Talk:Santiago

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Official Name[edit]

The official name is "Santiago", not "Santiago de Chile" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.68.10.2 (talk) 19:46, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Poor Grammar and Spelling/British or American English?[edit]

Can someone please go through the entire article and correct the appalling grammar and spelling errors? It seems as though single paragraphs have been checked, but the article as a whole is atrocious. The culture section of the article, ironically, is the most poorly written section. On another note, the article does not use a standard variety of English, jumping from American to British English--even within sentences! While I have a preference for American English grammar, spelling and construction, I believe it is up to the community to decide what variety should be preferred. As Chile does not have a tendency to favor either variety, we might be in for a pickle. Yet, it is important that the article is written in a uniform variety, consistent with Wikipedia's standards.| —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.86.3.94 (talk) 07:46, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll add it to the WikiProject Chile's to-do list, since I've got too many things on my own right now. I've heard some templates like {{convert}} enforce British English with kilometres and the like. Being American, I would prefer to Americanize it, but it does not matter really as long as it's consistent. - Ruodyssey (talk) 10:23, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
The Geography section is in especially bad shape, too. It appears in places to have been translated from the Spanish by Google or Babelfish. (And maybe it was. Similarities abound with the Spanish Wikipedia article.) I took a stab at cleaning things up but found myself a bit over my head. It's hard to fix grammar and syntax when you have no idea what the intended meaning is. Someone with a working knowledge of the local geography and a moderate proficiency in English really ought to take a look at it. I do see the occasional discrepancy between British and American English, and we should address those, but they're sort of the tip of the iceberg when there are sentences that make absolutely no sense. Rivertorch (talk) 09:01, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
tourists whom traveled there have associated Santiago as a "Little Europe of the Southern Hemisphere" a title shared with Buenos Aires in nearby Argentina. Every known nationality lives in the city and still it is the hub of a singular homogeneous Chilean national identity (see Culture of Chile). [citation needed]

The removed entry I have copied and pasted here contains some POV. The statement on being multicultural and homogeneous is confusing, since Chileans are notably patriotic and do not flaunt "foreign origin" of their families' ancestry as much like North Americans. The part about having an European enclave mentality is POV and this can be disparaging to many Chileans, due to their mestizo heritage.

Santiago itself is home to some thousands of Chinese, Koreans, more numerous Arab nationalities (notably the Palestinian community is said to exceed nearly all large cities of the West Bank or Gaza), and other ethnic groups. They tend to settle first in Barrio Patronato, the Central district akin to the Lower East Side of New York. It used to be the heart of the Chilean Jewish community.

I sense one traveling in the Southern Hemisphere can find more "European" roots in Argentina, Uruguay, Australia, New Zealand and to some extent South Africa and Brazil, which has tens of millions of "white" European descendants. Santiago is indeed modern, but its much like every Latin American metropolis, even when the economic boom - el Milagro Chileno in the 1980s-1990s and 2000s - had transformed Chile greatly in culture or society, and national politics. Mike D 26 (talk) 09:24, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Though you have a valid point in that Santiago may be overstated by being called a "little Europe," it was and is, nontheless, no stranger to heavy European immigration. A good read is Latin American historian Russel, who was tracked European immigration and development in Santiago. The majority of German-Chileans (biggest immigrant group), Croatian-Chileans, British-Chileans, Spanish-Chileans and other European-Chileans and their descendants live in Santiago; this may be less noticeable than in other cities such as Puerto Montt due to the melting pot nature of Santiago. Another good read is Wikipedia's "Immigration to Chile" article. Please avoid any judgment solely based on personal experience. Remember that Wikipedia references secondary sources (which support the heavy European influence in Santiago claim). --190.45.160.177 (talk) 02:56, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Christ, you're right. I'll get on it. As a mater of fact, I've already fixed like 4-5 mistakes, and I'm not even done with the first paragraph! --MindZiper (talk) 05:03, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

I can't even understand some of what it says. So if someone could help along... that'd be great. --MindZiper (talk) 05:06, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Assessment[edit]

This message is intended for safe-keeping of assessment comments previously made on subpages, specifically Talk:Santiago, Chile/Comments. A discussion in October 2009 concluded with the consensus for discontinuation, and subsequently, the small number of WikiProject Chile articles with comments have had their comments moved to the the talk page. Below is the sole entry from that subpage. - Ruodyssey (talk) 06:25, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Rated Start Plenty of photographs and a lot of written text. Infobox and skyline picture included.
  1. Cite sources for facts stated. At this time, the article is unreferenced. WP:CITET WP:FOOT Alan.ca 23:06, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

File:Plaza italia.GIF Nominated for speedy Deletion[edit]

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File:Plaza_italia.GIF Nominated for speedy Deletion[edit]

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Government-backed censorship of article[edit]

A few months ago, this article was sanitized by somebody who apparently worked for the city of Santiago. This user, User:Robims (who also edited under account User:Robimz) attempted to scrub the article of sections that discussed the less sunny aspects of the city. A likely scenario is that this person works for a department that worries about tourism but it's impossible to know the exact motivation for their edits. The sections were not re-added largely because it was felt they were not well-enough cited.

A couple points to make. 1) Fight government censorship of Wikipedia to its fullest! When it's evident that an account has a biased agenda, as it was in this case, it makes sense to resist their edits. If an official is trying to remove material, try to find sources to prevent its removal. In this case, the material being removed was and is very easy to find references that support it. I would go so far as to say that some of the details removed are among the most prominent things noticed by a new foreign visitor to the city. 2) The usual rules at Wikipedia can be gamed. I don't think the rules were consciously gamed in this case, but effectively that was the result. Since the removed material was not re-added largely because it lacked citations, this left the article mostly only discussing neutral or positive aspects of the city. A Wikipedia article for a city is not a tourism brochure. The article ought to give a real flavor of the city, both positive and negative. In summary, yielding to the government censorship ended up biasing the article even though this was technically "by the rules". In a sense, the censor "won".

The failure here, as I see it, was not taking an aggressive stance against government censorship. The only way to fight government-backed vandalism is to push back. If the propagandist wants to remove information that is likely true, fight it by finding the citations for unsourced material. If censors see that the stove gets hotter every time they touch it, they will eventually stop trying to touch it. Jason Quinn (talk) 16:02, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Regarding Robimz's edits: I did only a partial revert because of lack of sourcing and, as stated in my edit summary, because some of the content didn't appear to be specific to Santiago. (Rich and poor sections, homeless people, and scam artists—oh my! Sounds like thousands of other cities.) In looking over this content again, I see that what I didn't restore to the article consisted primarily of original research, and not even well written original research at that.

You're quite correct that articles shouldn't be tourism brochures, but the way to fix a lopsided article is to add cogent, reliably sourced content to provide balance.

As for Robims/Robimz, while some of their edits were deeply problematic, they were warned for those edits, and they have a grand total of seven contributions between them, none of them very recent. SPI seems like a bit of an overreaction, imo. Rivertorch (talk) 20:21, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

File:Montaje de santiago (2).png Nominated for speedy Deletion[edit]

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PEDRO DE VALDIVIA The founder of Santiago, Pedro de Valdivia, was SPANISH and born in SPAIN, not in Italy. The fact that he led military operations in Italy and other places doesn´t mean he was Italian, or we would say that McArthur was Japanese because he led military operations in Japan?--83.57.225.197 (talk) 02:03, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Climate Section[edit]

I believe Santiago's climate resembles Köppen Csa more so than Csb. I may be wrong, but Csb climates normally have cooler summers than Santiago, don't they ? 161.24.19.112 (talk) 19:07, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

The climate in Santiago is Csb because the average temperature of the warmest month is lower than 22 °C (January has an average of 20.9 °C). This city has a large diurnal temperature variation. The days in January have high temperatures (average: 29.7 °C), but the average nocturnal temperature in this month is cool (13 °C).
However, I think the climate in Santiago could be semi-arid (BSh or BSk), due to its low average precipitation (only 315 mm). Scheridon (talk) 19:48, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Sanhattan[edit]

Mock article Sanhattan does not appear to warrant it's own article. I suggest than all valid info from that article be merged into this one. --Hutcher (talk) 05:09, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

  • Disagree The sources in that article make it clear that the term is really used. Oreo Priest talk 17:11, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit by 201.222.144.196[edit]

An old version of the article was restored by an anonymous IP user, which currently is being copyedited. That edit should have been reverted. Jespinos (talk) 16:56, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

That edit has now been reverted, and a couple of intervening edits were restored. I have also copy edited the page and done other improvements. -- Dianna (talk) 19:14, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

"City"[edit]

In the infobox, a population and land measurement is given for the "city." How is the city defined in the infobox? We've gone over this before, but it should probably be specified in the infobox that this data is either Santiago Province, or the metropolitan area. --Criticalthinker (talk) 02:01, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Urgent Greater Santiago v/s Santiago Final Clarification[edit]

This article needs a definitve clarification between both terms. That's because despite the "Usage note" it's remains unclear: 1. which definition of Santiago the article will follow? 2. Why the introduction seems refers just to the commune and the rest of the article does not. 3. what is (finally) the capital of Chile? (an important question, I think) Santiago the commune? or Greater Santiago? and if it's Santiago the commune, why the article says that it have more tahan 5 millons of inhabitants? so many question.. I'm afraid that will be neccesary an article called "Greater Santigo" to solve this mess (maybe this one). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Foncea (talkcontribs) 06:34, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Improving the article[edit]

I added a clean-up template saying the article needs more inline citations, because it does.

Sections that have some inline citations include:

  • the History section (except for the Population explosion subsection, which doesn't have any inline citations)
  • the Urban issues section (which could stand to be greatly expanded)
  • the Demographics section (the second and fourth paragraphs don't have any, though)
  • the Economy section (except for the Commerce subsection, which doesn't have any)

Sections that have very few inline citations or none at all include:

  • the Usage note section
  • the Geography section
  • the Transport section
  • the Political divisions section
  • the Culture section
  • the Education section
  • the International relations section

Most of the information included in the article in probably correct, but without inline citations, I don't know where the editors who added that information got it from, and nor does anyone else. I would love to improve this article, but as a college student my time is limited.

Anyway, the cleanup template will alert readers and editors that the article is in need of improvement, and I have listed some specific issues above. I've already improved the prose a bit, but the article needs more content and more citations. I will continue to watch this page. AmericanLemming (talk) 23:39, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page[edit]

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Climate classification[edit]

The article cites an average of 360 mm precipitation per year (concentrated in winter). The mean temperature in Santiago is 14ºC. By the Köppen classification the threshold for semi-arid at this temperature / rainy winter regime would be 420 mm. So, wouldn't Santiago actually be a BSk, not Csb (not bordering it, but clearly in it)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.2.160.131 (talk) 00:49, 3 August 2014 (UTC)