 January 2015[edit]

"With 235,000 members (as of February 2014), Benfica is the second-biggest club in the world, after Bayern Munich.[7][8][9]"(out of date and error information) Benfica is the biggest club in the world 81.84.201.44 (talk) 18:55, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. -- Orduin Discuss 19:50, 31 January 2015 (UTC)