Talk:Shiva

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edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for Shiva:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
    1. Worship and Festivals section (Proposed)
    2. Family and Consorts section (proposed)
    3. We need to include the philosophical angle; Shiva as:
      1. Prakāśa - supreme light (Prakasa)
      2. Anuttarā - ultimate reality (Anuttara)
      3. Cit - supreme consciousness (see Kashmir Shaivism)
      4. Substrate of reality, the mystical experience "Everything is Shiva"
      5. the Self, Atman (Shiva Sutras of Vasugupta 1st verse "Chaitanyam Atman")
    4. The divine couple Shiva-Shakti (Kaula#Kula_as_the_divine_couple_Shiva-Shakti) and the triad Shiva-Shakti-Nara (see Trika)
    Good article Shiva has been listed as one of the Philosophy and religion good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
    Article milestones
    Date Process Result
    January 3, 2008 Good article nominee Listed
    June 6, 2010 Good article reassessment Kept
    Current status: Good article
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    Brahma Kumaris[edit]

    Brahma Kumar and Brahma Kumaris follow God Shiva. We have 1,000,000 followers and 8,500 centers and give accurate knowledge, also associated with United Nations and many VIPs come. What is problem?

    Our WikipediA homepage has many references.

    shiva's son ayyappa[edit]

    Namaskaram all. this talk page new section created to stop edit war.especially edit war created by the user Redtigerxyz. Please explain mr Redtigerxyz why ayyappa name do not occur in the lead?NamaskaramEshwar.omTalk tome 19:06, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

    According to talk page of the user Redtigerxyz ,what he mentioned as a reference which is not reliable reference.Will you agree MrRedtigerxyz?NamaskaramEshwar.omTalk tome 20:06, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

    Ayyappa is a regional deity from Kerala, which hardly any basis in the pan-Hindu scriptures like the Puranas or the epics. There are several regional deities who enjoy the same claim of being Shiva's child; see "Ascetic and Householder" section. Why should Ayyappa be given priority over Manasa from Bengal, Ashokasundari from Gujarat, the Tamil Aiyangar or Hanuman (who in only 1 scripture the Shiva Purana is the son of Shiva and Mohini; not in lead as a fringe belief).--Redtigerxyz Talk 16:26, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

    Namaskaram mr red tiger. Do you have any idea or list for pan hindu gods.let me know then will it help me in future?how to say it s fringe belief?could you explain ?Then it more helpfull fr me.might you do that for me.thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eshwar.om (talkcontribs) 22:00, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
    Actually the infobox only contains the name of those children of Shiva which are accepted by Majority of scriptures. Kartikeya and Ganesha are but not Aiyappa. He is only accepted as Shiva's child in some scriptures. There are many other children of Shiva in other legends and scriptures like Ashokasundari, Vishnu maya, Sasha and many more. But this infobox should only contains those which are accepted Shiva's children by majority of legends and scriptures. These other children of Shiva like Aiyappa are not mentioned at all in majority of scriptures. MythoEditor (talk) 08:08, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
    hi MythoEditor. can you tell any reliable indian goverment source for that.(both state, centeral govt of india)?!!Eshwar.omTalk tome 11:54, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
    We wouldn't use a government source for something like this. Such sources are too often political, determined by the party in power at the time.Dougweller (talk) 13:23, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
    hi mr Dougweller Namaskaram(hai), Are you making fun about Govt of india and its policy.Let me know.if it is not then what do you mean.what do you thinking about People and Govt of India.i will escalate this matter.but before let me know something from you?Eshwar.omTalk tome 19:07, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
    Eshwar.om do you yourself have any source that Ayyappa is mentioned in any Sanskritic texts. You don't and that my friend is double standards. Academic sources like books are generally preferred in mythological articles since they are written by academic scholars (atleast sometimes) and thus much more reliable and accurate than some random website on the internet that contains information about religion even if it's a governmet source. Actually government sources are generally not used on Wikipedia. Here is one of the books that mentions that Ayyappan is worshipped mainly in Tamil Nadu and Kerala (http://books.google.co.in/books?id=xTJpU6NQ5B4C&pg=PA124&dq=ayyappan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=eFqZU9vgAsanlAWVwoHoAQ&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAjgU#v=onepage&q=ayyappan&f=false)
    Also I wonder why do you want really insist so much on inserting Ayyappa's name. Do you in actual have any proof that Ayyapan is mentioned in the majority of the Sanskritic tex A person does not always have what he wishes on Wikipedia. Sometimes you just have to accept it and move on because that's how Wikipedia works.. MythoEditor (talk) 07:52, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
    Namaskaram Mr MythoEditor, You said "A person does not always have what he wishes on Wikipedia. Sometimes you just have to accept it and move on because that's how Wikipedia works.,yes your correct but dont forget it will suit for you too.and dont forget you blocked recently moretimes.how kaali for west bangal similar likr Tamilnadu main god is karthick.yes tamils worship ayyappa too.Tamil worship vishnu,siva,even some where in tn bramma too.both vaishnava and siva bakthi movement start from Tamil speaking region of south india.i know you know history atleast.yes i am from that region.so better than you i know well.i hope you Can understand.dont forget wikipedia is reliable.Namaskaram Eshwar.omTalk tome 18:54, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
    When I said person does not always have what he wishes on Wikipedia I wasn't intimidating you. I was just telling you it's not necessary that our edits will be accepted by the others and everything I said was in good faith. I already know Shiva and Vishnu and other goda are worshipped in Tamil Nadu. I'm an Indian too. But Ayappa is mostly worshipped in Kerala and Tamil Nadu but Ayyappa is not worshipped by North Indians. I too didn't want Ashoksundari article to be created since I thought she was a work of fiction. I started edit warring over it which I accept was wrong on my part. Later when I found out that theAshoksundari did exist in Padma Purana I myself endorsed the article about Ashoksundari not becauseof any fear because i had realized my mistake and I had even apologized for it.. But that was in the past so you should stop trying to say yo someone that they have been blocked especially when there comments and edits are in good faith. Now I ask you Eshwar.om do you have any proof that Ayyappa exists in the majority of Hindu scriptures like Kartikeya and Ganesha or any Sanskritic scripture? You don't and yet while you ask that others o prove their statement with proof you yourself are not providing any proof for your statement. It is disappointing that while you much are more experienced you are resorting to such double standards. MythoEditor (talk) 07:25, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
    User:Eshwar.om I am not making fun of anything, I am simply stating the fact that the Indian government is not considered by Wikipedia to be a reliable source on this sort of religious matter. Our policy on sources is at WP:VERIFY and WP:RS. This doesn't mean that if they made a statement on a religious matter we wouldn't include it, just that we wouldn't see them as the deciding element. There was once an attempt to insist that Jayadeva was born in Odisha because there were state publications saying he was, but as that is disputed we simply made it clear that there was a dispute and did not accept the statement by the state government as fact. You are still a very new editor and like all new editors have a lot to learn about. At about 125,000 edits(a bit more than your 790) I am still learning. Dougweller (talk) 11:32, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
    Hi Dougweller,

    i understand.thank you for your Explanation.Yes compare with you i am still a very new editor.At about 125,000 edits(a bit more than my 790) you are still learning.But i am start learning. You are always my Inspiration.Please Remember no Quesions on that.thank you.Eshwar.omTalk tome 03:19, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

    @Eshwar.om: I recently got to this article and have read about this whole situation. Basically User:MythoEditor is right in saying that unless you yourself have a proof that a deity is worshipped in some place you cannot ask others provide a proof that they are not worshipped in that place since doing that is a double standard. Although we cannot explicitly mention in an article that the deity is not worshipped there however the lack of existence of proof of that deity being worshipped there can itself be somewhat taken that they are not worshipped there sometimes. Also remember that MythoEditor has already proved that Ayyappa is mostly worshipped in Tamil Nadu and Kerala. That means even if he might be worshipped by any other state his worship is very limited. I have read many scriptures of Hinduism and never have I once encountered the name of any other children of Shiva other tthan Kartikeya and Ganesha nor I have read anywhere that name of the "other children" of Shiva exists in the Sanskritic scriptures although I have read that Ashokasundari exists in Padma Purana. Adding Ayyappa's name is not only unjustified but also somewhat WP:UNDUE since it should only exist those children's names who are held to exist by a majority of scholars and are mentioned in the majority of Hiundu legends and scriptures. For example just because somebody says that Mahatama Gandhi had 5 children should we list a 5th child? No unless it can be proven that he in real has a 5th child we cannot even mention about this in his article. Similar is this case. I'm not saying that Ayyappa is a flase deity just that he is not mentioned in the majority of scriptures and Hindu legends. KahnJohn27 (talk) 12:13, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

    i am sorry Mr KahnJohn27.What your saying? even siva s another son karthick is mostly worshipped in Tamil Nadu and also Kerala.Mainly in tamilnadu.so will you remove his name too from lead.Is that your telling?even karthick called God of Tamils.I hope you know those history and all.Eshwar.omTalk tome 18:58, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

    @User:Eshwar.om Sorry for pinging you after so much time for this. Kartikeya is even worshipped in North India and is regarded as Shiva's son by maority of North Indians. However Ayyappa is neither worshipped nor his existence is regarded as true by North Indians. Ayyappa is only a god of South Indian Hindus. While Kartikeya is regarded as a son of Shiva by everyone. As simple as that. KahnJohn27 (talk) 12:56, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
    hi kahn john any way you accepted Ayyappa is only a god of South Indian Hindus.my question is South india belongs to india or belongs to some others country?!Eshwar.omTalk tome 21:17, 9 March 2015 (UTC).

    Shiva infobox image[edit]

    User:Eshwar.om, The current image was discussed at Talk:Shiva/Archive_3 and put after a consensus there. Please discuss before putting a new image. The new image of Vrishabhantika is poor quality and does not show details of Shiva's iconography like third eye, Ganga, moon, Trishula clearly. --Redtigerxyz Talk 14:31, 8 July 2014 (UTC) ok Redtigerxyz,Eshwar.omTalk tome 06:11, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

    Other religions[edit]

    User:Lindashiers, I think that we can probably remove the Kiranti/Kirat people reference that has been made about Shiva, if we were to search about "lord of animals" we can find no sources. It has been added to the article for long period, but I don't know if there is really some notability compared to other historical pieces that section includes. Figure has some strong connection with Nepal, China, etc. It should be described differently. Bladesmulti (talk) 16:30, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

    Hi. For personal reasons I can't edit this article for the next few days. I look fwd to taking this further after that. Sorry. Lindashiers (talk) 16:37, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

    Audio wrong[edit]

    He is pronouncing it Shiv, it should be pronounced Shiva. I'm deleting it but some asshole is putting it back. Can someone keep that change permanent? 207.68.250.79 (talk) 09:59, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

    While you are correct in removing it, please don't attack other editors. Materialscientist, do you have a reason why you reverted? --NeilN talk to me 11:59, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
    The fact that the other edit by the IP changed Mount Kailash to Mount Kailasha may be why. Dougweller (talk) 15:24, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

    I did that too.Should be Kailasha, not Kailash. There's no halantha in the ending. why not? i live in a free country, someone did something asinine.i called them out on it. 207.68.250.79 (talk) 19:38, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

    WP:COMMONNAME. On the English-language Wikipedia we use the names most commonly found in English language sources. And please comment on content, not the contributor. --NeilN talk to me 21:01, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

    but it's wrong. most people are ignorant of it so they misspell it. or they are using regional pronunciation, not the actual/original one.

    i did make a change to the actual content, i only called out the a-hole when he started acting like one. 207.68.250.79 (talk) 21:08, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

    You broke the link. You aren't free to do that. You are free to go to the article's talk page and argue for it being renamed, but we use the most common name in reliable English language sources, which is Kailash. Dougweller (talk) 21:11, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

    If the link is wrong, then it's wrong. That's not my fault. i saw a mistake and i corrected the mistake. Fuck what's reliable english language, what's oft available isn't always correct. It's a Sanskrit name. The actual name is Kailasha. In Hindi there's something called schwa deletion which leads to the ending being chopped off. and there happen to be way more Hindi speakers in India than any other language so you'll see a bias in english sources. so i beseech you to make the correction to reflect the correct name.207.68.250.79 (talk) 06:54, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

    btw, this is from the article itself. i didn't write this: Mount Kailāsa: 207.68.250.79 (talk) 06:57, 26 September 2014 (UTC)