Talk:Sacrifice

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Self-Sacrifice/Social or Cultural Sacrifice[edit]

What about Self-Sacrifice? The essence of this is it involvers some personal cost, the extent of the cost being proportional to the extent of the self-sacrifice. It can be anything of value to the bearer including a forbearance of some pleasure, desire, or need upto sacrificing everything including ones life.

Indeed, there is an argument that unless a sacrifice comes at some significant cost, it is no sacrifice at all, or at the most a symbolic sacrifice. This aspect is particularly important in theological considerations of Sacrifice to God.

A reason for Self-Sacrifice (to God) is as penance for sin.

Other matters[edit]

I deleted this text:

  • (None of these mention the Biblical reasons for sacrifices. Will be added.)

from the list of explanations of the theology of sacrifice. It's been there for quite some time. There are Biblical explanations already in the list, although they may well be incomplete. Some potential Biblical explanations for sacrifice (atonement, asceticism) are also there, but stated as being of general application, as IMNPHO they should be. -- Smerdis of Tlön 19:08, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)

This article quotes, or references the authority of many sources, yet lacks adequate citations to support most of its facts. The information in this article needs to be audited, and these instances need to be linked up to actual resources. Simply saying, "so and so says..." is not sufficient. --75.32.150.185 (talk) 21:41, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

recent sacrifice[edit]

There is an interesting account of a recent sacrifice of six bulls in the latest edition [Autumn 2005] of Sacred Fire magazine, in an article entitled "Divine Nourishment." Carptrash 14:08, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

 The most recent everyday sacrifice of the masculine prepuce is so common it was not even mentioned. This religious, ritual, or routine sacrifice is the cornerstone of Judaic, Christian, and Islam Faiths, or myths, as they must believe that God spoke with and commanded Abraham to sacrifice his and his sons's prepuce in order to become god's chosen race, or there would not be a need or cause of these religious concepts to exist in the first place.In other words, the justification of the sacrificial covenant law of infant circumcision is why these religions exist in the first place. Without this prophetic sacrifice means no chosen race of the covenant sacrifice, which means no need for a prophetic Savior from the chosen race covenant sacrifice, which means no need for the prophetic anti Savior.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.162.149.132 (talk) 11:25, 22 May 2011 (UTC) 

Christian human sacrifice[edit]

There are many accounts in folklore and arhelogical evidence that christians immured people in churches when new church was built and for protection from plague, I believe that it was form of human secriface and should mentioned, but I`m affraid that this could prove to be highly controversial, comments ? -- Xil - talk 20:20, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Check whether they did this because of a particular interpretation of their scripture or not. If they didn’t have any religious justification for what they were doing, it should not be included in the “Sacrifice in Christianity” part (maybe somewhere else in the article after making sure that it is a fact). But if they religiously justified it, then you can quote it from a reliable source and add it to the “Sacrifice in Christianity” part Aminz 23:20, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
For that matter, do you have a reference for the immuring itself? This was Celtic pagan practice -- deplored by the (pagan) Romans -- but we would need a reference that proves that Christians did it. Goldfritha 00:59, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Indian Poors sacrifice their children for Prosperity.[edit]

Indian Poors secrifice their children for Prosperity.

http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=79072

Parents sacrificing sons to be prosperous

Press Trust of India Posted online: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 at 1643 hours IST

Baripada (Orissa), January 3: Lured by promises of prosperity, a couple has allegedly sacrificed their two sons in Orissa's northern district of Mayurbahanj Padmalochan Gan and his wife Tuni had been advised by a 'tantric' to sacrifice their sons Harish (9) and Dipu (7) and hold a puja to set themselves on the path to prosperity, police said on Wednesday. The couple sacrificed their sons at their home at Tilapada village, about 55 km from here, after observing some rituals in the presence of the tantrik, identified as Jagannath Tudu, police said. Though the incident had occurred about a week ago it came to light only this morning, when the foul smell emanating from the decomposed bodies alerted the local people. They found the bodies of the two boys and informed the police, which have arrested the couple. The tantrik is absconding. The couple also has a two-month-old daughter, who had been spared, police said.

vkvora 04:10, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Judaism[edit]

The teachings of the Torah and Tanakh reveal Judaism's abhorrence of human sacrifices. This is quite a gloss on human sacrifice in the Judaic tradition. There is abhorrence, also ambivalence and contradiction. It's there and is rather interesting. Hakluyt bean 03:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Sir Richard Burton had a story about human ritual sacrifice in "The Jew, The Gypsy and El Islam" based on accounts from the French consul in Syria.

[1]

The Story of Isaac in itself implies human ritual sacrifice. Genesis 22:1-18


--Rolec Dubbing (talk) 20:53, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

There are references to blood and its purification on page 80 of 'The Jew', can these be equated with the ritual practices of the Kali worshippers and the sacrifices of the Maya? There was something in blood that had a (negative) power and had to be purified, hence the concept of Kosher meat. --Wool Bridge (talk) 21:34, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Christianity[edit]

the last part of this portion of the article is pretty vague and unencyclopedic. Every sentence has either "seems to be" or "apparently" The note on the passion movie has a citation needed no, but it seems pretty unverifiable to me

"Examples of self-sacrifice"[edit]

Self sacrifice is such a subjective notion that to list examples is to tilt the boat, any way you take it. For example, the accidental circumstance that a suicide bomber dies in his own explosion does not exonerate him from the murder he commits. Especially if he's waiting to go to paradise. (No, not every suicide bomber is.) --VKokielov (talk) 01:39, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Hinduism[edit]

The section is unsourced, false, and sickening. I am removing most of the text under WP:V.Bakaman 18:48, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


Historical Polytheism[edit]

Where did the nonsense about the ancient Egyptians not practising sacrifice come from? I removed it and cited the Apis cult as a counter example.Lewisaa (talk) 17:40, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's actually rather doubtful whether that is sacrifice as such. The bull was allowed to live for 25 or so years, which is longer than the average bovine lifespan, so most would have simply died of natural causes. They were killed if they lived after that date which was determined as the limit of each incarnation, but they were not being sacrificed, since it was believed that the bull was the God, and that it needed to be released to be reincarnated. That's quite different from the conventional idea of sacrificing an animal as an offering to a God. Paul B (talk) 16:00, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Bloodless sacrifice and dedication of objects[edit]

Both are mentioned in the lead, but their historical treatment in the main text is sketchy at best. Accordingly, the article as a whole is unbalanced. Ancient and Classical Greece and Rome, Celtic, Gallic, Germanic practice et al offer rich pickings here, as does the transition from pre-Christian to Christian era. As it stands, the promise made in the lede (sacrificium as "making sacred" - which is, surely, a reverential act and offering - whether of animal, vegetable or mineral - whose explication also remains undeveloped here) wanders off into a bit of a bloodfest. Excepting, of course, for the refreshing veg main-dish in the Hindu section... Perhaps the addition of a new header will spark a contribution or two. Haploidavey (talk) 00:45, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Ayn Rand[edit]

I removed the clear bias in the section on Ayn Rand which flat-out stated her beliefs to be "erroneous." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.121.234.89 (talk) 01:44, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Ayn Rand? This section is completely superfluous. Should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.161.210.145 (talk) 22:42, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Agree but only because of the generally observed community policy for AR stuffs and the current overall content. It's long since history at this point and yes stating that her view that "man is not a sacrificial animal" or whatever is erroneous would be inappropriate. This article isn't about the abstract concept of sacrifice or altruism, it's about ritual sacrifice, the actually historically occurring thing. 76.180.168.166 (talk) 03:43, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

odd list in lead[edit]

Why is there a list which looks like a cross between a disambig page and a see also section in the lead? Seems a bit odd. I might move it. Huw Powell (talk) 00:32, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Go for it. Haploidavey (talk) 00:42, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the encouragement, I went ahead and removed it. Huw Powell (talk) 01:22, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Seriously, any improvements at this, um, less-than-adequate article are very welcome. Haploidavey (talk) 01:25, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Sacrifice to the Banner in Ming dynasty China[edit]

http://books.google.com/books?id=i6gfSl7PHE4C&pg=PA218&lpg=PA218&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=Y-OlNQjhUO&sig=2FBuYeYDlU3PpaB6UR86jIaDgL8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jJt7UKCvIYHN0AGs4YH4Ag&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=dCUhSRR7yP4C&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=wO-WPBc2Ht&sig=IEPxHbMoOBLiBuGbCwczSYIMgtw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jJt7UKCvIYHN0AGs4YH4Ag&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=TCIjZ7l6TX8C&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=l2Qiuhr23I&sig=xcitudjRGd7FcYNo5Sv-YYoEdE4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jJt7UKCvIYHN0AGs4YH4Ag&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=hi2THl2FUZ4C&pg=PA341&lpg=PA341&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=1NxcdIFIhu&sig=PumqLrxIPpdP2ZC_6-7kO19nL1g&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jJt7UKCvIYHN0AGs4YH4Ag&ved=0CEIQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=067On0JgItAC&pg=PA588&lpg=PA588&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=5PxkoOvYFa&sig=mIwSpVXRO0bK0NMldMEoleyvbLg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jJt7UKCvIYHN0AGs4YH4Ag&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Idhyr1hqS0kC&pg=PA800&lpg=PA800&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=a8zHtuDGRq&sig=PKnDtzxu1EBVjsB4GNWZi5HkKHk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jJt7UKCvIYHN0AGs4YH4Ag&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=i6pIMVGPkuUC&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=jn78S7f7Nq&sig=_81duwIDxo9O06YRMn28yQdF9CI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jJt7UKCvIYHN0AGs4YH4Ag&ved=0CFIQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=_6H1TvEpETMC&pg=PA90&lpg=PA90&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=nbESsnMiDe&sig=nBVFf20T00nJl-f0la73GL8G9G0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jJt7UKCvIYHN0AGs4YH4Ag&ved=0CFgQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=UVceic7Z4moC&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=k9r4YQHilW&sig=H-AcQhxS-TbuxMNG0Juq9VDYYhU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jJt7UKCvIYHN0AGs4YH4Ag&ved=0CGAQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=l6ab-z8tps0C&pg=PA270&lpg=PA270&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=ie2GPwt5ks&sig=NF7ah5gQ9jMLUa0oLxEFuc_Kmos&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jJt7UKCvIYHN0AGs4YH4Ag&ved=0CGUQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=MKfXAAAAMAAJ&q=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=hFrH0hhHmx&sig=4OWa1QWM7Aq5RBkScq45dz2rBKM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-Jx7UJ6yD_C80QHKlYCgAQ&ved=0CC8Q6AEwADgK


http://books.google.com/books?id=MTXxqqXw59kC&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=Vr1v_KYWub&sig=B7EzKulKJG6VltlKKbvSMoen-0s&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-Jx7UJ6yD_C80QHKlYCgAQ&ved=0CDMQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false


http://books.google.com/books?id=YQOhVb5Fbt4C&pg=PA209&lpg=PA209&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=ug35jPg-bq&sig=PNdCx4aPMb6PHeOlX5FR-lZq3G0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-Jx7UJ6yD_C80QHKlYCgAQ&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=YfKOGTcHvncC&pg=PT334&lpg=PT334&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=C98OVEET5A&sig=rmcxGFNwQoM1nGWK_0O_OcOo5b0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-Jx7UJ6yD_C80QHKlYCgAQ&ved=0CD8Q6AEwAzgK

http://books.google.com/books?id=8hOgAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA235&lpg=PA235&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=e_g40Rp6YX&sig=mAw6Zm5jV98b51ahHImm5LTpGi8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-Jx7UJ6yD_C80QHKlYCgAQ&ved=0CEUQ6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=SQWW7QgUH4gC&pg=PA1086&lpg=PA1086&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=j6DpnA4eBf&sig=ww_UDSjS3i_A03KRl-gOUTEsA44&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-Jx7UJ6yD_C80QHKlYCgAQ&ved=0CEsQ6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=1h9zzSH-NmwC&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=SJ4diRdGu6&sig=hzAwWzkim3_ZCpO_DACTS3GgSKA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-Jx7UJ6yD_C80QHKlYCgAQ&ved=0CFEQ6AEwBjgK#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=5iN5J9G76h0C&pg=PA462&lpg=PA462&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=8qPmJUPuGf&sig=n8lVKbNZnc3h5Tiytg4S5v28_IQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-Jx7UJ6yD_C80QHKlYCgAQ&ved=0CFcQ6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=cRXAcZGcpa8C&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=dPhPA7a5es&sig=xZd63W-9zSGwaRJcmVk1WSEcMWk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-Jx7UJ6yD_C80QHKlYCgAQ&ved=0CF0Q6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=UQAMAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=sacrifice+to+the+banner+ming&source=bl&ots=h0ahtxDTzh&sig=rjiT3oVlkCuxeUAyb1It17lMq5s&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-Jx7UJ6yD_C80QHKlYCgAQ&ved=0CGMQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=sacrifice%20to%20the%20banner%20ming&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 17:13, 3 May 2014 (UTC)