Talk:Salvinorin B methoxymethyl ether

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Dcirovic (talk) 03:00, 30 December 2012 (UTC)


(non-admin closure)

Requested move[edit]

– As I have noted in two papers on these compounds: "Although MOM-SB has been referred to as “2-methoxymethyl-salvinorin B”, this implies that the substituent is attached at C-2. The compound could be termed 2-O-methoxymethylsalvinorin B, but the simpler “salvinorin B methoxymethyl ether” is also unambiguous, and thus preferred under IUPAC recommendations to omit redundant locants." [ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2745083/ ] and similarly "... the incorrect name `2-methoxymethylsalvinorin B′, implying that the substituent is directly attached to C2, should be avoided." [ http://dx.doi.org/10.1107/S1600536812043449 ] Although the incorrect name has appeared in several papers by non-chemists, no-one has attempted to defend it. Wikipedia could play a useful role in promoting the correct name. Tamunro (talk) 14:40, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Proposed compound names are correct. They are better choices for the article titles. --Dcirovic (talk) 02:30, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merger proposal[edit]

I propose that Salvinorin B ethoxymethyl ether (EOM-SalvB) be merged into Salvinorin B methoxymethyl ether (MOM-SalvB). The reasons are as follows:

  • the two molecules are very nearly chemically identical—they are homologs, and homologs differing only by a single methylene (-CH2-) in their ether protecting groups (ethoxyMe vs methoxyMe);
  • their pharmacologic sites of action are the same, their physiologic effects the same, and their reported activities are same order of magnitude (and perhaps statistically indistinguishable);
  • if left separate, the parties drawn to one page will almost certainly be drawn to the other, because of the commonalities of structure and pharmacology;
  • the existing two articles are very nearly identical, see this and next 5 bullets: e.g., the current opening paragraphs of the articles are all but identical (appendix, common text in bold);
  • there are a total of 8 unique citations, and of these 4 of 4 in the EOM article and 4 of 7 in the MOM article are identical;
  • when the same statements are made in both articles, and when those common statements have inline citations, the citations appearing are the same;
  • the MOM article is better referenced, insofar as identical material appearing in both have inline citations in the MOM that are lacking in the EOM;
  • more critically, if both articles were referenced to comparable quality, each would have 7 citations, and the same 7 identical citations (i.e., the EOM lacks 3 of the relevant citations already placed in the MOM);
  • distinctives of one molecule over the other, both chemically and pharmacologically, are easily capture in 2-3 sentences between the two articles (and so, to start, in the merged article);
  • hence, content in the EOM article can easily be explained in the context of MOM; and
  • both articles are of stub size, so merging the two will not cause article size or undue weight problems.

The merged article's structure—with sections for a common intro, and then, one each for EOM and MOM—alongside, WP search tools can easily lead readers only interested in one or other of two molecules to the appropriate position to begin reading. The alternative to merging is leaving two very closely related stubs in place, one better in quality than the other, and so demanding (i) effort to bring EOM up to MOM quality, and (ii) that updates thereafter, for the most part, be performed twice (or the articles will diverge in relevance and other aspects of quality).

Note, a name change would follow concurrently with the merger, with discussion with the well-versed User:Tamunro and others to determine the final article name. Proposals from me are either

  • "Salvinorin B alkoxymethyl ethers" or, better,
  • "Psychotropically active Salvinorin B derivatives"

The latter is preferred as there is every expectation that further closely related derivatives might be reported, which, if similarly bioactive, could accrue in this article until one or another molecule became of preeminent interest (or other cause for splitting off a particular molecule presents itself).

Bottom line, the information on these two homologs having comparable bioactivities (derived from common references/studies) should appear on the same page, both for reader and editor convenience, and to prevent unnecessary redundancies at Wikipedia. As a chemist which pharmacologic experience, this is a proposal I can make without hesitation.

Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 05:18, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Appendix:

MOM-derivative opening paragraph
Salvinorin B methoxymethyl ether (2-O-methoxymethylsalvinorin B)
is a semi-synthetic analogue of the natural product salvinorin A which is used in scientific research.[1][2] It has
a longer duration of action of around 2–
3 hours,
compared to less than 30 minutes for salvinorin A,[3]
and has increased affinity and potency
at the κ-opioid receptor. Like the related compound herkinorin, salvinorin B methoxymethyl ether
is made from salvinorin B, which is most conveniently made from salvinorin A by deacetylation,[4]
as while both salvinorin A and salvinorin B are found in the plant Salvia divinorum, salvinorin A is present in larger quantities.[5]
EOM-derivative opening paragraph
Salvinorin B ethoxymethyl ether (2-O-ethoxymethylsalvinorin B, symmetry)
is a semi-synthetic analogue of the natural product salvinorin A, with
a longer duration of action of around
3 hours (
compared to less than 30 minutes for salvinorin A),
and increased affinity and intrinsic activity
at the κ-opioid receptor. Like the related compound herkinorin, 2-ethoxymethyl salvinorin B
is made from salvinorin B, which is most conveniently made from salvinorin A by deacetylation,[1]
as while both salvinorin A and salvinorin B are found in the plant Salvia divinorum, salvinorin A is present in larger quantities.[2]

Comments and polling:

Polling and comment template:

  • Please copy the first support entry, edit (vote and comments), and sign. Cheers. [Le Prof]


Oppose:

  • Support. Discussion initiator. Reasons laid out above. Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 05:18, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. Good idea. I support this suggestion. I think "Salvinorin B alkoxymethyl ethers" is a good title; the other would probably be too broad (there are many other classes of derivative). - Thomas Munro
  • Oppose. There are separate articles for mescaline, escaline and proscaline. As for ETH-LAD and LSD. there should be different articles for these two. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.92.48.28 (talk) 02:44, 19 March 2015 (UTC)



Oppose: