Talk:Shetland

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Images[edit]

I should note that especially in the history section there are stack-up issues with images on "standard" 1080p widescreen displays eg 1920 wide - probably just one too many images. I'll let someone else try to fix this.Oranjblud (talk) 01:06, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

I can't replicate the problem - you might want to look at your thumbnail image size preferences? Ben MacDui 07:51, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Map[edit]

I'm surprised there's no map showing Shetland's position relative to both Scotland and Norway, given the history. 86.168.134.129 (talk) 15:27, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Decent point - although it might be as useful at Scandinavian Scotland as here. Can you suggest one - maybe from here? Ben MacDui 08:41, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

How about this one or this one? Hogweard (talk) 21:35, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Done and thanks. Ben MacDui 09:05, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Section headers[edit]

I am not sure what logic User:Blairtummock is using but the distinctions between the periods of Norse, Scottish and UK rule are both useful as general historical markers and in this particular case the latter is a particularly important break with the past. It is fairly normal practice for Scottish island GAs and to the best of my recollection has never been queried before. If there is any credible logic for proposing a change it would be better to discuss it rather starting an unsolicited edit war. Ben MacDui 09:16, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Temp[edit]

The stated lowest recorded temperature in Shetland, 16 °F (-9 °C), sounds implausibly high. After all, this is at the same latitude as the southern end of the Greenland ice cap; and based on the absence of trees in the pictures of Shetland, the area arguably qualifies as tundra. London, an urban heat island, in the same climate zone but much farther south, has colder weather than that, in many winters. Even Brownsville, Texas, on the ocean and barely outside the tropics, has, according to the Wikipedia article on it, had it colder, 12 °F (-11 °C). Can a citrus-growing area plausibly have a colder lowest recorded temperature than a tundra region?--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 11:52, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

My immediate reaction was to agree with you, given the latitude of the islands, however, the section also states "the climate all year round is moderate due to the influence of the surrounding seas", with a reference provided. The lowest temperature given also has a citation from the Shetland Islands Council (2005). This is consistent with the average temperatures in the template below (separately sourced), which are significantly higher. Until we can find a reference to a much lower temperature, from a reliable source, then we'll have to stick to that figure. -- Hazhk Talk to me 12:23, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
I understand the idea of a moderated climate, but the difference in latitude between Shetland and Brownsville is huge, almost 40% of the distance from pole to equator. In terms of absolute latitude difference, this is equivalent to a place that's 20 °N versus 55 °N; there is no way the more northern of the two places would have a higher minimum recorded temperature (assuming both are on the sea or at least at low elevation). Also, in the case of Shetland, we have cold air from Greenland; this is much colder than the cold air from Canada that might affect Brownsville, and has a shorter distance to travel; the distance from Lerwick to Ittoqqortoormiit, Greenland is only 1490 km (see [1]), whereas the distance from Brownsville to Morden, Manitoba, very near the U.S. border, is 2584 km. Also, did you check the Shetland Islands Council (2005)? (Is it available online? there is no external link provided in the Wikipedia page.) Also, does the source explicitly state the 16 °F (-9 °C) to be the minimum recorder temperature, as opposed to the minimum temperature for a particular year? Is the climate record thorough?
Also, the template shows average daily minimum temperatures, which are 34 °F (1 °C) for the coldest months, only 18 °F (10 °C) warmer than aforementioned record minimum temperatures. Average annual minimum temperature will be considerably lower, and record minimum temperature will be lower still. This is a very narrow range of temperatures into which to fit average daily minimum (for the coldest month), average annual minimum, and absolute minimum temperatures.
Btw, Tórshavn lists an average January temperature that also may be implausibly high, 38.1 °F (3.4 °C), higher than Shetland's 37.5 °F (3 °C) (extrapolated as being midway between the stated 34 °F (1 °C) min and 41 °F (5 °C) max). Tórshavn is even farther north, at 62 °N, while Shetland is only 60 °N. Could someone please check the data for Tórshavn. (This may be hindered because Google Translate does not offer Faroese.)--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 12:55, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

County and towns of Zetland in Registers of Scotland[edit]

Why is Shetland not noted as a county on Shetland, as it is listed as a county in "The Registers of Scotland, Land Register Counties, leaflet", which has a list of 73 towns in the County of "Orkney & Zetland" see Registers of Scotland. Publications, leaflets, Land Register Counties. http://www.ros.gov.uk/public/publications/leaflets.html ? The towns in Zetland (separate list for Orkney) were: 1. Aith 2.Baltasound 3. Bigton 4. Bixter 5.Brae 6.Bressay 7.Brettabister 8.Bridge End 9.Bridge of Walls 10.Brough 11.Burravoe 12.Camb 13.Cullivoe 14.Cunningsburgh 15.Dunrossan 16.East Isle 17.East Yell 18.Eshaness 19.Fair Isle 20.Fetlar 21.Foula 22.Garderhause 23.Girlata 24.Gott 25.Gremista 26.Gulberwick 27.Gutcher 28.Hamer 29.Hamnavoe 30.Heylor 31.Hillswick 32.Lerwick 33.Levenwick 34.Lochend 35.Lower Hillhead 36.Mid Yell 37.Mossbank 38.Muckle Roe 39.North Roe 40.Ollaberry 41.Out Skerries 42.Papa Stour 43.Quarff 44.Quendale 45.Reawick 46.Sandness 47.Sandwick 48.Scalloway 49.Scousburgh 50.Sellafirth 51.Skellister 52.Skerries 53.Sullom 54.Sumburgh Airport 55.Symbister 56.Tresta 57.Ulsta 58.Unst 59.Upper Sound 60.Uyeasound 61.Vidlin 62.Virkie 63.Voe 64.Walls 65.Weisdale 66.West Isle 67.West Sandwick 68.Wester 69.Quarff 70.Westerskeld 71.Whalsay 72.Whiteness 73.Yell. Scotire (talk) 13:00, 19 July 2013 (UTC)


Neutrality of this article is in question[edit]

The whole article minimizes and dismisses Scottish influences and culture on Shetland. It highlights 'When Shetland became part of the Kingdom of Great Britain in 1707,', this is not true as Shetland has never joined the UK, Scotland did and in 1603. The Scottish Parliament was never dissolved, it just did not reconvene until 1999.

The language used across the article is anti-Scottish and is used to highlight differences and no inclusion of what it shares with fellow Scots.

Headlines like 'Pawned to Scotland' and 'Increasing Scottish interest' again minimize and degrade Scottish history of the islands and is alsmost propaganda against how Scottish the islands are.

Caithness, The Western Isles, Yorkshire and parts of Ireland where also heavily Norse and part of the Norse crown at some point, as was Normandy and other huge parts of Europe. Highlighting 'norse' heritage of Shetland is highlighting one small part of a bigger picuture.

'Early British Rule' is just odd. I do not see any other British article highlighting that Ipswich, London or Scilly Islands had a change of rule in 1707...so why does Shetland?

"Scottish and local traders" again the language used is used to make it sound like Shetlanders are not Scottish...propaganda.

The Shetland independence article and talk is based on one article published in the NewStatesman and nothing else.

All in all the article is not suitable and the language needs serious editing as it is currently reading like westminster anti-Scottish propaganda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blairtummock (talkcontribs) 12:15, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps if had the time I would attend to the individual points you make. However I don't right now and in general your comments seem to me to be over-sensitive. To take one example, can you explain to me why you think phrases such as 'Pawned to Scotland' and 'Increasing Scottish interest', which seem to me to be reasonably neutral "minimize and degrade Scottish history". A second might be that no-one in Yorkshire was speaking a Norse dialect until relatively recently - but then neither your opinion nor mine really matter. Can you point to credible sources that approach the topic in a wholly different way? No-one is pretending that Shetland is not part of Scotland - it does however have a unique history and the sources I have tend to mention that. Ben MacDui 18:34, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

"Perhaps if had the time I would attend to the individual points you make. However I don't right now and in general your comments seem to me to be over-sensitive."

If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem, it is not healthy to sit and 'own' wikipedia pages. Making sure there is no vandalism, yes, sitting like a propaganda analyst, no. I think it is clearly time that you back off and take less ownership as you clearly have issues of neutrality.

"Yorkshire was speaking a Norse dialect until relatively recently". People in Cumbria spoke Old Welsh dialects until the 19th cent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_tan_tethera), people in Cornwall spoke Cornish until the 17th Century, Calais was maainly Flemish speaking until the early 20th century. There is nothing unique in having different languages and dialects as they existed all over the place. Shetlanders would also have spoken Scots and would have been a multi-lingual society for many centuries, with Norse being less wide spoken and marginal over time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blairtummock (talkcontribs) 16:34, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Your tone strikes me as mildly threatening and lacking in assumptions of good faith, but let's not dwell on that. Do you have something useful to say that's backed up by credible sources? If you do than sensible discussion can follow. I don't recall stating that Shetland was unique in having multiple languages and dialects and I notice that the Cornwall article has a section both on the Cornish language and on 'national identity'. Perhaps you consider this to be "westminster anti-English propaganda"? - but then I confess to some confusion about your motivations. Ben MacDui 19:39, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
I agree with Ben. Cla68 (talk) 06:19, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
I've no axe to grind, and I can see nothing to justify the "POV" box. Horis (talk) 20:23, 27 December 2013 (UTC)