Talk:Sakhalin

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Moved from article[edit]

Moved fr. article

Initial text from 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica. Please update as needed.

Finish mv

--Menchi 04:40, Jul 31, 2003 (UTC)

I deleted the last sentence of the opening paragraph, "Now, the opinion which should return Karafuto (Sakhalin) and the Chishima Islands to Japan and to carry out is also the world," as it seems like a poorly translated tag to the paragraph--TKE

NPOV?[edit]

Why is there a POV warning? There's no comments here, and I can't find who added it in the log. (comments, people, comments) Is it okay to remove? I don't see much POV in the article, but I haven't done a deep reading. --Golbez 22:18, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)


It's OK as far as I can see. It does presents the area as a place of constant Russian expansion (which it was, of course), while the power struggle and the contesting interests of Chinese, Japanese and Russian rulers and colonists are at different levels responsible for the transformation of the Island and the negative effects on the native population. The only thing I would doubt is the statement that the Japanese returned the 'proper' name to Sakhalin by calling it by a japanized Ainu name. Historical names change according to historical processes and in their respective contexts are all equally valid. To avoid an unnecessary essentialist remark I'll remove the word 'proper' from this second paragraph, therefore stating that the Japanese restored the Ainu name for the Island. By the way, anyone might have information on the actual times of Japanese withdrawal from the north portion of Sakhalin, Hammond-Times Atlas of World History states that the Russians regained full control of this portion only after 1925 (p. 254). As I have no further information than a small sign on a map, maybe somebody could find out more. --BlackMarket 16:36, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Infobox[edit]

I want to transsfer the names of the Russian, Japanese and Chinese names into an infobox, so as to make the organization of the names better. The names were not added by me, however.

If anybody is interested, please see the dispute on the Korean name of Tsushima Islands; but there should be no reason why the Korean name should be taken down just because Korea no longer claims Tsushima; the Japanese name is here, yet Japan does not claim Sakhalin. However, the Japanese in retrospect to Sakhalin, like the Korean in retrospect to Tsushima, have played a significant role in their history. Mr Tan 09:04, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Geography, Economy, and Demographics[edit]

I have added to and edited these sections. --Sir Edgar 07:38, 26 July 2005 (UTC)


The indigenous people of Sakhalin are the Xianbei and Xiazhe tribes, who had a way of life based on fishing. The Chinese in the Ming dynasty knew the island as Kuyi (Chinese: 苦夷; pinyin: Kǔyí), and later as Kuye (Chinese: 庫頁; pinyin: Kùyè). According to the Book of Shengmu (Chinese: 聖武記; pinyin: Shèngwǔjì), the Ming sent 400 troops to Sakhalin in 1616, but later withdrew as it was considered there was no threat to Chinese control of the island. A Ming boundary stone still exists on the island.

Look at the passage above.It indicated that the "Ming" sent 400 troops to Sakhalin in 1616 according to the Book of Shengmu.But I think the dynasty which sent troops in 1616 is Qing not Ming. "1616年:根据《圣武记》,清朝就曾派兵四百到岛上巡边,因无外力威胁而撤回。" http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%BA%93%E9%A1%B5%E5%B2%9B

I have added to the Economy section, in order to provide some perspective on possible Russian reasons (referenced) for its recent actions regarding the Sakhalin II project. Saraalan 03:03, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Capital name[edit]

"The Soviets completed the conquest of Sakhalin on August 25, 1945 by occupying the capital of Sakhalin, 大泊(Yuzhno Sakhalinsk)."

The capital of Karafuto Prefecture is called Toyohara (豊原) in Japanese and Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk (Ю́жно-Сахали́нск) in Russian. There is a railway station called Ōdomori (大泊) in Mie prefecture, though (which is very far from Karafuto), see [1] or [2]. Do the 大泊 characters refer to another Ōdomori location in Karafuto Prefecture, and if so, which place is intended, Ōdomori or Toyohara?

User:212.247.11.153 19:34, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

The text above, that you copied, says:
  • "Ōdomori (大泊) in Mie prefecture"
That makes me think that the location in NOT in Karafuto, but Mie.
PS Plese sign your talk page entires with four tildes:> ~~~~
WikiDon 20:16, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Ainu Population[edit]

I have changed the current Ainu population to zero as per information presented in "The Shamans Coat: a Native History of Siberia" by Anna Reid.(2002)DHBoggs 18:17, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Redirect[edit]

"Sahalin" could be a redirect page for this.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.230.249.138 (talkcontribs) .

Done.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 13:35, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

please verify[edit]

We should verify disputed content regarding Japan's current position on the status of Sakhalin. The Japanese government has formally established a Consulate-General in Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk ( ja:ユジノサハリンスク#在外公館 ), it can be regarded as an official recognition of Russian sovereignty. - 219.79.122.73 05:17, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Correct. The statement in the article Today, the island is claimed by both Russia and Japan . . . is wrong, so I will edit it to make it clear that the dispute is in the past. --Kleinzach 04:43, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
I just learned that Japanese maps regard this island as a no-mans-land.(82.134.28.194 (talk) 11:11, 7 June 2010 (UTC))
They color it white, I am near one right now and can provide a cellphone picture if you'd like. --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 11:32, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Merge?[edit]

There is a lot of redundancy between Sakhalin and Karafuto Prefecture. It seems like the latter should be merger with the former.

I wouldn't go as far as to merge them completely (if only for categorization and linking purposes), but the latter should definitely be cleaned up.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:00, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. With the number of articles that link to Karafuto Prefecture, it would be nice to keep an article there. But it needs to focus principally (if not entirely) on the Japanese occupation and administration of Sakhalin and not focus so much on the history and geography of the island as a whole. I'm not an expert on Karafuto but in the near future I'll try to translate and incorporate some information from the Japanese page and see if I can't get rid of a little bit of the redundancy. CES 16:43, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't know much about Karafuto myself, but if you happen to have any questions about Russia/Soviet Union when you work on this article, feel free to ask me for help. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:42, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

�"路[edit]

According to the article this is how Tōrō is spelled in Japanese. There just might be something wrong with it - considering it consists of �, ", and an actual kanji. Lysis rationale (talk) 00:53, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I just found it in the Karafuto Prefecture article, it's 塔路. Lysis rationale (talk) 00:55, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

"Indigenous Peoples" of Sakhalin[edit]

Am I the only one who thinks it is very odd to have Russians, Koreans, and Yakuts listed as "indigenous peoples" of Sakhalin? Shouldn't the "indigenous peoples" of Sakhalin be the Nivkhi and the Ainu, and at most perhaps also some Tungusic peoples (e.g. Oroks or Evens)? Ebizur (talk) 01:10, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Railways - removal[edit]

"All mainland rolling stock is replaced by Japanese Shinkansen rolling stock (except series 400, E3 and E5 "mini") which is regauged (from 1,435 mm (4 ft 8 12 in) to 1520) at Kholmsk and in Japan since 1999, and new rolling stocks. "

Ok, I'm not sure, but I really don't believe this.. Is it true, seems unlikely? If it is true then please prove it with a reference. It really doesn't seem likely to be true at all? Sf5xeplus (talk) 19:54, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

about sakhalin island.[edit]

before Japan and Russia share the island of Sakhalin, the entire island was under Japanese control. right ?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.28.96.223 (talk) 01:47, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

The island never really had a clear owner until 1875 when it was given to Russia. Before that the Chinese Japanese and Russians had all laid claims, and the Russians and Japanese had settlements on it. In 1875 it became Russia, before being divided by the Russo-Japanese war. It went back to Russia after WWII. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 04:43, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

'nationwide'? which nation?[edit]

As part of a nationwide Sino-French cartographic program- of where, China? It needs clarification.Costesseyboy (talk) 17:01, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

WP: Japan Assessment Commentary[edit]

The article was assessed C-class for lack of sufficient in-line citations.Boneyard90 (talk) 06:52, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Sakhalin province vs. Sakhalin island[edit]

This edit caught my eye recently. At a quick look, the article seems unclear about whether its topic is the island or the province -- especially with the image File:Sakhalin in Russia (claimed).svg and the link to Oblasts of Russia in the infobox. I see that there is a separate article for Sakhalin Oblast. That edit which caught my eye mentions Moneron Island and Ush Island; it seems as if there are standalone articles for those islands, there should be one for Sakhalin island as well; perhaps this article ought to be renamed Sakhalin island (which currently redirects here). Also, this article says, "Sakhalin has one smaller island associated with it, Moneron Island." Ush island might deserve a mention there as well. I'm not planning to do any editing in regard to this, but thought it needed a talk page mention. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 07:07, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Would there be a significant difference between the content of the two articles? If not, it's appropriate to discuss both topics on the same page, otherwise there'd just be a large amount of duplication. CMD (talk) 06:12, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
The oblast also includes the Kuril Islands. There will still, of course, be some duplication between the articles on the island and the oblast, but they should have a completely different focus (the oblast's article should cover the political aspect in great detail and physical geography as a brief overview, while in the island's article the approach is the opposite).—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); January 3, 2013; 13:21 (UTC)
I disagree. In the same way that country articles include a significant section on geography, I'd expect the oblast article to have such a section as well. As for an article focused on the physical geography, that is what would be covered by a Geography of Sakhalin article. CMD (talk) 15:00, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
Not necessarily so. There are many articles that separate geography versus administration, and without the Geography of~ format. See for example Okinawa Island, Okinawa Islands, Okinawa prefecture, and Okinawa, Okinawa; also see Hawaii, Hawaiian Islands, and Hawaii (island). It's a matter of an article about the landmass versus an article about the political entity that occupies the landmass. Boneyard90 (talk) 15:23, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
One of your Okinawa pages is a single island not particularly larger than the others in its island group, one is the island group, one is a prefecture containing more island groups, and one is a city. The geography article for the prefecture appears to be Ryukyu Islands. Hawaii vs Hawaiin islands is a better example, but in this case it remains that Hawaiian Islands is a subarticle of Hawaii. I have no preference for what any article on the physical geography of Sakhalin is called, but I expect it would work as a subarticle of this one, rather than as a parallell article, especially as unlike both those examples a single island absolutely dominates the Sakhalin oblast. This is similar to say Cuba or Iceland, where a single island makes up the vast majority of a political entity of the same name. The current Sakhalin Oblast article covers much of the same information as this article. Merging them would create a single much stronger article. CMD (talk) 15:40, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
Merging them would create unneeded confusion between a political entity (the bulk of information about which should be post-1945, with most other aspects merely a summary) and a geographic entity (the article on which should include information oblast-specific information only as a summary and go into greater details regarding everything else). The Hawaii example is actually a very good analogy—merging the article about the US state with the article about the islands would be a disaster. Treat the island article as a "subarticle" of the oblast article if it helps (and rename it if necessary), but I'd be strongly opposed to treating them as one and the same. What these two articles need is a good makeover and cleanup, not a merger.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); January 3, 2013; 17:12 (UTC)
There isn't any information that applies to the oblast but not the land it's on. You're right about the Hawaii article being a good analogy in the article design aspect, but wrong about where that analogy leads. The Hawaii article, about the US state, includes a geography section (a large one), and a long history section that greatly pre-dates statehood. This article, Sakhalin, looks like that Hawaii article, and a cleanup of the Sakhalin Oblast article would turn it into what is currently on this article. I'm all for creating a page that looks like Hawaiian Islands, but this page isn't it, and Sakhalin Oblast is just a less comprehensive version of this page. CMD (talk) 17:31, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
Actually, that's my point too, more or less (although you are wrong when you say that there is no information about the oblast but not the land it's on—you are forgetting the Kuril Islands, which account for almost 18% of the oblast's total territory; hardly chump change!). Neither article is well-written or has its priorities straight. In my book it means that both articles should be reviewed and cleaned up, perhaps with some parts swapped. Merging everything into the Sakhalin Oblast article would not be a good long-term solution but merely a sloppy short-term fix, that's all I'm trying to say. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); January 3, 2013; 19:22 (UTC)
Ah, I was referring to topics rather than extent, apologies (but even then, isn't the land in the Kuril's land the oblast is on?). As both articles seem lost, merging them seems to be a good solution to this issue to me, as it would make it much easier to assess which information can be split off or otherwise shifted. It's a firm starting point. Also, if there was a merge, it should probably be to this article, as it's slightly older. CMD (talk) 19:37, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
I see your point about firm standing ground, but to me this approach seems more like shooting a sick horse instead of giving it medicine. We already have two separate articles, which were separate for years with no one complaining (I doubt Cuba or Iceland had ever been in this position), and dumping everything together only to split them again later is a horrible, horrible idea in my opinion (if only for reasons of tracking attribution!). What's more, while I agree that both articles are in a sorry state, I disagree that there is no other way to fix them other than starting from a clean slate. On top of that, there is a rather strong consensus that political entities (especially high-level entities such as Sakhalin Oblast... or the State of Hawaii) deserve stand-alone articles, and suggesting that the oblast article should be merged into one that's supposed to be primarily about a geographical entity just doesn't sit well. Why should the article about the Sakhalin Island include information about the economy of the Kurils, for example? An article about the oblast is the ideal place to cover the aspects common to both the Sakhalin Island and the Kurils (such as economy and demographics), without having readers jump from one article to another in order to combine these data. Even Britannica knows better than to combine these two topics in one place! :)
I don't know if you find anything of what I'm saying convincing, but I guess one way to gauge the worthiness of this proposal is by filing a merge request and taking it from there. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); January 3, 2013; 20:18 (UTC)

Climate section neutrality[edit]

"Unpleasantly foggy", "only a few degrees warmer", "persistently wet conditions are ideal for mosquitoes". Unpleasant for who? Only a few - how many? Statements about mosquitoes and snowpacks have no citations. I think the section is written like a personal experience blog. Does anyone disagree this should be corrected? Le Grand Bleu (talk) 22:30, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Total Islands[edit]

According to the {{Infobox islands}}, the "total islands" field is only supposed to be used for archipelagos. As Sakhalin is an island and not an island group, I've removed that field from the infobox to avoid confusion. PaintedCarpet (talk) 15:38, 11 July 2014 (UTC)