Talk:Seasonal flows on warm Martian slopes

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Alternative hypotheses?[edit]

Are there any alternative hypotheses for the streaks proposed in the scientific literature? 68.195.118.202 (talk) 22:29, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes, this evidence is falsifiable, which by its nature ensures an alternative will appear. But it seems like this is very very new evidence, and will have to be confirmed many times over before we are certain. Considering that, it will likey be about a fair bit longer until an actual critique can be meaningful; cant work on a counter-hypothesis if the hypothesis hasnt been fully examined after all. So, yeah, as soon as such information becomes available we'll definetly put it up, but that could be quite some time. or tomorrow. hard to say really. Science is weird like that.

74.132.249.206 (talk) 02:13, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Merger proposal[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result of this discussion was to not merge. BatteryIncluded (talk) 14:21, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

I propose that Martian Gullies be merged into Seasonal flows on warm Martian slopes. The reason is that the material is duplicated. One difference is that the Martian Gullies article assumes the gullies are formed by brine, while the Seasonal flows on warm Martian slopes article seems neutral and mentions other hypotheses on their cause. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 17:00, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Strong oppose. These are fundamentally different things. People have speculated that seasonal flows could carve gullies, but this remains relatively open. "Seasonal flows" specifically refers to the dark streaky linear patterning that can be seen seasonally below headwalls in certain, thus far restricted locations on Mars. "Gullies" are the densely branched, hourglass shaped structures which are widespread in the midlats. Changes are seen in gullies, but no-one has ever seen what you could argue is seasonal (year-cyclic) change. The arguments over gully formation are still ongoing, and I'm convinced we shouldn't convolve the two. That said, the gully article needs a cleanup (I'll try the weekend) and I've not read the seasonal flows article in detail, but I daresay it's probably also not 100% clear on this distinction. DanHobley (talk) 17:35, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
Strong oppose Seasonal flows are not Gullies, simple as that. Different phenomena. Robert Walker (talk) 21:39, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
Oppose - FWIW - my thinking at the moment => seems the "Martian Gullies" article is about physical characteristics of Mars whereas the "Seasonal flows on warm Martian slopes" article is more about processes occuring on Mars instead - although the articles seem similar in some ways, maybe they're sufficiently different to remain separate? - and not merged - comments from others may be helpful with this of course - in any case - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 17:52, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
In favor - Features & cause of the same subject: As Dan points out, the dark streaks and gullies are the features of flows. A similar merge antecedent that comes to mind are the Dark dune spots and Martian spiders features which were merged to Martian geysers, the alleged cause of said features. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 18:17, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
Comment 1 - I'm not familiar with any paper arguing gullies are seasonally active. Not even for a single site (do you have one, BI?). Carved by wet flows, yes, but not actual proof of seasonality. Even modern activity remains contentious, no? The true "seasonal flows" have documentation of wetting in summer, fading in winter. Gullies don't. Comment 2 - Not all gullies result from seasonal flows, and moreover, and more importantly, not all seasonal flows are gullies. With the spiders, all spiders are formed by geysers, and this hypothesis is well accepted by the community. Just food for thought. DanHobley (talk) 01:05, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
Further comment (I'm full of them today, apparently?) - IMO, the thing that actually does map one-to-one onto the features discussed in that seasonal flows article are Recurring Slope Lineae, as described at Dark_slope_streak#Recurring_slope_lineae_(warm-season_flows). If you are really set on some merging, the seasonal flows article should be renamed "Recurring slope lineae". That's what it's about, not gullies! I note the explicit sentence in the flows article: "Also, while gullies are abundant on cold, pole-facing slopes, these dark flows are on warmer, equator-facing slopes." DanHobley (talk) 01:15, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.


News from NASA[edit]

December 10, news from NASA: "NASA Mars Spacecraft Reveals a More Dynamic Red Planet" "Seasonal Changes in Dark Marks on an Equatorial Martian Slope" http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2013-361&1&utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NASAJPL&utm_content=releases20131210 -cHEERS, BatteryIncluded (talk) 22:16, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

FWIW - News seems *very* interesting imo - if not aware, related ref was added to article several days ago => < ref name="NASA-20131210">Webster, Guy; Brown, Dwayne (December 10, 2013). "NASA Mars Spacecraft Reveals a More Dynamic Red Planet". NASA. Retrieved December 10, 2013. </ref> - thanks for reminding me - may have to take a closer look at first opportunity - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 00:38, 18 December 2013 (UTC)