Talk:Shadow of the Colossus

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Heroe's name, Wander?[edit]

I was wondering about the heroe's name. I KNOW it's not Wanda (Heaven forbid), but is it really Wander? I always thought he didn't actually have a name, and was only defined as "the wanderer" (or "Wander", because the japanese kind of suck in English). Anyways, I don't have the booklet or anything. Here is a quote from a Gamefaqs FAQ:
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/shadow_of_the_colossus_plot.txt
"Q: So the main character's name is "Wander" then? A: Er, not exactly. You see, he doesn't have a name that we're aware of. The official UK website for Shadow of the Colossus says "It matters not. His efforts were not for the cause of creating a legend for himself" under "What is the wanderer's name?"
I'm on a school computer wich won't let me browse the flash website, so I can't check it out. So what do you think? Can we REALLY say his name is actually Wander, or are we just calling him that by general concenssus? (Not that there's anything wrong with that, as long as it's mentioned)
Same thing goes for Mono.
Happypal 04:31, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I forget exactly, but I think it's mentioned in the credits. -- Steel 12:21, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I read up, Mono is mentioned in the credits. I'm not sure about Wander though, and even if it is, if the voice credit if it is for Wander, the name, or Wander, "The wanderer"Happypal 13:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Kind of aside from the discussion, but it bears mentioning on the topic. It isn't that the Japanese "suck" at english; rather they have an entire scheme devouted to transcription- katakana. It is largely a phonetic transcription, but it does have its own rules, both official & unofficial, for encoding pronounciation & translation. Wanda is ワンダ-- first character "wa", second "n", third "da" (well, ta modified to da). --mordicai. 13:55, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
That is true. but what I meant by suck is not "wanda" instead of "Wander", but "Wander" instead of "Wanderer".
And on a side note, so let's not build on it, regardless of their writing system, the japanese kind of do suck in general in English.
I think it's more along the lines that they're far more liberal with English than we are, because for them it's more "something cool" or such. Thus, "Wander" instead of "Wanderer" is fine, since it sounds a bit better and doesn't make a lick of difference to the Japanese. He's listed in the US release's credits as "Wander" so it should be used as a name - even if it isn't truly his name, it's all we have to go by. -JC 05:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I thought it was Wanda and the Colossus because thats what all the early press said, but I just read something on GameFaqs from a trustworthy source that that was indeed an incorrect translation and that its either Wander or Wonder. I was totally going to go on a rant against this until I looked it up. Well so much for that! And BTW the genders of names change all the time. I know a girl named Clovis, and many masculine names in England are feminine in America like Leslie. Novaterata 05:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

If "Wander" is in the English game, then it is "Wander" in the English Wikipedia. Same deal with Aeris in the Final Fantasy VII article. --Teggles 05:04, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

The Japanese suck at English? Somebody set up them the grammar? 164.58.80.30 21:47, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

The main character is indeed named "Wander" (written ワンダ (wanda) in kana) in the Japanese version. Hence the English translation of the Japanese title "Wander and the Colossus" (as seen on the booklet of the game, for example). And I'm not sure why you're talking about their English skills, here, really... 88.161.129.43 (talk) 18:08, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I just beat the game two days ago, and the credits (for the voice actor) say Wander. Same goes for Mono. it's in the credits. Vicco Lizcano (talk) 16:40, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Just because the Japanese cannot end a word in "erer" does not mean we should not. If they insist on transliterating an english word into their language it does not suddenly make their incorrect spelling of the word correct in english. We spell and pronounce the Chinese word Beijing incorrectly, it does not mean the Chinese should do the same. (Hey! Listen!)

You're missing the point... The Japanese can end a word in "erer". "Wanderer" would be "wandarā". But here, it's "wanda", and it stands for the name "Wander", not the English word "wanderer". 88.161.129.43 (talk) 00:58, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
So the translators could have spelled it correctly, but because they are apparently more clueless than the arguer originally supposed the translation is correct? Your logic needs work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.1.44.180 (talk) 23:40, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Dormin and the Royal 'We'[edit]

In the article, Dormin is referred to using the third person plural, i.e., they. Is this because when Dormin speaks it refers to itself using 'we'? I was under the impression that Dormin was a single entity that used the Royal 'We'(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_we) when referring to itself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 41.204.46.191 (talk) 13:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC).

And your point is, God in the Quran refers to himself as "We" plenty of times. The objective meaning is -dido- there is no objective meaning its just takin into context.
What?
I'm confused also... however, to respond to the original question: Dormin is plural, as shown on one of the official web pages (I think the EU one?), especially considering the fact that Dormin has a duo-voice. -JC 10:46, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
No, in the Japanese version, Dormin refers to himself/herself/itself as "washi", and Wander calls him/her/it "anata". Both are singular. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 18:41, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I was under the impression that Dormin was a spiritual being composed of many entities, similar to Legion (demon). On the official web page it says that Dormin is a being composed of many that speak as one. The two voices heard when Dormin speaks is partial evidence to this. Unknown Dragon 07:40, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

This article from gamefaqs.com has an extensive discussion of the Dormin and how it calls itself 'we' (like the user before me just mentioned, one of the pieces of evidence it cites is that early in the game Dormin has both a male and female voice, and as the game progresses the female voice disappears). It's probably considered original resource, so we can't post it on the article, but if you are still interested in this question you can at least check it out here. --Politizer (talk) 01:51, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Another way of looking at the use of "We" could be taken in the idea that Dormin itself is made up of multiple entities, and one is each embodied in a colossus when he (or they) was (or were) sealed, and then as a whole, they refer to themselves as Dormin. To also support this, the voice(s) that he (they) use(s) to speak are layered, and given the effect that many are speaking (both male and female) when it is only suppose to be one. Miguzigirl29 (talk) 05:51, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

But as said above, the Japanese version uses the singular, so it really looks like it's meant to be the royal "we". Erigu (talk) 19:10, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Dormin's first appearance in the game was a small army of shadow so it's safe to say that he's not one entity. It seems more likely that it's a single conciousness that is split amongst several different entities (notice how when he's rejuvenated at the end of the game he says "I, Dormin"). So he refers to himself as we just because he's multiple creatures who share the same conciousness. --24.46.117.40 (talk) 03:06, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Again, like I just said above, the Japanese version uses the singular... Erigu (talk) 21:18, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Define: Giants[edit]

Within the introduction, the text blandly states that you fight 16 'giants'. Actually, you fight 15, as one is the simple size of a normal bull (I forget what number it is, but it involves running into pillars a lot). The term 'Colossus' is a translation and is defined differently under the game's lore, so that terminology cannot be disputed, but the use of the word 'giant' can. It may seem a little pedantic, but everyone else here appears to contesting various other parts of the article, so I thought it best to point out that even the introduction is not entirely accurate. Peace! Melaisis (talk) 22:09, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what bulls you've been around but the one in SoC is larger than most SUV so it pretty clearly falls into the giant category. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.212.172.93 (talk) 04:47, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Melaisis is referring to Colossus 11 or 14. they are both rather small quadrupeds. I recently read that 11 is supposed to be a tiger and 14 is supposed to be a lion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.169.147 (talk) 23:50, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes i remember few of them being small. but if we say that there are less than 16 colossus it will create confusing. and they're still pretty big.--Megaman en m (talk) 10:11, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
You have to take into account that this is a fictional land, and as such Dormin calls the creatures inhabiting the 'Sacred(Cursed) Land' the Colossi, therefore it could be said that these, mostly gigantic, creatures are always colossi.
Think of it this way;
Colossus(A) = The dictionary definition of a colossus
Colossus(B) = The name given to the creatures that inhabit the 'Sacred Land'
Just because a specific Colossus is not a colossus(A) does not mean it's not a colossus(B)
Hopefully that made sence... this was the only way I could think to word it.
--(Arkensark (talk) 20:09, 28 July 2008 (UTC))
Melaisis was disputing the use of the word “giants” to describe the colossi, in the second paragraph of the article. I agree, so I’m changing it. —Frungi (talk) 16:48, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
um, i don't know who breeds the bulls around you, but Celosia and Cenobia (they're names) are more like the the size of a bull ELEPHANT. anyway, it looks small because of the zoomed out camera, but you could definately see the difference if it was a fps.

Two. There are two "normal bulls." Also, "giant" is a reference to greek mythology, refuring to any of Gaia's children. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.34.73.49 (talk) 20:36, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Other Media?[edit]

Is there any way of mentioning the fact that it was in that film but without such a quick referrence as a full section it currently has? I mean it doesn't really suit the FA standard as it currently is. I mean if we could expand on that in a non trivial way and mentioning other media it has been referrenced in if possible (the only other I know would be The Simpsons Game). Stabby Joe (talk) 19:53, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

The significance of SotC being featured in that film remains unclear to me ("Oh, it was in a film. That's nice. So what?"), but we have IP after IP wishing to include it and this add-remove-add-remove cycle can't carry on forever. I suppose we ould shoehorn it into the reception section somehow - it wouldn't fit well there but it might be the best compromise. What's definitely not going to stay is an entire section devoted to just one line of worthless trivia. – Steel 01:22, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
Good because before I was removing it with the reason "see dicussion" but then I remembered that last time it was settled through messages so now we actually have a "see discussion" Stabby Joe (talk) 15:49, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

WP:VG External Links check[edit]

This Featured Article has a total of three dead external links, which can be found here. Please fix them as soon as possible. Thanks! --haha169 (talk) 00:45, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Atleast 4 dead links, please fix. — Dispenser 00:40, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Dormin--major character, not supporting cast[edit]

The Characters section previously claimed that the story "revolves around three characters" (Wander, Agro, and Mono) and "includes a small supporting cast including Dormin and Lord Emon." I have modified that to include Dormin as one of the central characters, rather than part of a supporting cast. Since Dormin is one of the main driving forces of the plot, and appears after each colossus is defeated, and speaks to Wander during the battles, it seems ridiculous to say he's only part of the 'supporting cast'--after all, he has more speaking lines during the game than any other character, and the much of the ending sequence is pretty much all about him. --Politizer (talk) 02:04, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Nico[edit]

Two editors, 88.161.129.43 and 87.231.15.102, have been editing the section regarding the etymology of Nico, the original working title for the game (see the Development section). The issue is whether the name is a portmanteau of "Next" and "Ico," or of "ni" (Japanese for "two") and "Ico." I personally don't lean more or less towards either of these explanations. Currently the only source to support the "Next Ico" explanation is an all-Japanese source.

I acknowledge that "Next Ico" may be a better explanation than "ni Ico," but this cannot be verified by the vast majority of readers...keep in mind that, regardless of the language abilities of any particular editor, this is English Wikipedia and there are guidelines for using non-English sources. With that in mind, the best solution is for a Japanese-speaking editor to look at the Japanese source (currently footnote 34 in the Development section) and provide an English translation, inside the footnote, of the relevant section of that article. Until that is done, I am reverting the article back to the version with both "Next Ico" and "ni Ico," since as things stand neither one can be verified (by most readers) better than the other. --Politizer (talk) 17:57, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Two editors, 88.161.129.43 and 87.231.15.102
That would be me in both cases, actually.
I acknowledge that "Next Ico" may be a better explanation than "ni Ico,"
Well, it's better in the sense that it comes directly from Ueda. I'd think the guy knows what he's talking about... ^^;
The sources claiming that "Nico" is a pun on "ni" (two) and "Ico," on the other hand...
the best solution is for a Japanese-speaking editor to look at the Japanese source (currently footnote 34 in the Development section) and provide an English translation
I'm not fluent in English, so feel free to correct me:
Ueda Fumihito: In the first stages of development, "Wander to Kyozō" was called "Nico," short for "Next Ico." The idea for our new game was to use what we had learned on "Ico" and come up with something new. However, "Nico" was nothing more than a temporary project name and it was clear from the beginning that the title would change. 87.231.15.102 (talk) 19:42, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
That translation looks fine to me; would you be able to specify the paragraph or line number, or something? And (this is not totally necessary, but I'm just wondering) give a romaji transliteration of whatever is being translated to "next ico"? That might help clear things up.
Once that info is ready, I can put this translation into the footnote and then either remove the "ni + Ico" stuff, or move it into a footnote or something so it's not so prominent. --Politizer (talk) 19:46, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
That excerpt would be Ueda's first answer, at the very beginning of the interview. And I didn't translate "Nico" and "Next Ico," actually: these were in our alphabet to begin with (so I believe you should be able to spot them in the article even if you don't have Japanese fonts on your computer).
As for the "ni + ico" explanation, I'd remove it, really... I've never seen a member of the staff come up with that explanation (on the contrary, as we've just discussed), only video game journalists... So it really looks like a (wrong) theory. 87.231.15.102 (talk) 19:53, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Done! Thanks for your help. --Politizer (talk) 00:55, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Which genres to include in infobox?[edit]

24.13.60.69 has removed Puzzle from the genres section of the infobox; I added Platform since the game is also called a platformer in the lead-in (albeit as of a recent edit by a new user), but 24.13.60.69 has removed that and repeatedly reverted my edits. Can we come to a consensus here about what genres should be listed. IGN currently lists it as "3rd-person adventure" in their profile of it and as "adventure" here, but I also have seen it frequently labelled a platformer (the only example I have on hand is this). —Politizertalk • contribs ) 03:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I think something along the lines of "3rd person adventure" is probably best. Gamespot uses "fantasy action adventure" which I quite like since it seems the most accurate of the lot. I've not seen SotC called a platform game anywhere - allgame only states that it has "platform-game style" elements which is different to calling the game as a whole a platformer. – Steel 13:37, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Ok, that sounds good to me; if you want to remove Platform from the infobox that's fine. I was just getting tired of the multiple reverts without any consensus having been reached. But yeah, if you want to leave it at Adventure, Action Adventure, or something along those lines, I won't revert it. —Politizertalk • contribs ) 13:45, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Cool. I've done that. – Steel 13:49, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
For what it's worth, the official Japanese site calls it an "action-adventure" game. So I think we're good. Erigu (talk) 02:41, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Removal of Image:Mono and Wander.JPG[edit]

In this edit, Judgesurreal777 removed that image, saying we already have a character image. Do we? I skimmed through the article, and this was the only clear image I saw of the character's face. I didn't want to revert, though, because I figured maybe you think an image of the character's face is unnecessary when some of the other images show the character (although in less detail and clarity, I think) and I figured it would be better to discuss here first. Personally, my vote would be to keep the image in, but again, I don't want to just revert without hearing your thoughts.—Politizertalk • contribs ) 04:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Over at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_games/Wikipedia_0.7_workshop, someone had mentioned that this article had too many fair use images, so I cut the one that seemed to add the least to the article, since the others are gameplay, one shows the main character and one of the colossus, so I thought that would be the best to cut. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 04:22, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm gonna be reverting. The article has six non-free images, all of which illustrate relevant points in the text...except the album cover, which I'm going to cut now (the album has its own article). - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire - past ops) 04:32, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I do agree with Judgesurreal that an image of the character's face is less important than one showing him "in action" during gameplay. But if removing the unnecessary soundtrack album cover near the bottom allows us to keep that in, that seems like a pretty good tradeoff to me. —Politizertalk • contribs ) 14:01, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

List of colossi[edit]

I commented out the list of colossi with their latin and other names, because it's totally uninformative to a reader who hasn't played the game; with just the names given (names that are never used in the game) and no mention of what the colossi are like, w here they are found, etc., it's completely uninformative to any reader who hasn't played the game, and to many readers who played the game a while ago and don't remember the specific number that each colossus was. Even if someone wants to add that sort of description, I still don't see why this information is really necessary to the article, but I won't take it out if someone reinstates it with some useful description. As it is now, though, just copy-and-pasted from somewhere, it's useless.

Also, if someone does want to put the list back in, could you please organize it in some kind of table, instead of the bare list that it is now? Since this article is an FA, we shouldn't be introducing ugly things into the article, and the list format this is in is pretty ugly.

And finally, a minor quibble...the original editor who added this information did not source it properly. The source he gave was the game itself (Shadow of the Colossus/NICO/Wanda to Kyozu Edition; Special Collector's Edition; Dengeki (October 2005)). Maybe the collector's edition has special information about the colossi in its instruction book, I don't know, but in that case the instruction book should be cited. Otherwise, the website where the user found these should be cited (I know some of the IGN walkthroughs have these names on them, although I would hesitate to cite one of those when a more official source might be available somewhere). —Politizer talk/contribs 14:22, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Back when the article was first being taken to FA we decided to remove the colossi list because the English translations for the names were unsourced, and people were edit warring over how the Japanese names (which, if I recall correctly, are in the special edition you mentioned. Not sure about the Latin names.) should be translated. Since then the list has reappeared several times in various forms (plain text, wikitable, etc) though so too have the edit wars.
Personally I don't particularly mind anymore whether we have the list or not - it's kind of nice but also kind of useless. I've generally left it in the article when it's added in table format since it doesn't look too bad that way, though it's mainly due to laziness: if someone removes it there's an approximately 100% chance someone else will add it back in again at some point, and probably without any wikiformatting. *shrugs* – Steel 18:00, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
Maybe the collector's edition has special information about the colossi in its instruction book
That's how one of the rumors about that list goes. But that's simply not true. I have that version of the game, and there's no such thing (either that, or I would very much like to know where to look exactly!).
According to another version of the story, the list comes from FamiTsū. That's not true either.
As far as I can tell, that list is completely bogus. Fan creation or hoax.
The official Japanese artbook / guide (ISBN4-7577-2580-9) goes out of its way to state that the Colossi have no official names (page 9, and then again on page 140, where the guide specifically states that they don't have official names according to Ueda himself). Not one official name, not two official names, not three official names. None. Zero. They're just "1st Colossus", "2nd Colossus", etc. They were given nicknames by staff members during development, but nothing "canonical".
In case anyone is interested, here are the nicknames for the sixteen Colossi:
1: Minotauros (ミノタウロス Minotaurosu?, lit. "Minotaur")
2: Mammoth (マンモス Manmosu?)
3: Kishi (騎士 Kishi?, lit. "Knight")
4: Kirin (麒麟 Kirin?, or "Qilin")
5: Tori ( Tori?, lit. "Bird")
6: Minotauros B (ミノタウロスB Minotaurosu Bī?)
7: Unagi (ウナギ Unagi?, lit. "Eel")
8: Yamori (ヤモリ Yamori?, lit. "Gecko")
9: Kame (カメ Kame?, lit. "Turtle")
10: Nāga (ナーガ Nāga?)
11: Leo (レオ Reo?)
12: Poseidon (ポセイドン Poseidon?)
13: Hebi (ヘビ Hebi?, lit. "Snake")
14: Kerberos (ケルベロス Keruberosu?, or "Cerberus")
15: Minotauros C (ミノタウロスC Minotaurosu Shī?)
16: Eevis (イービス Ībisu?, Ueda explains that they were thinking the game was about going against huge forces, against the establishment... a bit like rock and roll... and who's the god of rock and roll? so they took his name, tweaked it a little bit, and gave it to the last colossus... the alphabet spelling "Eevis" is just a speculation of mine based on the kana spelling)
I really can't think of a reason to include any of that in the article, but hey. Here you go. ^^; Erigu (talk) 04:05, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
That's interesting. I think it decides this whole problem, too. Would you be able to add a sentence along the lines of "the colossi have no official names" to the colossi paragraph, with the citation? – Steel 14:18, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
I think so. Erigu (talk) 15:10, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
This might be what started the whole urban legend about those names.
Needless to say, there was no "select Collectors Edition issues (only at select retailers) of Dengeki PlayStation made just for the game"... Erigu (talk) 15:59, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Rhodesian war?[edit]

"He has a small group of soldiers at his command, and is pursuing Wander to prevent the use of "the forbidden spell", the ritual involving the destruction of the sixteen colossi.[26] Emon and his men were trained by the Rhodesian Army in 1977, and served in the Grey's Scouts horse cavalry unit in the Rhodesian Bush War."

what's that suppose to mean

Vandalism. Reverted. — Blue 11:55, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Because of its artistic merit, Shadow of the Colossus has garnered some attention from literary theorists. In "'Play, Memory': Shadow of the Colossus and Cognitive Workouts," literary theorist Dave Ciccoricco applies the distinction of episodic and procedural memory from cognitive science to the game toward a richer understanding of how the game mechanics work along with the mechanics of the game's narrative.[65]

what does that even mean? horrible context —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.89.20 (talk) 16:49, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Agro[edit]

Throughout the article Agro is referred to with male pronouns, but I don't recall the horse's gender being specifically identified. Just checked the manual and it doesn't say one way or the other either. The pronouns should probably be changed to be gender-neutral, unless someone knows of a source that clearly states that Agro is a male horse. 221.95.134.29 (talk) 12:35, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

According to Ueda, Agro is female.
'Not sure where you'd want to put that in the article, so here are the references:
Cite book | year=2006 | editor=Editors of Famitsū | title=Wander to Kyozō Kōshiki Kōryaku & Setteibon Inishie no Chi Kitan | page=202 | language=Japanese | publisher=Enterbrain
Good call, anyway. Erigu (talk) 04:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
I went ahead and edited the article. I think it should do. Erigu (talk) 05:06, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Hum, English's not my first tongue, but shouldn't animals be called "it"? --Anthony Lorrain (talk) 20:03, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Animals that are personified and have a close relationships with humans often get to use human pronouns. For example, people usually call their pets (particularly dogs and cats) "him" or "her", and rarely "it". rʨanaɢ (talk) 20:31, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Non-free image[edit]

What does File:Mono and Wander.JPG do for this article? Why do we need a non-free image to show what Wander and Mono look like—as far as I can tell, the article contains no critical commentary on their designs. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 13:20, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

This is an improvement, but I still am not convinced that a picture is necessary just to illustrate that the characters both have long hair (the prose explains that pretty well). rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 16:30, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Wander's Physical Degrade?[edit]

It says in the article that throughout the game Wander's physical appearance steadily gets worse in that "his skin gets paler, his hair gets darker, he gets stripes across his face and he begins sprouting little horns."

I just finished the game and I don't recall any of those occurring (I zoomed in on him while taking cover from the final Colossus). His hair really stayed the same shade of black and I did not see any horns (nor any horns on the baby). I thought the dark stripes across his face wasn't the result of some demonic possession by Dormin but really he was just getting scruffy. After all he's been through there's probably going to be some dirt smeared on his face. And his skin didn't get paler but I did notice it got slightly darker but that's, again, he just got more scruffy.

Can anyone fully verify that this actually happened in the game? Because I don't recall it until the game's ending when he was fully possessed by Dormin (and his skin was far paler than it was during the final battle). --24.46.117.40 (talk) 03:03, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

It's true: it does happen. Erigu (talk) 21:19, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
After playing the time trial mode I do admit that his hair got darker. But I don't think his skin got paler and I never noticed any horns. Also I sincerely doubt those dark stripes were a result of his posesssion by Dormin, it seems more likely that it's dirt smeared on his face than a spiritural possession. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.46.117.40 (talk) 00:52, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I disagree, I could easily perceive his face getting pale and veiny black color creeping into it. And I believe that's what the source says as well. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 10:30, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Ditto. I missed it for the first few colossi, but by colossus 4 I was definitely suspicious and by 6 I was certain, and by 7 I had begun to suspect the message.
A few months ago, I read Well Played 1.0, which has a good essay called "Losing Your Grip: Futility and Dramatic Necessity in Shadow of the Colossus":

"Leaving aside this brief moment of awareness, Wander’s transformation through the story is primarily one of loss. This is manifested in two developments throughout the game. The first is Wander’s bodily degradation from level to level. The struggle that Wander goes through to defeat each colossus and the death he suffers after each victory take their toll on Wander, represented by his slow loss of color and weight. The effect is subtle from level to level, but by the end of the game, the change is dramatic – Wander has gone from a healthy-looking warrior to a white, gaunt shadow of his former self. This is a purely visual change; the player suffers no gameplay effect from the transformation, but the degeneration is no less striking. And Wander suffers a similar emaciation of his social world when Agro is taken from him on the path to the final colossus. Agro is lost as the horse throws Wander across a collapsing bridge, plummeting to his seeming death in order to further Wander’s quest. At this moment, Wander is allowed a moment of emotion to grieve his loss, but it is only momentary. After a few calls and a lingering look into the chasm, Wander turns back to his climb with no further reference to the loss. Between both of these developments, Wander’s quest can be seen as a set of sacrifices, both of body and of companionship."

This is a published book, mind you, and thus a RS; that should, I think, settle the issue. --Gwern (contribs) 13:55 13 January 2010 (GMT)
After playing the time trials I will say that he did get paler and his hair far darker but I'm still pretty sure those marks were just dirt. I never actually thought otherwise. Also I never noticed the horns. Those are the two things that I didn't really notice. --24.46.117.40 (talk) 01:57, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Third Colossi Needs Environment To Be Defeated?[edit]

The article says that the first two Colossi can be defeated in a straightforward manner but the majority of the following battles requires the player to use the surrounding environment. But I don't recall any necessity for the environment against the third Colossus. It wasn't until the fourth Colossus that the player needed to use the surrounding environment to defeat the foe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.46.117.40 (talk) 00:24, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

You need to stand on a stone block to get him to break his bracelet thing. rʨanaɢ (talk) 01:23, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Ciccoricco 2008 ?[edit]

Hi everybody! Does anyone know which book or article ref 35 (Ciccoricco 2008) came from, so that it could be cited fully (title, publisher, page number, etc). Kaguya-chan (talk) 21:38, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

It's the same as ref 71. I'll edit it. rʨanaɢ (talk) 21:45, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Oops. Thank you for clearing that up. It makes more sense now. Kaguya-chan (talk) 22:02, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

There is a metal band called "Shadow of the Colossus"[edit]

They took their name from the videogame, also the band's logo, album artwork and song's lyrics are related to the game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11f2-1-bG-0&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLB256679AC81431B4 http://www.facebook.com/SOTCofficial

I think this must be mentioned, but i don't know in what part of the article place it. Nicrorus (talk) 02:11, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Information in Japanese artbook[edit]

An artbook for Shadow of the Colossus was released exclusively in Japan, and contains over two hundred pages of information. It can be read online here, but as I said, it's Japanese, and the accompanying translations are incomplete and unconfirmed. There's an article about the artbook over at the Team Ico Wiki, and it contains a list of things which it claims to have been revealed in the artbook, such as:

  • The voice heard whenever Wander defeats a colossus is Mono, asking him to stop. The voice grown stronger because she is gradually restored to life throughout the game.
  • Time does not flow in the Forbidden Lands; it was frozen as part of the spell that imprisoned Dormin. This is why it always seems to be daytime. When Wander arrives at the beginning of the game, the seal begins to loosen, and the flow of time slowly begins to reassert itself. By the end of the game, time is flowing again, which is presumably why the final colossus (whose location is called "The Broken Seal") is fought during the night.
  • The credits montage shows what Mono sees when she is resurrected.
  • Agro's survival after falling off the bridge is miraculous, and the developers think that a supernatural force intervened to save her.
  • The hawks at the beginning and the ending of the game are one and the same; this is meant to convey they idea that the game's story is a legend, being told and retold.

There's plenty more where that came from, including details on the game's original alternate ending, which was planned to be accessible to players who had Ico game saves on their memory cards. A fan wiki isn't a reliable source, so I'm hoping a Japanese speaker will be able to confirm whether this is an accurate description of the information in the artbook. If so, it belongs in the Wikipedia article too. —Flax5 15:37, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Argo is a female?[edit]

I will admt that I didn't look at the reference, as it had no web link, but I believe that Argo is male. In-game, when one first plays and is taught how to ride Wander's horse, it calls Argo, "him." Shall we change the current wording to "him" then, or if this should be controversial change the wording to "it"? The Sackinator (talk) 16:28, 25 March 2013 (UTC) Since I have received no responses, I will simply reword it. The Sackinator (talk) 20:59, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

The Japanese source for "she" is longstanding and genuine, so I'd hesitate to toss it out completely. Instead I've rephrased the entire paragraph to avoid pronouns, and added one extra sentence about the conflicting sources. I've also included the exact line where the in game instructions use "him". Rapture's Sander Cohen (talk) 21:45, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Bravo! The latest revision looks great. The Sackinator (talk) 20:43, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Dead Links[edit]

Using the Checklinks tool, I've updated this article's dead links. A few notes:

  • Ref 10 (fixed) 404 error. Page cannot be crawled by Wayback due to Robots.txt. Updated with current URL on Gamespot.com.
  • Ref 14 (fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
  • Ref 18 (fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
  • Ref 29 (fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
  • Ref 34 (fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
  • Ref 44 (fixed) 404 error. Page cannot be crawled by Wayback due to Robots.txt. Page no longer available on Gamespot.com. Updated with archive.today.
  • Ref 46 (fixed) connection issue. Updated with Wayback.
  • Ref 59 (fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
  • Ref 67 (replaced) see below.
  • Ref 70 (removed) see below.
  • Ref 71 (now 70)(fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
  • Ref 75 (now 74)(fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
  • Ref 77 (now 76)(fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
  • Ref 79 (now 78)(fixed) redirect loop. Page cannot be crawled by Wayback due to Robots.txt. Page no longer available on Gamespot.com. Updated with archive.today.
  • Ref 80 (now 79)(fixed) redirect loop. Page cannot be crawled by Wayback due to Robots.txt. Page no longer available on Gamespot.com. Updated with archive.today.
  • Ref 81 (now 80)(fixed) redirect loop. Page cannot be crawled by Wayback due to Robots.txt. Page no longer available on Gamespot.com. Updated with archive.today.
  • Ref 82 (now 81)(fixed) redirect loop. Page cannot be crawled by Wayback due to Robots.txt. Page no longer available on Gamespot.com. Updated with archive.today.
  • Ref 83 (now 82)(fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
  • Ref 84 (now 83)(fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
  • Ref 85 (now 84)(fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
  • Ref 88 (now 87)(not fixed) 404 error. No archive exists on Wayback, WebCite, or archive.today. A search on GamesRadar didn't turn up anything. Added dead link tag.
  • Ref 92 (now 91)(fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
  • Ref 93 (now 92)(fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.

Some other problems I noticed:

Ref 20 - An erroneous citation follows the ref tag named "ignpreview" at the end of the second to last paragraph in the development section. The problem is that (1) this reference is to 1up.com, and (2) the refname "ignpreview" is used elsewhere in the article (with a different set of cite web parameters), causing this citation to not show up in the refernces section. Here is the erroneous citation. Someone who is more familiar with the article, please add this back in where appropriate and with the correct citation data.

cite web | author=IGN site staff | year=2005 | title=Shadow of the Colossus PS2 Preview | url=http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3142480&did=1 | work=1UP.com | accessdate=August 2, 2006

Ref 67 - While I did find an archive of the original citation, I think it'd be better to directly cite Famitsu.com's page for SOTC rather than a third party reprint of a third party reprint. Updated with new citation.

Ref 70 - This dead link simply linked to the reviews section on Gamespot.com, and the only archive redirects to the review cited in Ref 10. However, since the citation is apparently used to back up a claim about Eurogamer (which already has the proper source), and since it is only referenced once, I'm removing it instead of merging it. If you feel this was done in error, please replace it with Ref 10 (refname "gamespotreview") instead on adding back the broken link. Below is the removed citation.

ref name="scores" cite web | editor=GameSpot site staff | year=2005 | title=Shadow of the Colossus for PlayStation 2 Reviews | url=http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/adventure/wandaandthecolossus/review.html?mode=web | work=GameSpot | accessdate=July 30, 2006

Ref 71 (now 70) - No consensus was reached in the brief discussion over using Thunderbolt as a reference. Since there is certainly a wealth of reviews for this game, someone more familiar with the subject matter might consider replacing it. Here is a list of sources considered reliable by WPVG, and here is a custom google search that only searches sites on the reliable source list.

Ref 78, 79, 80, 81 - All had identical citation data (excepting URL). I modified the citation names with page numbers to distinguish between them.

Ref 83, 84, 85 - All had identical citation data (excepting URL). I modified the citation names with page numbers to distinguish between them.

This review was not comprehensive and there may be problems I missed. Someone more familiar with the article might want to go through and review the other citations to make sure everything else is in order. --chrisFjordson (talk) 03:57, 29 April 2014 (UTC)