Talk:Scythia

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Comment by Roserwilson[edit]

The land like that of Scythia doesnot seem to be that impressive and important to bare eyes on world map since past. But people seems to be too crazy about this newfound land. Many of the people have more than 90 percent of pool of local genes but all those 90 genes prove to be nothing when compared to just 0 to 10 percent of the Scythian (probably fictious) genes in case of many. It seems that lands like Scythia were probably extremely poor which made its inhabitants to migrate to other lands. Can anybody give a brief but impressive account of this precious land. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roserwilson (talkcontribs) 11:58, 26 March 2007

split[edit]

{{split}} from Scythians. dab () 10:33, 5 October 2006 (UTC) the bits that need cleanup were originally posted at Scythian European Kingdoms by Barefact (talk · contribs). dab () 14:11, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Could someone please add information about the customs and culture of Scythians? Xanon

see Scythians, doh

Ali doostzadeh's Lambda[edit]

I suggest that Ali doostzadeh should first provide references representing other exemplars of the Atails' coin demonstrating his alleged spot erasure, to substantiate his stipulation "because pf the a has been erased and thus looks like a lambda". Ali doostzadeh editing war about the name "Atails" tends to show ulterior motives unrelated to the alleged erasure, but directly connected with the actual semantics of the name. ~~~~

what ulterior motives? It's not like a king ATAILS is known besides ATAIAS. We have to trust the specialists of epigraphy, and if those tell us the coin is one of Ataias', I see no reason to doubt that. dab () 14:00, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Ulterior motives is that under a guise of spelling correction to remove undesired contents. I asked for a verifiable reference, not a round about. Here we see a most detested type of falsification: a verbal spin against an artifact, and refusal to substantiate the claim. Ata-ils spelled his name Atails because he called himself with a title-name of a "father of the country", and this fact falls under the ethnic cleansing censorship rules of Iranian censors. Ata is like in Ataturk, ataman, atabek, Atila, and Il is like in Il-Khanids, Itil, Atila, etc., quite transparent and alarming for these censors. The speculation of "mistaken spelling" had soon to be discarded back in 70es with finds of other exemplars. I thought that instead of obvious falsification attempt, the Iranians would turn agains the artifact itself, somehow defaming it to eradicate it completely, or eradicate it by defaming the source. In any case, I trust that Admin is fair and neutral, is helpful to the editors, and afford fair and equal treatment independently of his/hers own beliefs. Barefact 15:52, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
also, I have difficulties believing this is a "personal photograph" of yours. It looks like ripped from a museum site. When and where did you take this picture, Barefact? dab () 14:04, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
This language sounds much lake Kosrow. No, it was not "rripped from a museum site", or even from a museum catalog. I also did not take this picture, it would be a travesty to claim that. These coins widely circulated for about 35 years by now, but I still have yet to see them in a museum catalogue. Its background is like any other coin photograph in WP, see for example "Coin of Azes II, 1st century BCE. Personal photograph, 2005. Released under GDFL." in Scythians. Barefact 15:52, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
what do you mean by "personal photograph" then? Image:AzesII.jpg is an image by PHG (talk · contribs), probably taken in the British Museum. You cannot just copy his description for an image that isn't your own. The image may be released under GFDL by its creator, but we have no way of knowing unless you cite the origin of the image. tagging "unknown". You must have gotten the image somewhere, and simple honesty dictates that you state your source, evn if it is some geocities site or something. dab () 16:03, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
What do you mean "probably taken in the British Museum"? Taking a picture of a coin takes special conditions and skills, and one can't legally take a picture in a museum. Have you inquired PHG (talk · contribs) if he ripped from a museum site? I gave an honest answer to your question, that it was not "ripped from a museum site", or even from a museum catalog. "Personal photograph" is not equivalent to "its creator", you are not saying that all images in Scythians and the rest of WP are by "its creator" or "probably taken in the British Museum"?. I released under GFDL the photograph of Atails coin that is personal photograph and in my best knowledge is not copyrighted. Its authentity can be checked against publications of other exemplars of this coin. Are you also pursuing references for "because pf the a has been erased and thus looks like a lambda", please? What is "pf"? Barefact 00:59, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
"personal photograph" means that you have taken it. Honestly, PHG's credibility is rather better than yours. Look at User:PHG where he clearly states which image he (himself) has taken at which museum (correction, the Azes II coin is in his personal collection). Do not describe an image as a "personal photograph" unless you have taken it. If an image is "not copyrighted", you have no way of releasing it under GFDL. Doing so means that you claim copyright for the image, go and read GFDL. Note that Wikipedia:image use policy is binding, and that you may be blocked from editing for persistently disregarding it. Regarding "Its authentity can be checked against publications of other exemplars of this coin" -- precisely. It is your job to cite such publications, we are not here to clean up after you. dab () 09:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Part of our discussion is shown on my Talk page: Q: "Regarding Image:BC 339KingAteasScythiaAr.gif, why don't you just tell us where you got this image, and which museum is keeping this coin (preferably with its inventory number). dab (?) 08:57, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
and my response: "Regarding Image:BC 339KingAteasScythiaAr.gif, I think that publicizing my sources to the whole world is not fair neither to me nor to my sources."
About museums,I do not remember seeing it personally in museums or museum catalogs. It was published at least twice. If all you wanted for me to cite a publication of other exemplars, you should just have said so. The first find was described by Anokhin in his "Coins of Atey" published in Kiev in 1973. Anybody who follows the Scythian dvelopments has at least an idea about Scythian coins.
I checked the WP references for images you gave me, and did not find that " "personal photograph" means that you have taken it ". Its personal because I personally own it (the photograph, not the coin). As I already responded to you on my Talk page, "I released under GFDL the photograph of Atails coin that is personal photograph and in my best knowledge is not copyrighted." If you think that an alternate tag is more suitable, please advise. In my collection I have other privite photographs that fall into the same category.
For credibility, alidoostzadeh supposition of erased Lanbda without references, or his militant deletion of C14 study by Arizona Universisty about Sayan-Altai unity of the Scythian Kurgans, or his militant insistance that Ossetian developed in Russian neghborhood, the militant deletion of Alinei etymology for the word "kurgan", and a slew of other absurdities evidently have so much credibility that I do not want to have any part of it. Barefact 21:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
To Barefact. Here is a source with coin and king ateas. Do a google search "king atails" and you barely get any bare facts and hits where as King Ateas gives about 768 hits. But do a search for King Ateas and Coin and you even get link to prestigous journals like JSTOR and also coin clubs.[1] [2]. And BTW you have mispronounced many of the names in Herodotus before and thus it is my every right to check and verify each name. --alidoostzadeh 23:27, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for civil response, but please do not switch the subject. The question is not if many writers found in Google use Greek rendition of the Atails' name, but how Atails calls himself on his own coins. This is precisely how it goes with other names, Google gives more responses to Darius than to Darayawush. But that does not give you a right to distort his name to Darayabush or Darayaiaush just because you do not like the implications of correct rendition. In addition, the fake is clearly evident to anybody familiar with Cyrillics, Greek, etc. You could have added a dissenting comment (with a source) instead of disgraceful war. Your "correction" displays an ulterior motive that dab is assuring us has nothing to do with your convictions, but gosh, it really smells it. To call my spelling "horrible" and then to find an only mistake, and that precisely in the Atails name, in my modest opinion is self-deprecating. Barefact 21:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Nope, I did not find any coin sites that refer to the coin as Atails. Also I am not talking about spelling mistakes, but your disfiguration of several names from Herodotus. After correcting those, I corrected the coin as well. As you can see the first A is totally wiped out as well. If you have a problem with that, bring a reputable coin site. --alidoostzadeh 14:57, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
The question is not if coin sites refer to the coin as Atails, but how Atails calls himself on his own coins. Barefact 08:24, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Ateas is not alive. So we go with the coin site. --alidoostzadeh 17:10, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment "Spread of Eastern Iranian languages" on the Scythia Map[edit]

Dbachmann, I already addressed once the comment which was added in the Revision as of 07:02, 6 October 2006 (edit). While the political area of the Scythian dominance may be correct, the statement that this is a predominantly linguistic area is not supported by artifacts with written evidence, and in light that that huge area produced many peoples speaking various and different languages from different families of languages makes this comment offensive to the people who continue living in this territory and continue speaking their different languages, and displays an unbalanced perspective. Barefact 22:18, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

What matters is what scholars have consistently say and not what one person in some group (I am assuming you are a tatar) might find offensive. It is about facts and what scholars (not you or I) say DIRECTLY (and not cut and pasting this word and that word from each scholars without looking at the rest and then reaching the wrong conclusion) say. The linguistic evidence that the original Scythians spoke an eastern Iranian language is today accept by all scholars. I can bring close to 50, but so far I have brought some of the best known names. Britannica 2006 also clearly says eastern Iranian people. I think with websites like [www.turkicworld.org], you can possibly think about speaking about balanced and unbalanced. --alidoostzadeh 15:01, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Concern is that the area shown on the map had many different languages from different families of languages, only Caucasus had reported to have 360 languages, and the indigenous people that inhabited N.Pontic are thought of as speaking non-Scythian languages before the advance of the Scythians. The comment "Spread of Eastern Iranian languages" on the Scythia Map is false, independently from the language of Scythians. Barefact 08:34, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Actually the discussion is about the language of Scythians not all the languages of that area. Sure there was other languages in the area as well which we know nothing about today since they left no remnants from that time. --alidoostzadeh 17:11, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

си вси звахутьс̑ Великаӕ Скуфь[edit]

The last historical source "В лѣто . ҂s҃ . у҃ . е҃ı ... си вси звахутьс̑ Великаӕ Скуфь" 907 AD ... they all call themself Great Skuth Do somebody object this historical source, if so why? Nasz 10:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Russian зовутся is not just "call themselves", but also "are calling by sombody"
In this source we read also
сѧ зовѧху ѿ Грѣкъ Великаӕ Скуфь
The Greeks call them Great Scythia Greek: Σκύθαι
But present-day: English Scythians, Russian Скифы, Esperanto Skitoj.
Notice that Latin letter "y", if somebody read it like Cyrillic "у" will be "u". Probably there is place to mistake in old source, if writer didn't :: knows foreign languages. Also there is a long chain of copyists --Aleks Revo 20:59, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
See http://litopys.org.ua/ipatlet/ipat02.htm and http://litopys.org.ua/ipatlet/ipat01.htm --Aleks Revo 21:05, 7 September 2007 (UTC) Changed --Aleks Revo 00:10, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Near Eastern population -- references?[edit]

I challenge this comment as unsourced:

"In ancient Palestine a Scythian and Thracian population inhabited the lands between the Dead Sea and the Sea of Galilee from circa 5th century BC. According to biblical references, the Scythians there took part in many significant events such as the introduction of the Ark into Jerusalem by King David, and conflicts between Romans and Jews."

If there's a reference, great, but I can see none. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.200.76.62 (talk) 17:20, 30 June 2011 (UTC)