Talk:Semiramis

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Untitled[edit]

Added the Armenian legend accompanied with a picture. It's a very short summary, somebody more qualified could expand later.--Eupator 01:06, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Does Josephus mention Ninus? I would like to see the source. Summer Song 13:50, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

google search Agathoclea 14:23, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Forcing suicide?[edit]

"Ninus was so struck by her bravery at the capture of Bactra that he married her, forcing Onnes to commit suicide." -- Something is wrong with this sentence. Did the marriage so upset Onnes that he committed suicide? I suspect that's what is trying to be said here, but it needs to be worded differently to be clear. Aleta 03:39, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

An Alternative Account from Diodorus Siculus[edit]

The account of the marriage of Semiramis to her first husband, Onnes, from Diodorus:

"5 1 Such, then, is in substance the story that is told about the birth of Semiramis. And when she had already come to the age of marriage and far surpassed all the other maidens in beauty, an officer was sent from the king's court to inspect the royal herds; his name was Onnes, and he stood first among the members of the king's council and had been appointed governor over all Syria. He stopped with Simmas, and on seeing Semiramis was captivated by her beauty; consequently he earnestly entreated Simmas to give him the maiden in lawful marriage and took her off to Ninus, where he married her and begat two sons, Hyapates and Hydaspes. 2 And since the other qualities of Semiramis were in keeping with the beauty of her countenance, it turned out that her husband became completely enslaved by her, and since he would do nothing without her advice he prospered in everything." (p. 363)

[ ... ]

"9 When the city had been taken in this way, the king, marvelling at the ability of the woman, at first honoured her with great gifts, and later, becoming infatuated with her because of her beauty, tried to persuade her husband to yield her to him of his own accord, offering in return for this favour to give him his own daughter Sosanê to wife.

10 But when the man took his offer with ill grace, Ninus threatened to put out his eyes unless he at once accede to his commands. And Onnes, partly out of fear of the king's threats and partly out of his passion for his wife, fell into a kind of frenzy and madness, put a rope about his neck, and hanged himself. Such, then, were the circumstances whereby Semiramis attained the position of queen." (p. 371)

Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History, Vol. 1, Loeb Classical Library, 1933,

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/2A*.html

(Edited to add: I revised the text on the main page to include this account of Diodorus).

Estéban (talk) 01:33, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

==[edit]

Melchizedekjesus[edit]

Asarelah, feel free to re-insert Melchizedekjesus's "controversial theory," but not in its current form please. Proper references need to be provided. For example: WHEN and WHERE did St. Augustine say that the cult of Venus and Cupid morphed into the cult of the Virgin Mary? And many others. Clean it up to meet accepted Wikipedia standards, then feel free to re-insert. -- 70.171.49.117 04:39, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Wait a minute... aren't you the person who already cleaned it up, about a month ago? I thought you did a good job. Unfortunately Melchizedekjesus keeps deleting your cleaned-up version, and re-inserting his original version, without ever making any effort to cite sources properly. People who re-insert the same material dozens of times, without addressing legitimate concerns, get reverted and blocked. -- 70.171.49.117 04:51, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I did clean it up and he did keep changing back. I suppose I'd better contact him and explain what I'm trying to do here. Hopefully we can get this straightened out. Asarelah 06:09, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I do not understand any part that needs "cleaning", I'm very sorry that I look so abrupt, but if you go back and look at the history no one started by asking me to improve it, or suggestions, each person would just revert my contribution, and say I was a chick follower, and that my info was bogus. I know that these sources are legit. I spent over 32 hours compiling data for a report on Semiramis for a presentation of a Genesis class at Bible College, my dad was surprised, and checked it out too. I used very expensive archive software at the college (Libronix). I have noticed that the people that point blank delete your work without a word, usually ask questions later, and not for correction, but to further challenge and contest the facts for sake of justifing their own biased opinion. As for St. Augustine someone else called him a "Catholic" Patriarch re-editing my work, I don’t have a problem with Catholics, or Christians, I just know the facts should be accessible to everyone. St. Augustine did not say the cult of Venus/Cupid morphed into the cult of Mary, he retells how the temple of Venus was changed slightly to accommodate Mary as a result many pervesions corrupted her identity, and you can read the rest. I don’t want to hear about how Augustine never existed, or his work was changed, or any other bogus tactics to suppress this very real controversy. sincerly, MelchizedekJesus

Let me first assure you that I have no agenda other than improving the article. The main problem here is that when people made edits attempting to improve upon the section you added, you continued to change it back again and again to your version, which I tried to improve upon not only because I thought that it was biased, but because, in my opinion, it was rather unclear and poorly written. When you add information to wikipedia, you agree to allow other editors to edit it. So let them. Furthermore, although Hislop's theory certainly should be mentioned in the article, you kept presenting it as the only "true" origin of Semiramis. There is no consensous among historians as to the origins of Semiramis, and to present this theory as being the only "true" one is heavily biased. Furthermore, at least one did try to get you to address your concerns on the talk page through mentioning it in the edit summaries. (such as the 23 December 2006 version by Codex Sinaiticus). I would be more than happy to include information on Hislop's theory, I simply want to make sure that it is unbiased, and I can't do that if you continue to reinsert the same flawed version of the section over and over again. Also, please sign your posts on talk pages using four tildes. Instructions on how to do so are found at the top of the talk page when you edit it. Thank you. Asarelah 20:46, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

You put on a pretty face and reasonable attitude here in the discussion like you are putting on a show for sombody. All you have done, and anyone can look at the history, you would dump what I wrote, I would rewrite, and reinsert, then without a word you would revert it completely off, then someone else asked my for more neutrality, I complied as best as possible remaining true to the consensous of the historians I researched. You are out of order by dumping my work, you have several other sections on this page to lord over. So quit your act, your history speaks loud and clear.

What do you mean? If you examine the history (for example, the version I created on December 27, 2006 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Semiramis&oldid=96665978), I made repeated attempts to rewrite it, you kept reinserting previous versions. If you will not be reasonable, I will be forced to ask the administrators to intervene in this matter. Asarelah 01:11, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I thought she was queen of Babylon, not Assyria as stated in the first few lines. I am not a historian; I thought these two empires were mortal enemies. Was there ever a time when they were one? 75.9.35.38 (talk) 03:03, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Not that I'm aware of. Does it say both Babylon and Assyria in the article? Asarelah (talk) 05:54, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
It clearly says she was a 'legendary Assyrian queen' in the first few lines. But later it is clear she is associated with Babylon. I'm just wondering if this is a mistake or if there is some historical basis for her association with both empires or for some precursor to them (of which I know nothing). 75.9.35.38 (talk) 00:02, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

External link[edit]

I removed the link to Semiramis, Queen of Babylon. Writer Bryce Self takes the Bible very seriously indeed, accepting the Flood, Noah's Ark, Satan etc. as literal truths. The page could of course still contain valuable information about Semiramis, but I think such information should be taken from more reliable sources than that. Hexmaster (talk) 16:02, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

No doubt this was the right thing to do, but it would seem strange to remove references because a writer holds to the traditional Christian position on a number of issues.Martin Turner (talk) 15:45, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

So, in a biology article, would you leave in references, as authoritative, that treated evolution as a hoax? Thnidu (talk) 20:00, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

WHY ARE HEROINES ALWAYS VILIFIED?[edit]

It is SO fascinating to see that EVERY single heroine in history and myth has been turned into something cheap/harlot-like (and forgotten!). It is clear that Semiramis is a female heroine, and to these characteristics belong enjoyment of the senses, accepting seed to be fruitful etc.

Why do we never hear of these heroines, except for negative reasons ("she behaves like she was the queen of sheeba etc)

Cassiopeia, The Queen of Sheba, Salome, Semiramis... are all FEMINIBE HEROINES, who have been cast aside and fogotten!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.230.144.155 (talk) 11:26, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Your point being? Hexmaster (talk) 15:23, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

www.semiramisgarden.ro —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doktorur (talkcontribs) 15:44, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

My personal study of Astral Origins[edit]

TAMUZ is the date the sun crosses over Mars in 1770bc July 10. It is the Tau that produces the Thoth Marduk date Nov 9. Because this July 10 is also The Phoenix of Venus rising, the Nov 9 is also Thoth Phoenix. Biblical year Adam's 2256am called the Flood star because 600 years (599.5 Julian) is a half-cycle from 2369bc Jan 6. (150 leap days +30 drift days =180). This year is the death of 500-year old Narmer (Nimrod) in Abydos Egypt and its the birth of baby Judah in Syria. SEMIRAMIS would think means Shem The Ram or a reference to Venus in Aries as it is in 1869bc. However, online sources say Ramis means to honor, so Semiramis is to honor Shem (Shem-Ramis) who lived 600 years in a consistency with the 600 years of Venus (Phoenix). Ninus of Nineveh honored 600 years in 1268bc. It is very important that kings called Venus their wife or mother voice and so every Semiramis should not be regarded as human. The view that Nimrod observed (married) Semiramis is taken from the misnomer Eusebius and others gave claiming Nimrod was Ninus from 2059-2007bc(52 years of Nineveh = same first 52 years of Marduk Temple in Babel 2060-2009bc). There are two major Marduks, Jupiter which is 7 orbits every 83 years thus 249 years and 996 years; and Mars whose 780-day calendar is 52 years of 360 days because every 13 years is 6 orbits. A Marduk of Mars in the 360-day calendar (1656+366)for year 2022am counts to 6000; and a Marduk of Jupiter for 2016am (1656+360) counts to Julian 6000. Research finds these dates to be 2009bc Feb 26 before the Egyptian new year (Persian Pamenot 1 on July 11) and 2009bc July 8 as Noah's year 966. The Feb 26 is a result of Noah's new year 713 falling on Feb 26 in 2258bc 249 years earlier. And 480 Julian years returns that new year to Feb 26 on 1778bc as Noah's year 1200 (600 from 2370bc Oct 12). This is why Moslem 3600am is 8 years before Mayan 3600am for Babylon's Hamurabi. Semiramis is verified by Zecharia Sitchin as holding arrows (Eros) or he says missles because he says Shem means arrow or missle. But these arrows of war are contrasted with the dove-bird she holds. Thus this Venus of 1868bc is a dove-bird 98 years before Nimrod's death at 500 is a fire-bird. The interesting factor is that Shem is debated as 500 or 502 years after the Flood disputing his birth 100 0r 98 years before the Flood. Venus has a 502-year cycle of Gregorian dates (azimuth). The 243-year Julian cycle plus 8 years because of 2 leap days. Thus the 2369bc Jan 6 Venus is Gregorian 2370bc Dec 17 and in 1883bc is again Julian Jan 6 (1884bc G.Dec 19) but 8 years later is 1867bc Jan 4 (1868bc G.Dec 17) confirming the 502 years (twice 251). This 502 years applied to the Phoenix cannot mark Nimrod's birth but it can screw up concept of his last 250 years from year 350 to year 600 after the Flood. Venus as 251 (2021-1770bc) versus Marduk-Jupiter as 249 (2019-1770bc) because it must agree with a 2020bc Ptah and a 1770bc Tamuz Marduk. Semiramis therefore becomes the cause of reducing preFlood 1656 years to 1556 years by confusing Noah and Shem and Nimrod. All three who held titles as king of kings, king of righteousness due to longevity. 98.144.71.174 (talk)

A fascinating but unsourced section on Easter's origins...[edit]

Just rmoved this from the page:

==Origin of Easter== The origin of Easter dates back to ancient times, not long after the global Flood recorded in Genesis 6-9 of the Bible. Nimrod, a grandson of Noah, had turned from following his grandfather's God and had become a tyrannical ruler. According to the biblical record, as king, Nimrod created Babel, Ninevah, Asshur, Calla and other cities, all known for lifestyles that promoted unspeakable evil and perversion. When Nimrod died, his wife, Queen Semiramis, deified him as the Sun-god, or Life Giver. Later he would become known as Baal, and those who followed the religion Semiramis created in his name would be called Baal worshippers. They became associated with idolatry, demon worship, human sacrifice and other practices regarded as evil.

The origin of Easter involves the birth of Semiramis' illegitimate son, Tammuz. Somehow, Semiramis convinced the people that Tammuz was actually Nimrod reborn. Since people had been looking for the promised savior since the beginning of mankind (see Genesis 3:15), they were persuaded by Semiramis to believe that Tammuz was that savior, even that he had been supernaturally conceived. Before long, in addition to worshipping Tammuz (or Nimrod reborn), the people also worshipped Semiramis herself as the goddess of fertility. In other cultures, she has been called Ishtar, Ashtur and yes, Easter.

The origin of Easter goes back to the springtime ritual instituted by Semiramis following the death of Tammuz, who, according to tradition, was killed by a wild boar. Legend has it that through the power of his mother's tears, Tammuz was "resurrected" in the form of the new vegetation that appeared on the earth.

According to the Bible, it was in the city of Babel that the people created a tower in order to defy God. Up until that time, all the people on the earth spoke one language. The building of the tower led God, as recorded in Genesis 11:7, to confuse their tongues to keep them from being further unified in their false beliefs. As the people moved into other lands, many of them took their pagan practices with them.

Contemporary traditions such as the Easter Bunny and the Easter egg can also be traced back to the practices established by Semiramis. Because of their prolific nature, rabbits have long been associated with fertility and its goddess, Ishtar. Ancient Babylonians believed in a fable about an egg that fell into the Euphrates River from heaven and from which Queen Astarte (another name for Ishtar or Semiramis) was "hatched."

Legend, facts, et al.[edit]

Often difficult to disprove, approve or even discuss some issues pertaining to Queen Semiramis for obvious source scarcity and/or verifiability. However the following ref on page 4 is interesting:

Hydraulics of Sediment Transport By Walter Hans Graf Edition: 3 Published by Water Resources Publication, 1998 ISBN 091833456X, 9780918334565

She was directly responsible for 'okaying' the project (expensive) and it might help to draw the article into clearer waters regarding the nebulous cloud over her real life id, etc. Yes, its relevance is debateable within the article's context but all info helps to rebuild the past from spurious sources and the capacities of those invested with their interpretation.

Marc Block's analytical techniques always seem to guide and facilitate historical perspectives...but I am sure most editors here are more than familiar with said approaches! Cheers. Ernstblumberg (talk) 18:24, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

And no offence to Encycl Brit - but the article on Queen Semiramis...what were they thinking? Ernstblumberg (talk) 18:29, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Suri[edit]

Is that supposed to redirect to Surma people? I don't see Indian (or Afghan for that matter) references, but I do see Ethiopia. So..just asking, since it's considered a legend. 81.68.255.36 (talk) 14:59, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Semiramis was married to the great king Nimrod who was a grandchild of the Biblical Noah. See: Genses 10.8, Jashers book, Josefus, 'Little Genesis', third apoclyps of Barduk, records of Ebla, the history of Armenia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.90.50.229 (talk) 14:37, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Hislop / Jack Chick[edit]

Removed the 'some historians regard' -- this is weasel words. Which historians regard Hislop in this light, where is the citation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MartinTurner (talkcontribs) 15:47, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Is the Armenian section really significant enough to merit inclusion?[edit]

I don't know why this section is included and at such great length. I don't see the significance of the Armenian perspective on the legend of Semiramis, especially given it appears to ascribe a certain Armenian character to the legend which is of no factual validity or cultural significance outside of Armenia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.82.198 (talk) 18:03, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

1 Queen, 2 pages[edit]

Can these two pages be combined? Shammuramat — Preceding unsigned comment added by Originalturbo (talkcontribs) 19:04, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Hislop - notability[edit]

Is Hislop's an expert opinion on the subject of Semiramis? From were I sit it appears he's a tract writer, not an expert on ancient Asian culture and religion. Are there any secondary sources that mention him as an expert at all, or is this a fringe opinion? If the latter, I don't see why a third of the content of what should be a scholarly article is taken up by these suppositions which originate from an anti-Catholic tract. Ultra Venia (talk) 00:29, 12 December 2013 (UTC)