Talk:Seattle Seahawks

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Seahawks' "alternate" uniform[edit]

Since I'm getting conflicting reports that the 'Hawks may not reveal these uniforms until the 2010 season, I think it is better that the 3rd lime green uniform is removed until the Seahawks release an official statement. Thank you. Johnny "Seoul" Factor 16:34, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

  • Chris Berman from ESPN is reporting that the Seahawks will wear the green uniforms for the 2009 season. He stated this during the Week 3 predictions of his 2-Minute Drill portion of SportsCenter. Johnny "Seoul" Factor (talk) 23:42, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
  • And just think: Uni Watch had a role in this. Funky on Flames (user;talk;edits) 15:11, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
    • UniWatch had ZERO role in this. The alternate uniform leaked out after the 2008 season and somehow UniWatch got a hold of it but thought it was fake. They went on to post the uniform as an April Fools Joke. Ironically, the uniform was 100% legit. The joke was on UniWatch afterall. Johnny "Seoul" Factor (talk) 17:48, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Info requested[edit]

I'm just trying to find out what the Seahawks did during the season when Qwest Field was being built and the Kingdome was gone. Did they go on a longer road trip or was Qwest built that fast? I haven't seen this info in the history article, or the kingdome or qwest articles. Redwolf24 (talk) 12:59, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

The information, which was moved to here, states: "For the 2000-2001 seasons the Seahawks moved to Husky Stadium while their new stadium was being built." Zzyzx11 (talk) 19:36, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
Ah, that's right. 67.160.11.244 (talk) 01:33, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

SEAHAWKS FIRST APPEARANCE IN NFC NOT LISTED IN League/conference affiliations RIGHT HAND BOX[edit]

SEAHAWKS FIRST APPEARANCE IN NFC NOT LISTED IN League/conference affiliations RIGHT HAND BOX

I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS COULD HAVE BEEN LEFT OUT. IT IS DISCUSSED IN THE ARTICLE ITSELF:

The Seahawks are the only NFL team to switch conferences twice in the post-merger era. The franchise began play in 1976 in the NFC West division but switched conferences with the Buccaneers after one season and joined the AFC West. This realignment was dictated by the league as part of the 1976 expansion plan, so that both expansion teams could play each other twice and every other NFL franchise once during their first two seasons.

WILL GO AHEAD AND FIX IT NOW. PLEASE DISCUSS WHY THIS WAS NOT CORRECT IN THE FIRST PLACE! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.222.227 (talk) 06:00, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


NEVER MIND GUYS. MY BAD. LOOKS LIKE IT WAS THERE, BUT WAS NOT IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER BUT BY CONFERENCE INSTEAD, WHICH MAKES IT TOUGH TO FOLLOW AND DETERMINE THE HISTORY OF THE TEAM. I WENT AHEAD AND LEFT MY CHANGES IN PLACE AND THE OPERATORS CAN GO AHEAD AND CHANGE THEM BACK IF NEED BE, BUT I RECOMMEND CHORNOLOGICAL ORDER, PLEASE! THANK YOU AND SORRY FOR MY ERROR. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.222.227 (talk) 06:06, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Seattle Seahawks templates[edit]

OK, so I spent almost the last half hour working on changing background colors on a couple of Seahawks templates after they got new uniforms today. I don't know if I did it right or not, I just hope I did. If not could I get a little help because this Template:NFLPrimaryColor thing has been a pain for me. — Michael (talk) 02:53, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

New uniforms added to template. JohnnySeoul (talk) 04:20, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
We're gonna need to new Seahawks logo as well. — Michael (talk) 04:50, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Loud Fan/Statium Citation[edit]

There is an "according to whom?" on the section about loudest fans.

On the century link wiki, citation #71 has a link to an article where the dB was measured. Between Century link and arrowhead, one of these stadiums is the loudest in the NFL. That may not translate to loudest fans of necessity, but perhaps it could be reworded "home to arguably the loudest stadium in the NFL" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CenturyLink_Field) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.185.77.234 (talk) 21:51, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Criteria for Notable Stars[edit]

There seems to be some debate if Russell Wilson should be included in the list of Seahawks "notable stars". He's been added and removed a couple of time. On one hand he has only completed one season. On the other he is nationally known as one of the top three QBs from the 2012 draft, set some "notable" NFL and team records, and went to the Pro Bowl. At this point I would guess he is probably more well known than Joe Nash or Brian Blades who are both on the list. I think my vote would be to add/keep him on the list. HappyMonkeyPaul (talk) 19:44, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I think the bigger debate is why Warren Moon is listed... he played two partial seasons for the hawks, he made his hall of fame career in Houston and Canada. Period. It needs to get cleaned up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.129.66.30 (talk) 04:03, 6 February 2014 (UTC) We also have (unlinked) Brandon Browner, who has been overshadowed by Marcus Trufant and Richard Sherman for almost his entire career. Specific criteria? SeanTheSwan (talk) 15:48, 28 April 2014 (UTC)SeanTheSwan

A year ago, June 2013:
The Seahawks have had some notable stars on the team, such as Steve Largent, Jim Zorn, Dave Krieg, Kenny Easley, Curt Warner, Joe Nash, Brian Blades, Cortez Kennedy, Joey Galloway, Warren Moon, Walter Jones, Shaun Alexander, Matt Hasselbeck, Russell Wilson and Marshawn Lynch.

Present, June 2014: (changes in bold)
Over the years the Seahawks have had some notable players on the team, such as Steve Largent, Dave Brown, Jim Zorn, Dave Krieg, John Randle, Kenny Easley, Curt Warner, Joe Nash, Brian Blades, Cortez Kennedy, Joey Galloway, Warren Moon, Walter Jones, Steve Hutchinson, Jerry Rice, Shaun Alexander, Matt Hasselbeck, Marcus Trufant, Marshawn Lynch, Percy Harvin, Earl Thomas, Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Brandon Browner and Russell Wilson.

Aside from the sentence being...weak, I'd propose a minimum of two Pro Bowl selections as a Seahawk, which removes Zorn, Nash, Blades, Galloway, Moon, AND Randle, Rice, Trufant, Harvin, Sherman, Chancellor, and Browner. UW Dawgs (talk) 21:03, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

My God the notable players list is filled with Hall of Famers that made their names ON OTHER TEAMS. Jerry Rice never played a single down for the Seahawks in the regular season. John Randle? Warren Moon? They are notable, but they didn't make significant contributions to the Seahawks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.94.220.17 (talk) 15:03, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Radio Network[edit]

I propose deleting the comment that the Seahawks network is the largest by area in the NFL. No citation has been provided to support such a claim, and it appears extremely dubious considering that the Dallas Cowboys radio network covers 37 states and multiple cities in Mexico. --Macae (talk) 01:04, 09 October 2013 (UTC)

I suggest that, before making claims that the Seahawks Radio network is the largest, or among the largest, we need a citation stating such in order to provide verifiability as required by wikipedia. Considering that both the Raiders and the 49ers broadcast to more states than the Seahawks, the claim of being one of the largest seems dubious.

--Macae (talk) 13:24, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Rivalries[edit]

I propose we add the New Orleans Saints as a Seahawks Rival. Particularly as a result of the 2010 Season playoff game, Drew Brees being a hero to Russell Wilson, the 2013 season divisional playoff game. It seems to me that there's more than enough reason to include the Saints as a rival. The other I suggest we add are the Green Bay Packers.2601:8:9E80:578:225:FF:FE44:8B9F (talk) 06:41, 26 January 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elmorus91 (talkcontribs) 00:42, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Super Fans??[edit]

Someone should add superfans to the lore section on the link box. (i.e SeaHulk, Mama Blue, etc.) SeanTheSwan (talk) 18:31, 1 February 2014 (UTC)SeanTheSwan

Updates[edit]

Need to add Walter Jones to HOF list!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mstoelinga (talkcontribs) 18:16, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 February 2014[edit]

Seattle Seahawks Superbowl Champions is 2014 not 2013 65.184.130.34 (talk) 03:18, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Not done: I believe that 2013 is referring to the football season, not the year the Super Bowl took place.

Semi-protected edit request on 3 February 2014[edit]

Stop talking about the cowboys Realkite (talk) 05:58, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please make your request in a "change X to Y" format. Roborule (talk) 23:32, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 February 2014[edit]

Please change the 2005 opponent under "Super Bowl Appearences". The 2005 Super Bowl opponent was not the Chicago Bears but the Pittsburgh Steelers DJ Bocca (talk) 13:59, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Not done: I am unsure where you are getting this information. In the 2005 season Super Bowl the Seahawks played the Steelers.

Contested deletion[edit]

This page should not be speedily deleted because... (your reason here) --2601:0:A680:28F:5D0A:E2A9:843E:134D (talk) 23:58, 3 February 2014 (UTC)we learn about football from these pages. Needed knowledge.

"12th Fan" moniker for fans[edit]

I have twice added information that the Seahawks fans are also referred to as the "12th Fan". Both times they have been deleted by the same editor even though multiple sources have been provided corroborating the "12th Fan" usage. The majority of those sources are both verifiable and reliable also. The reality is that, because of the "12th Man" licensing agreement, Seattle fans cannot be referred to as the "12th Man" for commercial purposes and therefore have instead been referred to as "12th Fan" instead. I welcome any suggestions as to different ways to word the section but please do not delete the addition without first discussing and attempting to generate some consensus decision on this talk page. Macae (talk) 21:19, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm glad you are now engaging in discussion, after three previous unanswered posts to your Talk page attempting to engage in WP:BRD. Please read WP:V and WP:BURDEN.
Your edit(s) created the following statement:

Seahawks fans are known collectively as the "12th Fan",[2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11]

Ignoring WP:Citation overkill, for each of your citations (shown below), would you please quote from your citation to explain how the above statement is supported both in your view and in accordance with WP:BURDEN. UW Dawgs (talk) 22:53, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
  1. http://www.mediotiempo.com/mas-deportes/nfl/noticias/2014/02/02/seres-alados-hacen-retumbar-el-metlife-stadium
  2. http://www.westseattleherald.com/2014/01/30/news/slideshow-largest-12-flying-flag-goes-west-seattl
  3. http://briarcliff.dailyvoice.com/news/briarcliff-teenage-curler-stopera-places-second-nationals
  4. http://www.seahawks.com/news/articles/article-1/12th-Fan-View---NFC-Championship-vs-49ers/36228570-eec2-4783-8c72-8b6f0a67a5fe
  5. https://www.google.com/#q=%2212th+fan%22&safe=off&tbm=shop
  6. http://blog.seattlepi.com/football/2014/01/24/huge-banner-fan-signatures-to-fly-over-seattle-seahawks-in-super-bowl/
  7. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/alaska-airlines-and-seattle-seahawks-quarterback-russell-wilson-launch-12th-fan-rescue-contest-239116121.html
  8. http://www.pemco.com/seahawks/default.aspx
  9. http://www.seahawksstoreonline.com/12th-fan-jersey/
  10. http://myeverettnews.com/2014/01/30/several-seahawks-12th-fan-events-around-everett-friday/
I would suggest going to the talk page of this article rather than my personal talk page as I believe it will become easier to get a group consensus/agreement.
I don't argue that there is citation overkill. But it was done as a result of your apparent rejection of the previous source citations. I welcome your trimming down of those citations to include only those most appropriate.
As far as the support from each source -
www.mediotiempo.com - A subsidary of Time Warner which refers (in Spanish) to fans of the Seahawks as the "12th Fan". I believe the source to be reliable and verifiable.
www.westseattleherald.com - A professional newspaper with a professional journalist working for the newspaper who states that the flag is a "12th Fan" flag. It does not require any speculation to recognize that the flag with the number 12 is referencing the fans of the Seahawks. I believe the source to be reliable and verifiable.
www.seahawks.com - posted on the seahawks official website which I consider to be reliable. I don't believe that there is any doubt that the author is a Seahawks fan, and he is refering to his seat in the stadium as the "12th Fan" view. He is therefore refering to the fan's seating as the 12th Fan's view. That leaves zero doubt or speculation requirement to determine that he is linking the Seahawk fans to the "12th Fan" moniker.
www.google.com - Multiple shopping sites include some official NFL and Seahawks sites which I consider to be reliable and verifiable. Shirts are referred to as "12th Fan" shirts and are obviously intended for Seahawks fans. I don't believe that anyone would argue that the shirts were referencing the "12th Man" if they had the number 12 and "Man" listed on top, and don't believe it requires any speculation to recognize that the jerseys as designed are similarly evidence of the "12th Fan" moniker.
blog.seattlepi.com - The banner had the signature of thousands of people, and I don't think anyone will argue that those people were Seahawks fans. In calling the banner the "12th Fan Banner", the company was referencing those fan signatures and therefore referring to those fans as the "12th Fan". I consider this source to be both reliable and verifiable.
www.prnewswire.com - I consider this to be reliable and verifiable. The article specifically states that they are looking for fans of the Seahawks and the flight is referred to as the "12th Fan Rescue". Those being rescued are therefore being referred to as "12th Fans" and are Seahawks fans.
www.seahawksstoreonline.com - Another reliable and verifiable source. Shirts intended obviously for Seahawks fans which include the number 12 and the name "Fan" above it where the name of a person typically is placed, making it clear that it is an attempt to referrence the "12th Fan".
/myeverettnews.com - Another verifiable and reliable source. In this story, it is stated that there will be a "12th Fan" rally. The story makes it clear that the rally is for Seahawks fans and therefore, in using the term "12th Fan rally", is referring to the Seahawks fans as "12th Fans".
And finally, a citation that I didn't include but perhaps should - https://tagboard.com/12thFAN - performing an internet check of the hashtag term "12th Fan", we see that there are hundreds (if not thousands) of references to this term, everyone of which is referrencing the Seattle Seahawks and their fans. It is obviously clear that the term is being associated with the Seahawks fans... by those fans. Macae (talk) 14:51, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Note, you appear to be violating two of three core content policies of Wikipedia, WP:Verifiability and WP:No original research.
WP:BURDEN reads in part:
* Any material lacking a reliable source directly supporting it may be removed and should not be replaced without an inline citation to a reliable source. (emphasis is mine)
* The burden of identifying a reliable source lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and is satisfied by providing any reliable source that directly supports the material. (emphasis is Wikipedia's)
WP:NOTRELIABLE reads in part:
"The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist.[1] This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position not advanced by the sources." (emphasis is mine)
Additionally, some of your citations inherently fail WP:SPS. So again, please provide a full quote from any WP:V source(s) which directly supports all components of your edit of,
Seahawks fans are known collectively as the "12th Fan",
Thank you. UW Dawgs (talk) 19:38, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
I believe the sources I have sited DO directly support the "12th Fan" moniker and that it requires no original research to reach such a conclusion. Two of the sources specifically refer to Seahawks fans as the "12th Fan" and the others require no speculation as to who is being referenced and are self-evident. Macae (talk) 17:40, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
Since you are unwilling to quote, specifically which two? UW Dawgs (talk) 17:54, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
www.mediotiempo.com - "El CenturyLink Field presume ser el estadio más ruidoso; “The 12th Fan” demostró que no es inmueble el que causa temblores en la región de Seattle..."
http://briarcliff.dailyvoice.com/news/briarcliff-teenage-curler-stopera-places-second-nationals - ""It was a cool environment," Stopera said. "Seattle calls itself the 12th fan, so there was '12' everywhere.""
This is directly quoted WP:RSOPINION from a WP:NOTRELIABLE 16 year old, not stated or advanced by The Daily Voice. Therefore this edit involves (prohibited) WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH ("This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position not advanced by the sources."). UW Dawgs (talk) 21:10, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
I disagree with your claim that this source is not reliable. Nothing in WP:NOTRELIABLE indicates that this source would fit that definition, and it also does not involve any original research. Macae (talk) 22:34, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
You misread. The citation does NOT support the edit of "Seahawks fans are known collectively as the '12th Fan'," per The Daily Voice. It instead supports a WP:RSOPINION from a 16 year old (name is irrevelant) who stated that "Seattle calls itself the 12th fan, so there was '12' everywhere."
For example, if the NY Times published, "John Smith stated, 'The world is flat.'"
You could state:
John Smith believes the world is flat.<ref>NY Times</ref>
You could NOT state:
The world is flat.<ref>NY Times</ref>
Identically, this citation doesn't support the existing edit. It clearly requires WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH to generalize and extend the quote into an unqualified blanket statement. UW Dawgs (talk) 05:42, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
And another one which I did not add due to citation overkill (but feel free to add if you prefer) is http://www.clearwatercasino.com/whats-happening/12th-man-tickets/ - "Tribute to the 12th fan! Clearwater is giving away Suite tickets for the Jan. 19 Playoff game at the Clink! Wear a hawks jersey and get an additional 5 entries (once per day)" Macae (talk) 18:03, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
A casino website is not a reliable source. The edit is using a WP:SELFPUBLISHED, WP:NOTRELIABLE source in support of WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH.
Again, WP:BURDEN clearly states, "Any material lacking a reliable source directly supporting it may be removed and should not be replaced without an inline citation to a reliable source." UW Dawgs (talk) 21:10, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
Normally I would agree that the site would be classified as not-reliable. However, when making a statement as to nicknames applied to fans, the casino's reference to "12th Fan" IS reliable since it represents a verifiable usage of "12th Fan" to reference the Seahawks fans. Instead, that source validates as factual the statement that Seahawks fans ARE being referred to by at least some sources/groups as the "12th Fan". Macae (talk) 22:34, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
WP:NOTRELIABLE reads (in part), "Questionable sources are those that ... lack meaningful editorial oversight" and "Questionable sources should only be used as sources of material on themselves, especially in articles about themselves" (emphasis is mine). If you would like to expound on the casino website's "meaningful editorial oversight," please continue. UW Dawgs (talk) 05:42, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
If you have evidence that the cited website doesn't have editorial insight or any other reason that it should be regarded as a questionable source, please provide that evidence. Furthermore, in referencing the Seattle fans as the "12th Fan", the website IS referring to the fans as the "12th Fan". The very existence of that webpage therefore verifies the claim that the fans are also referred to by that moniker.
You removed the "12th Fan" reference in the article even though multiple citations have been presented supporting the label. So far, you are the only one who has suggested that any of the citations aren't valid, and I have responded to those that you claimed to be invalid. As such, I believe it to be inappropriate to unilaterally remove the reference in the article. Macae (talk) 15:22, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Per WP:BURDEN, there was not one WP:V provided citation which directly supported the new statement. Reference a full sentence(s) quote in direct support from any, and we can, again, discuss further. Instead, there were only WP:NOTRELIABLE, WP:SPS, and WP:NOR. UW Dawgs (talk) 15:46, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Of course there was and they have been previously discussed on this talk page. Just out of curiosity, is your belief that "12th Fan" is never used to refer to the Seahawk fans? Or that you believe that such is the case but simply that you don't think any of the citations back up that fact? Macae (talk) 17:00, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

12th Fans, again[edit]

This is in regards to the ~fifth round of editing to push the following statement (or similar variants):

Seahawks fans are known collectively as the ... "12th Fan"

Each occurance has engaged the submitting editor via Talk pages.

WP:SPS says in part:
Anyone can create a personal web page or publish their own book, and also claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published media, such as books, patents, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, personal or group blogs (as distinguished from newsblogs, above), Internet forum postings, and tweets, are largely not acceptable as sources.

WP:NOR says in part:
Wikipedia articles must not contain original research. The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist. This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position not advanced by the sources. To demonstrate that you are not adding OR, you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented.

WP:BURDEN says in part:
Attribute all quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged to a reliable, published source using an inline citation. Cite the source clearly and precisely (specifying page, section, or such divisions as may be appropriate). The citation must clearly support the material as presented in the article. Any material lacking a reliable source directly supporting it may be removed and should not be replaced without an inline citation to a reliable source. The burden of identifying a reliable source lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and is satisfied by providing any reliable source that directly supports the material.

The three citations are:

1. http://www.mediotiempo.com/mas-deportes/nfl/noticias/2014/02/02/seres-alados-hacen-retumbar-el-metlife-stadium
Needs to establish Wikipedia:V and quote per WP:BURDEN, as this document is in Spanish.

Per WP:NOENG please quote and establish the WP:SOURCE. UW Dawgs (talk) 16:01, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

2. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/alaska-airlines-and-seattle-seahawks-quarterback-russell-wilson-launch-12th-fan-rescue-contest-239116121.html
Per About, PRNewswire.com is a clearing house of press releases. Press releases are inherently WP:NOTRELIABLE ("Questionable sources are those that have a poor reputation for checking the facts, lack meaningful editorial oversight, or have an apparent conflict of interest. Questionable sources should only be used as sources of material on themselves, especially in articles about themselves; see below. They are not suitable sources for contentious claims about others.").

Additionally, the two instances of "12th fan" therein, state precisely and only:
"Alaska Airlines and Seattle Seahawks Quarterback Russell Wilson Launch '12th Fan Rescue' Contest"
"In "Russell's 12th Fan Rescue" contest, Seahawk fans are asked to submit video links, pictures or stories showing their Seahawk pride wherever they live."
both require prohibited WP:OR ("To demonstrate that you are not adding OR, you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented."). This is a press releases from a third-party business which cites ONLY the name of their contest. It does not directly support the associated statement, as is required. Regardless, this point is moot as this WP:SPS source is inherently prohibited. UW Dawgs (talk) 22:35, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

3. http://myeverettnews.com/2014/01/30/several-seahawks-12th-fan-events-around-everett-friday/

Per the blog's About ("Since I’m not on the radio anymore I’m no longer using my radio name but decided I wanted to keep my reporting skills up by writing this blog.") this source is prohibited WP:SPS ("For that reason, self-published media, such as books, patents, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, personal or group blogs (as distinguished from newsblogs, above), Internet forum postings, and tweets, are largely not acceptable as sources.") UW Dawgs (talk) 22:35, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Regarding the mediotiempo citation, we have previously discussed both verifiability and burden. Regarding it being in Spanish... As per Wikipedia, citations in English are preferred but not required.
Regarding the press release clearing house concern, there are other citations that can be used. I will replace this citation with one from the Wall Street Journal that covers the same story. As far as the story itself goes, no original research is necessary in order to recognize that the intent of the promotion was to fly Seahawks fans to the game and that, as per the title of the contest, those fans were being referred to as the "12th Fan".Macae (talk) 14:22, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

I am seeing lots of references to Seahawks fans being referred to as the "12s". What are your thoughts on including some citations supporting that label also?Macae (talk) 14:42, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Two new citation have been added:
http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20140110-911743.html
Note this is also explicitly marked "Press Release" ("SEATTLE, Jan. 10, 2014 /PRNewswire/") and suffers the identical defects as the above prneswire.com. This third party's chosen name for their particular contest isn't in dispute.
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/From-ash-to-glass-Seattle-company-makes-art-from-ashes-249362491.html
Says explicitly and only:
"Teacher Crystal Flint of Seattle chose two hearts for her grandparents, who died within about a week of one another. Flint often brings the heart she made for her grandfather to work, because he was a huge supporter of education. She brought the heart made for her grandmother, Linda, to the Super Bowl, fulfilling a longtime dream for a lifelong Seahawks fan. The back is stamped with a raised '12' - for the ultimate 12th Fan."
Does not support the sentence per WP:BURDEN and clearly fails WP:NOR. UW Dawgs (talk) 16:01, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Regarding the WSJ citation. There is no restriction on news released/cited by news organizations as long as there is meaningful editorial oversight. The Wall Street Journal provides such oversight and the reference is therefore a valid citation.
Did you fully read the WSJ citation before submitting? It is a press release. It explicitly states "The Wall Street Journal news department was not involved in the creation of this content." The press release identifies the name of the Alaska Airline's contest and is a terrific source for this (alone). However, it is clear WP:OR to synthesize this one-time contest name an into broad characterization of a group over time. You need an encyclopedic source for this. UW Dawgs (talk) 16:31, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
And with regards to the KOMO citation, KOMO is both a reliable source, and clearly is referencing Seahawks fans in referring to the "12th Fan". No original research is necessary in order to verify that statement.
Again, KOMO is a (generally) a reliable source. However, the citation makes ZERO broad statements, which directly support

Seahawks fans are known collectively as the ... "12th Fan"

If you feel otherwise, please specifically quote (as I did above) where Seahawks fans are broadly identified as the "12th fan" by the article. Absent directly supporting content, the citation is WP:OR. UW Dawgs (talk) 16:31, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Finally, with regards to the Spanish citation, wiki policy states that it is acceptable to provide the translation within the article, as a footnote, or as part of the talk page. In order not to unnecessarily clutter up the article itself, it is probably easiest to provide the translation here. The pertinent portion of the article translates as follows - "Century Link Field is assumed to be the most loud stadium; "The 12th Fan" demonstrated that it was not the building/land which causes earthquakes in Seattle..." Macae (talk) 18:22, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Again, yes, but see WP:NOENG and establish the WP:SOURCE. UW Dawgs (talk) 16:31, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
If helpful, see how the three existing citations for "12th man" directly support the statement -each is even placed as the first sentence of an entire article which directly supports the content.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/26/sports/football/seahawks-mania-bigger-than-us-can-contain.html
VANCOUVER, British Columbia — During the N.F.C. championship game last Sunday, die-hard fans draped in navy blue and neon green, part of a group collectively known as the 12th Man,
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/hold-seismometer-loud-seattle-article-1.1571671
The art of noise in Seattle: Seahawks' 12th man helps create NFL's biggest home-field advantage
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/10395235/super-bowl-xlviii-seattle-seahawks-win-heavily-features-no-12
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- The Seattle Seahawks always talk about the power of 12 -- their fabled "12th man."
They adhere to WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:NPOV while directly supporting the associated statement. UW Dawgs (talk) 16:47, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Who is the bearded guy in this photo?[edit]

I know that Luke Willson is wearing the sweater with his jersey number 82, Russell Okung is in the brown sweater and using the earphones, but who's the bearded man waving in this photo? Can't be Max Unger since he was on the offensive line float of the Super Bowl parade. Arbor to SJ (talk) 07:49, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Photo now on Commons, at file:Seattle Seahawks tight ends at the 2014 Super Bowl parade.jpg. Arbor to SJ (talk) 21:43, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

The bearded man in the photo is Caylin Hauptmann. He is from Florida International University. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.149.74.114 (talk) 15:37, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

"12s" label for fans[edit]

An editor continues to remove any reference to the use of "12s" to label Seahawks fans. I believe that this is inappropriate to do without first discussing on this Talk page. Furthermore, his attempt at justifying this removal is a claim that original research is required in order to suggest that such a label is used for the fans. I believe this to absolutely not be the case. Not only does this Seahawks.com refer to the fans in the title as "12s", but within the article, it makes it clear that the label is being applied to the fans in the stands. Stating that the fans are being referred to as "12s" requires no original research. In the interest of consensus, I will be happy to provide, if needed, multiple additional citations that also refer to the fans as "12s" without requiring any original research. Macae (talk) 16:13, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

I suggest you read WP:V before replying. Your edit, created the following:

Seahawks fans are known collectively as the "12th Man"[4][5][6], "12th Fan"[7][disputed – discuss], or "12s".[8][9][10]

Per WP:BURDEN, please directly quote the precise material FOR EACH of your three citations, which you feel satisfies WP:NOR, noting "The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist.[1] This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources. To demonstrate that you are not adding OR, you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented." (emphasis is mine)
Your three citations:

UW Dawgs (talk) 22:22, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Sure.
  • [8] "Seahawks Rookies React To Roar of 12s at CenturyLink Field" & "That's how many 12s turned out to greet the Seahawks for their preseason home opener against the San Diego Chargers on Friday night at CenturyLink Field." & "(On how impressed he was with the support of the 12s...)" & "(On what he had heard about the 12s prior to being drafted to the Seahawks...) - I had heard that Seattle fans were pretty crazy." & "I had always heard about the 12s - they're the best fan base around." & "(On how impressed he was with the support of the 12s...) - They're a loyal fanbase."
Read WP:BURDEN. None of these directly state anything approaching "Seahawks fans are known collectively as ... '12s'." You've refenced a combination of questions and answers/quotations reflecting the personal view of the responder. As none directly support the blanket statement in your edit, you are engaged in prohibited WP:OR ("you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented."). UW Dawgs (talk) 04:08, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
  • [9] "Seahawks 12s rally for fellow fan in his final days" ... "Several hundred Seahawks fans turned out to honor fellow fan Frank Henderson"
"12s" appears twice in your citation, once in the headline and again in the body ("In just three days, Smith and his big-hearted family of 12s organized the rally for Frank fueled by an outpouring of affection for Frank and his indomitable spirit."). Neither directly supports the blanket statement, used in your edit. As your citation doesn't directly support your edit, you are engaged in prohibited WP:OR. UW Dawgs (talk) 04:08, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
  • [10] “We’ve had a good team come together over the years,” said Seahawks coach Pete Carroll, who simply calls the fans “the 12s.”
Pete Carroll's opinion is his own. Just as if he proclaimed the Earth to be flat, we could NOT update Earth with an unqualified blanket statement. This citation in your edit also engages in prohibited WP:OR, as it does not directly support your edit. UW Dawgs (talk) 04:08, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
Since the statement involves names that the fans are being referred to, the very evidence of these citations and the above statements is evidence that they are indeed being identified with this label. No original research is required in order to make that statement. Unless you are questioning the reliability of these published sources, which I don't think you are doing... Macae (talk) 20:30, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
As none of your citations adhere to our WP:NOR policy, they have been removed. UW Dawgs (talk) 04:08, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
The citations that I mentioned are not in violation of the WP:NOR policy and you have now removed my statement and citations four successive times without any support or even comment from other editors. Macae (talk) 16:47, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
I kind of see what UW Dawgs is getting at. However, it is obvious that the term "12's" has gained significant traction (I actually think it is a little weird). I reworded the line so that it is more accurate while keeping in the info. "Seahawks fans have been referred to collectively as the..." They have been referred to collectively as 12's by national media and the coach. Cptnono (talk) 01:08, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Cptnono for the revision. I have no problem with your change and think that it is a reasonable compromise to the debate. Thanks for playing referee! Macae (talk) 16:48, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Page move[edit]

A recent page move, which invokes WP:COMMONNAME and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC concerns, may be of possible interest to readers of this article. Please discuss at Talk:Peter R. Gross#Page move. Thank you. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 18:11, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Help identifying a player?[edit]

I'm trying to identify the player in this photo walking to the left of Alvin Bailey. It is possibly Anthony McCoy, since the player is dressed as an inactive (no pads/helmet, just warmups). Arbor to SJ (talk) 08:58, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Dainomite, thank you for helping with the photo I mis-labeled as Darrell Bevell. Could you please help here? Arbor to SJ (talk) 07:25, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
PS: The photo is from the Dec. 29, 2013 Rams/Seahawks game. List of starting players and inactives is here. Arbor to SJ (talk) 07:25, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Actually, since McCoy is a tight end, he's probably in this photo walking to Luke Willson's right and wearing the stocking hat and jacket. Arbor to SJ (talk) 07:30, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I honestly have no idea who that is Face-sad.svg  dainomite   23:46, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Based on this photo, I'm inclined to say the man in the stocking hat next to Luke Willson is Anthony McCoy. Arbor to SJ (talk) 00:10, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Post-merger expansion team Super Bowl appearances[edit]

The header indicates that the Seahawks are the only modern era expansion team to reach multiple Super Bowls, but this is incorrect. The Baltimore Ravens are considered an expansion team, as the Expansion Team article that is linked confirms, and they have won two Super Bowls. This needs to be corrected.174.73.5.74 (talk) 00:52, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I just noticed this also and I think the confusion might have been due to the fact that the Ravens were originally the Cleveland Browns, but are now considered an expansion team after the Cleveland Browns were remade. I'll remove the part about reaching multiple Super Bowls. Shiggity (talk) 14:09, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Augur hawk mascot?[edit]

Why is this bird the mascot? it's from Africa (and its article is entitled buzzard, not hawk). Seahawk is an alternate name for an Osprey, which is local to the Seattle area. The mascot should be the osprey. HalfGig talk 02:25, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

The talk page really isn't intended to be a Q&A for the Seahawks franchise, but "buzzard" is a traditional name for certain birds of prey, including the augur hawk, and as to why they picked the augur hawk is probably because it is more conducive to falconry training than an osprey would be. Shiggity (talk) 14:06, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Please add section about 2014 season[edit]

Please add a section that says, "In the 2014 season, the Seahawks went 12-4 during the regular season, winning the NFC West division and the #1 seed in the NFC playoffs. After a first-round bye, they beat the Carolina Panthers 31-17 to advance to the NFC Championship Game, where they beat the Green Bay Packers 28-22 in overtime after being down 16-0 at halftime. This earned them a trip to the Super Bowl for the second consecutive year, giving them the chance to become the first team to win back-to-back league championships since their opponent, the New England Patriots, did it during the 2003 and 2004 seasons. However, they came up short when, trailing 28-24 with 20 seconds remaining, quarterback Russell Wilson threw an interception from the one-yard line. Seattle's final play has already been regarded as one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Super Bowl." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.28.129.216 (talk) 01:02, 8 February 2015 (UTC)