Talk:Salishan languages

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Untitled[edit]

I've converted the SAMPA to IPA, but wasn't sure about the ' symbol. It is supposed to represent palatalisation in SAMPA (or X-SAMPA), so I've shown it as ʲ, but I've sometimes seen it used in Sampa as a stress marker (strict SAMPA " ).

Well, this is wrong. I will be removing it. There is another oft quoted word that is much more impressive anyway. — ishwar  (SPEAK) 19:51, 2005 Mar 26 (UTC)

Sinixt? ("Lakes")[edit]

I'd add Sinixt to the list of languages but I'm not sure where it goes; in Okanagan-Colville I think. It was the language spoken in the Arrow Lakes but that nation is officially extinct in Canada, although I understand there are some survivors/inheritors among the Colville or Sanpoil or one of the neighbouring US tribes. Might be considered a dialect of one of those, or of Okanagan. BTW the Nicola Valley name for the Okanagan people there is Syilx (or is it Siylx?)Skookum1 20:55, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Good directory, could use more text/history maybe[edit]

Basically only a directory of links; could use more text/history maybe; list of languages linked here should eventually wind up in this list; I've added Klallam, Lushootseed etc today; others such as Twana need a separate article to be started; in that case Twana redirects to Skokomish (tribe); haven't explored all the links on Salishan languages yet but I suspect it'll be people/language combinations all in need of division, and generally linguistics articles on the sublanguages are lacking, or maybe unnecessary (e.g. with Halkomeylem its three main subdialects do not get separate articles; but with "Kwakiutl" there are separate Kwak'wala, Oowekyala and Heiltsuk articles for languages that probably aren't much different than the Halkomeylem subdialects (Upriver, Downriver and Cowichan/Nanaimo basically). NB existence of Coast Salish article but no Interior Salish. ---- Skookum1 (6 May 06)

Features[edit]

What is a "generalized sound system"?--Al Bargit

Consistency in links![edit]

I just noticed the most recent change:

Columbian (a.k.a. Columbia, Nxaʔamxcín)
[[Upper Columbia United Tribes|Columbian]]''' (a.k.a. Columbia, Nxaʔamxcín)

...and remarked on it for two reasons; one, I've never hear of a people or language named "Columbian" (and I thought I knew my stuff, for a layman) and the other is that the link is not to a language but to a government. Other links are to ethno/people articles, or individual community articles; and in some cases the breakdown is by political affiliation/community, and not by dialect; is Katzie a different dialect of Halqemeylem from Kwantlen, for example, and "Tait" links to that family name; all it is in an Indian Reserve name near Chilliwack, ditto Skway. The links should be to language articles only if they're supposed to represent dialects within the language(s); fine to have a list of which communities/nations speak/use/are associated with which language (or languages, with multi-tribal organizations/agencies/reservations/tribal councils); but a clear delineation should be going on here between language articles/links and those concerning the peoples/communities. This means a lot more articles, because there's language articles needing doing...."false links" give the impression, also, that such articles already exist; better to have redlinks to indicate that they don't...Skookum1 19:45, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, care should be taken to use the native-preferred spellings, vs the linguistics-preferred ones; I have no idea how Nxaʔamxcín would come out, especially if it's extinct, but in the case of Nlaka'pamux their version doesn't look like the one linguists prefer and which is listed here; this gets tanglier when it's an issue of this being English-language Wikipedia vs a wikipedia in any other language (see Talk:Squamish Nation and its corresponding articles linked there, or Kwakiutl language vs the local controversy about whether a certain main article should be Kwakiutl/Kwakawkwa'wakw]], with the implicit debate in that as to whether "Kwakiutl language" is a valid name for an article, or it should be "Kwak'wala" (precedents for the latter case exisst with Nuxalk language and St'at'imcets, instead of "Bella Coola language" and "Lillooet language", for instance - and St'at'imcets isn't even close to traditional anglicizations of "Stlatliumh" and "Stl'atl'imx" so is an imposition of a non-English orthographic system in English. Anyway, just a concern here about preferred forms vs what linguists prefer; I know linguists compiled this page (Hi User:Ish Ishwar, and User:billposer, hoping you'll weigh in on this) but "consistency" across the non-linguistics First Nations/Native American articles is what I'm on about here, and not just abhout titling; as also with the consistency in the links raised in the paragraph above.Skookum1 19:53, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Okanagan language[edit]

Will one of you linguists please write this? It's a big gap in the BC languages coverage in Wikipedia; almost everything else is in there, including several subdialects of Carrier, but there's nothing on Okanagan language (Siylx'tsn by one spelling I've seen), nor on the Okanagan people, either stateside or in the King George Illahee.Skookum1 19:45, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Salish language redirects here[edit]

And maybe not-so-obviously shouldn't; properly "Salish" is the name of the Flathead people; currently their article is the Confederated Tribes of the Flathead and Kootenai Nations article, but it should be broken into ethno articles and there's no separate Salish language aka Flathead language article. All this by way of a discussion concerning the inappropriateness of the name "Salish Sea" for the Georgia Strait-Puget Sound Basin, cf Talk:Strait of Georgia. "Salish" is an ethnographer's/linguist's term that has entered the missconception of the public in thinking there is such a thing as a "Coast Salish nation" or a Coast Salish "ethnicity"; there are individual ethnicities within it, but the Salish Sea discussion has made me realize the actual inappropriateness of the term, as it's originally/properly for the Flathead, and of course simply means "the people" in that language; the relative equivalents here would be the Halkomelem and Lushootseed and North Straits Salish equivalent; of course there is no common term between those languages, either for the term "the people" (and then would mean only themselves, not their neighbours who also, in their own language, call themslves, "the people"), nor for the body of water under name-dispute elsewhere. I know these are impracticable thoughts on the terminology, and "Salishan languages" and "Coast Salish" et al are here to stay; but just a reminder that it's much as misnomer as "Asia" is for China and Japan (Asia originally meant Anatolia and Persia). With all the obsession about linguistic/political correctness, e.g. the change from Kwakiutl to Kwakwaka'wakw and the corrected inapplicability of "Northern Kwakiutl" to the Central Coast Wakashan peoples (Heiltsuk, Owekeeno, Haisla), that the inapporpriateness of "Salish" to coastal peoples, indeed to all non-Flathead peoples, would have "come up by now". Anyway, if there's anyone out there capable of writing a Salish language/Flathead language item, even its outline/stub, please do so.Skookum1 20:47, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Proto-Salish and a few reconstructed items?[edit]

Hello everyone, I'd like to add a few examples from Kuipers's SED, maybe even some regular correspondences, but I have no information on personal pronominal morphemes. Could possibly someone supply it? Many thanks in advance! --Pet'usek [petrdothrubisatgmaildotcom] 09:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I've been cumulating massive evidence for some sort of relationship between Salishan and Yahgan (see Wiki article on misspelled Yaghan Language), found in Tierra del Fuego, thousands of miles to the south, including candidate etymological cognate forms from normal Salishan roots, the lexical affixes, derivational and inflectional forms. Still a number of things point to a creole on the Yahgan side, or language mixture. This is unpublished research (except online, by me, which usually doesn't count here, which is why I'm not posting to the main article). I had been looking at Salishan for years as part of a study on sound symbolism, and had built up my own 'dictionary' before Kuipers' was published (fewer languages, but all the forms from the sources, rather than just roots/bases and a few derivations). Then much later I started working on Yahgan for other reasons. Something in the back of my head clicked when I began to notice things like ProtoSalish (7a)mut 'sit' Yahgan mu:tu: 'sit', ProtoSalishan 7ats'q 'go out', Yahgan atsikv(ri) 'go out' PS suffix -(ala)txw 'roof' Yahgan lateka(n) 'roof'. There are just too many similar forms for accidental relationship, or for a deep one. 67.81.236.32 (talk) 00:15, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Syntax section needs editing[edit]

Quoting: In Central Salish languages like Tillamook and Shuswap....

Neither of these is 'central' in any sense of the word. Shuswap is a Northern Interior Salish language, and Tillamook, depending on who you read, is an outlier Coast Salish language or an independent branch of the Salishan family. 69.121.117.192 (talk) 20:39, 9 July 2013 (UTC)