|WikiProject Clans of Scotland||(Rated C-class, Top-importance)|
The word "sept" is terribly similar in meaning to the word "Sippe", used to describe German familiar relations. I suspect a link, though I have no reference for this. The Jade Knight (talk) 10:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
The references I am coming across state that Sept is a Victorian invention, namely The Romantic Myth of Scottish Clan Septs and List of Clan Septs and Dependents. The Sept article spends 3 paragraphs seaming to promote the myth of Septs and only goes into their mythical nature in the 4th para. This article also goes into detailed "clan" history, which may be a bit off base if septs actually have nothing to do with clans. Both refs above also state that idea of Scottish septs was borrowed from the Irish, not stated in this article. SomeRandomFilmArticleEditor (talk) 01:21, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
- Those are good points. Now the use of Sliocht by the Irish is old. For example if you see O'Donovan we have a few there at the bottom of the box, and several more in my sources. Our sliocht were traditionally either smaller branches of the two large clans, or small clans proper. For example the Clan Aneslis are of the same age as the Clancahill and Clan Loughlin, but are smaller and considerably less landed, and are thus commonly referred to as the Sliocht Aneslis. The Sliocht Íomhair were a small but distinguished "sept" of 13th century origin, theoretically part of Clancahill but actually more of their own small clan. But Clancahill and Clan Loughlin themselves are not sliochts, and neither are the O'Donovans altogether a sliocht.
- But it has become more and more common to refer to any type of Irish family or dynasty as a sept, in part because the Irish are a little more aristocratic about it and many find the Scottish clans distasteful and commercialized... and for the most part of very dubious pedigree. So there is some distancing in progress. But then the Scots have now become obsessessed with their own "septs" so who knows what will happen.
- It also depends on the context. If you look at Irish nobility you will find sept has been made to refer to the major surviving dynasties of each great kindred or "race". And then if you look at the O'Neill dynasty, the leading Gaelic family among all the Irish, you will find even the great and royal Tyrone dynasty referred to as a "sept". So they would appear to do it differently from us at the moment, although I do not know how old that usage is among them. Finally, thank you for posting because you have prompted me to fix a few related errors in the O'Donovan article. DinDraithou (talk) 00:53, 2 August 2010 (UTC)