Talk:Shock site

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News This article has been mentioned by a media organisation:

Finally a credible source that Meatspin is a shock site and should be added to this page[edit]

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2013/04/goatse/

"The early 2000s brought scores of Goatse knockoffs: Shock sites like Lemonparty.org, meatspin.com, and tubgirl.com each enshrined a single, nasty piece of porn for the delight of the savvy."

Surely this source (Wired Magazine) is credible andmainstream enough to allow for Meatspin's inclusion in the article.

Yep. And now that that crybaby MangoJuice is gone (hilariously enough driven off by some redneck with an IQ of 20), nobody will be crusading against the addition of Meatspin to this article. I'm adding it. ElectricPickle (talk) 19:19, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Upon Images[edit]

Now, I am not suggesting this to be prurient, however, this article might be improved by a screengrab from a shock site that is notorious to users of the internet, as, from the contents of the article, shock sites have cultural repurcussions. If somebody has the appropriate technology to blur out genitallia, then one could put on a picture of one of these websites, ideally one mentioned here. Pictures do help for people who find it hard to see small print, inter alias, it helps the formatting of the page to appear encyclopedic. I also suggest more video links describing the sites, within obscenity rules, of course.--Cymbelmineer (talk) 22:32, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

One Man, One Jar[edit]

I have added 'One Man, One Jar' together with an appropriate reference (an interview with a band, as a featured article on the website for 'Blurt' magazine. Please don't remove on sight as it does have a proper reference! Buckethed (talk) 00:24, 2 October 2010 (UTC) Would have been nice to not just remove this saying 'source is not notable enough' - e.g. what kind of notability meter was used etc??!. The source is as notable as most of the others used, it verifies the 'One Man, One Jar' perfectly. One Man, One Jar will be re-added soon, since the removal was unwarranted! (Note : this removal is different to removing the constant re-additions of meatspin, BME pain olympics final round (hatchet vs genitals) etc etc, which aren't posted with sources. Buckethed (talk) 08:03, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

OK, the entry is back, with a good number of references - didn't realise it was so notable to be honest :) I know it is one of the most shocking and disgusting sites, so please don't remove it for this reason alone :) Buckethed (talk) 17:41, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

If this site is to be removed, please discuss here first! The references are more notable than several other shock sites on this page (not peer reviewed scientific journals, but we can't get those for any shock sites) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Buckethed (talkcontribs) 08:37, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Thatsnotsexy[edit]

We should add information about thatsnotsexy.com in the page.113.211.132.81 (talk) 09:27, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

  • If you can find reliable sources, post them here, or 'Be Bold' and add it to the shock sites page... but only with references which are of higher quality than just 'personal blogs', or links to the particular picture of the old lady in question. Buckethed (talk) 18:37, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Meatspin[edit]

We should add information about meatspin.com in the page. --JohnnyLurg (talk) 01:17, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

  • This site has been added and removed many times; there are simply no references or sources of any reliability for it. If some can be found, post them here, and we can look at readding the site - but many people have tried to find references for the last 3-4 years, so it is probably not possible Buckethed (talk) 18:37, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2013/04/goatse/

Here's your reference — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.56.66.86 (talk) 22:38, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

One Man, One Jar - discussion[edit]

After the Good Faith removal by Delicious Carbuncle of 'One Man, One Jar', I think it is worth discussing the validity of keeping 'One Man, One Jar' in the article (in the context of how the Shock Sites article is currently managed.

The 'Shock Sites' article used to be called 'list of shock sites', and included things like Goatse, Tubgirl, Dolphinsex, Urinalpoop, Lemonparty, Meatspin, and many of the original shock sites. It had about 15-20 shock sites in total. The problem came with the fact that it really was just a list of shock sites, mainly without references except those pointing to the site itself.

There were many arguments about whether it was reliable to just point at a shock site (e.g. 'the reference of www.meatspi_n.com means that it exists, and it is a shock site, so it should be kept'). Eventually, it was decided that (as per Wikipedia policy), any shock site should actually be backed up by references. This resulted in the list being slimmed down greatly. Some of the original sites (such as the original, non-commercial meatspin.com, and tubgirl, did not survive the slimming down, as although they were the 'original' shock sites, not just the 'me-too' ones, they did not have any references whatsoever.

Ideally, on Wikipedia, all the sources should either be from BBC news / similiar quality sites (with the proviso that they are not just 'the story of the day', but news articles which have lasting impact e.g. a large earthquake etc), or even better from peer-reviewed journals. In the field of medicine, if something is not published in a peer- reviewed journal, it is not considered to be good evidence; 'expert opinion' is one of the lower levels in the hierachy of evidence when designing the SIGN / NICE / AMA medical guidelines.

For the shock sites article, the chances of finding references on major news sites, or in a peer-reviewed journal, are minimal. While these types of references are the MOST verifiable / reliable, it should be noted that verifiability / reliability is of course a spectrum; and we cannot always obtain references / sources at the purest / best end of that spectrum. There have been discussions by moderators in the past on this page, and it has been noted that we cannot expect broadsheet newspaper or peer-reviewed journal sources for this article, we will not accept personal blogs, or links to other lists of shock sites, or references containing only very tenuous links to the site (although this last category of reference can be useful). Going back to the medical field, even here, the utility of 'Evidence Based Medicine' (basing everything only on peer-reviewed journals) has been questioned, with one particular article being published in the [British Medical Journal] http://www.bmj.com/content/327/7429/1459.abstract directly question this approach.

With these points in mind, I would like to discuss the One Man, One Jar references:

The references are:

http://blurt-online.com/features/view/708

Blurt Magazine is a printer magazine, and has an accompanying website, blurt-online. This reference is actually a printed discussion about his experiences watching 'one man, one jar'. Admittedly, the description is pretty graphic (as well as his description of the response to it), but as it is not a blog (it is a published 'interview' in essence), it is a more reliable reference than the two lemonparty ones.

http://www.last.fm/music/Products+of+Monkey+Love/_/One+Man,+One+Jar

This reference is from a music / radio station website, listing an album 'One Man, One Jar' by a group 'Products of Monkey Love'. The description includes the statement 'Well anyway, this song is about that video, looking at the world from his perspective...' (after giving a full description of what happens in the One Man, One Jar video. Again, this reference therefore is more clear in content and more reliable than the two lemonparty ones.

http://thenextweb.com/socialmedia/2010/07/04/youtube-hacked-justin-bieber-videos-targeted/

(as well as the other two Justin Bieber references)

These confirm that Justin Bieber videos on Youtube were hacked, with 'OMG FAGGOT', a claim that he had just died in a horrific car accident, and also that 'One Man, One Jar' was substituted for some of the videos.

So, in summary, these references feature an interview with a band member discussing the site and his reaction to it as a shock site in detail, the second is a 'tribute' to the site (also, documenting clearly that it is a tribute to the video), the third group of references refer to the fact that the site was used as part of an attack on Justin Bieber Youtube videos (a classic use of a shock site essentially the same as 'bait and switch' as described in the Shock Site article.

I am now going to briefly discuss the 'Lemonparty' article:

The Lemonparty maxim article (ref 13) just mentions the word 'Lemon party' without content; and it mentions the phrase 'Lemon Party' in describing dialogue within a show Reference 12 'It's not an old man orgy if it's not a lemon party' is from bestweekever.tv (VH1), which is a blog (and with a link to a media spoof of Lemonparty - a lemon having a party).

I would say that these references are weaker than One Man, One Jar. I do not think Lemonparty should be removed; it meets the Shock Sites inclusion criteria which have been hammered out with years of discussion between Wikipedia editors and moderators, and has stood the test of time by not being removed for months / years. The current criteria are quite strict; allowing only four (or five with One Man, One Jar) sites to be listed. I am also aware of WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, but I am not using the fact that Lemonparty is weaker alone to justify inclusion of One Man, One Jar in this page; just using it as a reference for the Shock Sites inclusion criteria.

Comments? :) (other than TL;DR of course!) Buckethed (talk) 18:37, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Any views on this (particularly the references etc?) My opinion is that they meet notability criteria as above, and that the 'One Man, One Jar' site therefore has a place on this page.~

Of the references you posted above, only the Blurt Magazine article appears to meet Wikipedia standards for reliable secondary sources. The last.fm link is self-published and the nextweb link is a blog post. Given that the standard for notability generally requires multiple reliable sources, I think we still need at least one more indisputable source before the information can be added to the article. Uncle Dick (talk) 07:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
Discussions by Wikipedia administrators over the years on this site (check the logs) do note that shock sites are notoriously difficult to source. The standard for notability for creation of a new page does indeed require multiple sources. 'One Man, One Jar' does not have enough references to justify it's own page, but certainly does justify addition to this page, and should be re-added in due course. Out of interest, there are many, many mainstream news sources regarding the Justin Bieber hack. The sad thing is, they say 'pornography', rather than 'One Man, One Jar'. This is clearly due to the fact that bbc.co.uk, or cnn.com, are unlikely to say 'One Man, One Jar' (they are unlikely to know the name of the 'Porn' video). They are also unlikely to describe the contents of the video ('A man sitting on a jar, which breaks inside his rectum, followed by his removing the pieces excruciatingly slowly'). They would just say 'porn sites'. The nextweb link, in combination with the multiple BBC / CNN sites do verify what happened. In fact, this is one of the few sites (probably the only site on this page) that actually has sources backing up that it was used to shock unsuspecting people (e.g. Justin Bieber fans!) Buckethed (talk) 08:25, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
When the BBC or similar discuss the site by name we can consider adding it to this list but until then it simply isn't notable. As for lemonparty, I would remove it from this article, but I am reliably informed that it is operated by a prominent Wikipedia editor and thus protected from any such action. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:00, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
If we actually need the BBC or similiar (e.g. CNN) to discuss a shock site by name, before it is notable, then we should put this whole page up for AfD, and even Goatse / 2 Girls 1 Cup might not be notable!. With regard to 'Lemonparty' being operated by a prominent Wikipedia editor, and thus protected, I assume you are joking, but if not, that would make no difference to the inclusion here. Lemonparty has a reference of equal standing to the interview for 1 Man, 1 Jar (which is a reliable source), and 1 blog entry. The 'blog entry' source for 1 Man, 1 Jar is also not just a standard 'blog', but from an editor of a news site which happens to use a model which shares some features with a 'blog'. In addition, 1 Man 1 Jar was used as part of an attack on Justin Bieber sites which did make news sites such as BBC, but of course they would never describe it by name. The site is better-sourced than 'Lemonparty'. Lemonparty meets the inclusion criteria for this page, and 1 Man 1 Jar does too. (I do understand that 1 Man 1 Jar is so disgusting that many people would cringe, but that shouldn't be a reason for not including this notable site on this paqe). I would also note that Wikipedia does have inclusion guidelines that are on a per-page / per-section basis (e.g. the section on aviation incidents / accidents). 1 Man 1 Jar does *not* warrant its own page (yet), but does warrant addition to this site. Buckethed (talk) 03:09, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
I wasn't joking about lemonparty - take it out and see what happens. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 03:23, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
What would happen? Buckethed (talk) 00:20, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
Any chance at a discussion of why One Man One Jar, which has references, can't be included? (other than that fact it is disgusting?). At present it does meet the criteria which were hammered out for years on this particular page. Buckethed (talk) 06:40, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Delicious Carbuncle : Any chance at a discussion of why One Man, One Jar, which has *reliable* sources, can't be included?. At present it *does* meet the criteria which were hammered out for years on this particular page. I see you reverted 'Jarsquatter' recently, so you are still around on this page. Buckethed (talk) 06:16, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

FAO : Delicious Carbuncle[edit]

Hi! Just wondering what you have against 'One Man, One Jar' being added (other than that it is a disgusting shock site, that should not have a place on a wikipedia page?) You say 'please read the talk page again', but nothing has been added for almost a month?

I put the site back up a few days, with *more* proper references, as well as other references which were not of BBC / CNN quality (based on the previous discussions by Wikipedia Admins on this particular page, these references support the higher quality references).

At the present time, 'One Man, One Jar' is better referenced than 'Lemonparty'. I don't know why you aren't removing One Man One Jar and keeping Lemonparty, but I cannot believe that is is because a wikipedia admin owns the site! (as this would be against all that Wikipedia stands for, to be honest!)

I do believe that Lemonparty and One Man, One Jar both have a place on this site. I do not believe that these sites should have their own *page* (and the incredibly detailed sourcing you are requesting basically means you are wanting these shock sites to be eligible for a dedicated page on Wikipedia).

I will however respect your opinion as a more experience wikipedia user, and remove the Lemonparty entry too, to 'see what happens' as you said. I guess nothing will happen, since you are removing One Man, One Jar, which now has better sources, but if anything happens, that will be interesting in itself. Buckethed (talk) 06:59, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

I think this has already been more than adequately discussed, but to reiterate - your favourite shock site lacks coverage in reliable sources. As simple as that. This will likely never be a long list (on Wikipedia), as internet shock sites are not often discussed in any detail in reliable sources. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 18:28, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
It does have coverage in reliable sources - something most shock sites don't!. I don't have the time to carry on but will periodically look for more sources (I would note; reliable sources are needed - and they are available, but lesser quality sources can also be used (e.g. a news site which is says it is 'blog based', but which only has a small handful of selected editors). This reference was rejected, but is *not* a personal blog, and technically, you could argue is using the same model as BBC News :). This would be a useful supporting source. Anyway, 'One Man, One Jar' is eligible to be included here, but if it is deleted without any review of the sources, I will just get even more sources (a mix of full reliable, and lesser *non-personal blog* type sources, and return in a few months. (Also, I will watch this site, and remove truly non-notable stuff when it is added etc) :) Buckethed (talk) 21:46, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
Another thing; this isn't 'my favourite shock site'; I think my problem is that I am following the rules that were hammered out for this page by various Wikipedia Admins prior to your arrival; I understand that you reverted the addition of this shock site initially (it did meet criteria for this page even then), but I have since found more references for it; I understand you will auto-revert no matter what. My view is that I respect the guidelines set down by the admins in previous years, and that I add sites to this page that have at least 1 reliable source. I agree that 'One Man, One Jar' does not warrant a seperate wikipedia page, but I disagree applying the *page* notability rules to entries within a page such as this :S Buckethed (talk) 21:52, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Bagslap.com[edit]

Ok, am I the ONLY one mortified and upset that bagslap doesn't have it's own title? Bagslap is one of the most shocking re-directs on any internet site. It is also on the meatspinnetwrok.org, which I cant link to as that would be the end of this wikipedia account. notability is obvious. Add PLEASE!--Graythos1 (talk) 15:47, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Mr. Hands[edit]

Considering that Wikipedia has an article on the Enumclaw horse sex case, should Mr. Hands not have all the references it needs to be included in this list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.50.87.197 (talk) 06:20, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Kescalada, 24 April 2011[edit]

Under Lemonparty, please add Archer to the list of television shows that have referenced it. Unfortunately I couldn't find a clip to add as a citation like the other entries, probably because the show only aired on 4/21/11.

Current text: The image has been mentioned on some television shows such as a sketch on Talkshow with Spike Feresten,[1] and dialogue on 30 Rock,[2] and in the Flaming Moe episode of The Simpsons.[3]

Please change to: The image has been mentioned on some television shows such as a sketch on Talkshow with Spike Feresten,[4] dialogue on 30 Rock,[5] in the Flaming Moe episode of The Simpsons,[6] and in the Archer episode "Double Trouble."

Kescalada (talk) 16:23, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

X mark.svg Not done Please provide a reliable source, a youtube video won't cut it either. CTJF83 12:01, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Please change the tv shows referencing Lemon Party to include John Stewart's Daily Show on 9 May 2011. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.231.206.117 (talk) 03:16, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Distinction[edit]

Shouldn't there be some kind of distinction made between shock sites that are based on a single image/video (goatse, tubgirl, 2 girls, meatspin, etc) that does not change and those sites that are collections of material that changes over time (rotten.com, ogrish.com, etc). 87.114.102.136 (talk) 18:52, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Removal of sites[edit]

Do we really need a list of sites? It's fucking disgusting. These sites aren't going to help people looking for research. With that logic I've removed the list of sites. Cheers, Kevin12xd (talk) (contribs) 21:12, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

"Fucking disgusting" is hardly a reason to remove the list. Having a list of specific examples helps to illustrate the degree to which a shock site can be, well, shocking. Many of the sites that you de-listed are also fairly notable. List should be reinstated. 96.244.141.101 (talk) 23:11, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
I'm shocked that someone with reviewer and rollback privs would blatantly vandalize an article. I have taken the liberty of undoing his edits. Eminence2012 (talk) 11:29, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Viewer Discretion Is Advised (thus demonstrating the passive voice, better avoided)[edit]

Perhaps a warning advising those who land here by accident of search engines, etc, of the content herein? This page might, for instance, turn up in a search for "electric shock." The vivid descriptions of assorted shock sites tends to turn this wiki page into a shock site. An adult-only warning might dissuade young teenagers from reading the examples. Me, I've skimmed the depths of depravity decades ago on USENET groups where people post images that try to out-disgust each other. (You think that is disgusting, well, look at this!). A listing of the alt.sex newsgroups suggests that it may be wrong to impose one's own notions of moral depravity upon others. Just as the produce section of a grocery store contains a wide assortment, few choose one of everything, rather folks choose what they like. Something is wrong if it generates negative consequences for those involved. We cannot protect everyone from hurting themselves, even if the negative consequences do not present themselves a long time afterward. Hpfeil (talk) 18:57, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

It should be obvious that these are not safe for work. Besides, Wikipedia is not censored. ViperSnake151  Talk  19:57, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Reliable sources for Meatspin[edit]

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2013/03/fsu_campus_wifi_user_redirecte.php http://gawker.com/5990105/florida-state-student-faces-felony-charges-for-redirecting-schools-wifi-users-to-infamous-shock-site http://www.mnn.com/green-tech/computers/stories/wi-fi-on-florida-campus-redirected-to-porn-site


Would these qualify as reliable sources? If so, I think Meatspin warrants a section because it received news attention.

Sega31098 (talk) 18:08, 10 January 2014 (UTC)Sega31098 (talk) 18:08, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

  1. ^ It’s Not An Old Man Orgy If It’s Not a Lemon Party! Best Week Ever (VH1) official blog, September 2007.
  2. ^ [1] -- sample video at [2]
  3. ^ Clip of Simpsons Lemon Party Reference
  4. ^ It’s Not An Old Man Orgy If It’s Not a Lemon Party! Best Week Ever (VH1) official blog, September 2007.
  5. ^ [3] -- sample video at [4]
  6. ^ Clip of Simpsons Lemon Party Reference