Talk:Silent Hill

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Suggested sources[edit]

For "Development": [1]. Hula Hup (talk) 22:37, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

For "Reception":

We've got a bit of a serious problem here...[edit]

All right. Klondisha (talk · contribs) has been blanking sections of the article and made a few test edits. Before this gets into an edit war here, I am taking this discussion here to see if other editors can get involved. Any thoughts or opinions on this matter? Thanks, Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 22:48, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry, I have all the Silent Hill-related articles in my watchlist for months now, which I check daily. Hula Hup (talk) 08:59, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Understood. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 22:10, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Book of Memories is NOT a "Main Game"![edit]

This should be listed as a spin-off.

The game is an arcade style top-down viewpoint hack and slash / shooter.

Gameplay will be nothing like previous Silent Hill games. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 06:43, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

The section's name was changed from "Main video games" to "Installments" for reasons explained in the accompanying edit summary. Labeling games without the labels being supported by reliable sources would constitute original research, which contravenes Wikipedia's rule on verifiability. Currently, no source in the article uses these terms for Book of Memories. You are welcome to find one or multiple reliable sources which support these and add them to the article or to this talk page for someone else to add them to the article. The only characterization given to the game is "non-canonical" by source No 12 of the article. Hula Hup (talk) 09:43, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

i have a qustin were is it said its noncanon i saw source no 12 and it only said it outside the MAIN CANON that doesnt mean noncanon just that its a spinoff that has nothing to do with the main story like the arcade or the escape so tell me were the words NON-CANONICAL at in NO 12 — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:32, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

The phrase "it is outside of the main canon" means that it is non-canonical. The term "spin-off" should not be added if not used by reliable sources. Hula Hup (talk) 20:45, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

It's NOT alternate dimensions[edit]

Silent Hill's 1-4 do not ever take place in alternate realities, ever, which is mentioned quite clearly in the games. Why IGN is quoted as a source for this is also ridiculous. One has to only look to all games made after 4 to realise that the majority of people outside Team Silent have no idea what their talking about.

The quote from Harry Mason is also misinterpreted. "This whole town is being invaded" means that the nightmare is coming into our reality, it's not taking place in another dimension at all.

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:24, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

That is all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BobtheVila (talkcontribs) 22:32, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

I am in agreement. I've played all 4 of these games and there's no mention of a dimension. From what I have read and listened to over the years, it seems as though the alternate dimension stuff is post Silent Hill 4, in which case, regarding the 4th game or prior, it's not satisfactory to use alter dimensions in discussions unless to contrast from later games. There was a video (or a series of them, I think), done by several guys who proved this exact point using the publishers own material and demonstrating how this misunderstanding takes place. They may not be IGN or some other high profile source, but it was clear they they cite their sources and walk you through the logic and misconceptions. I'll have to find that video, maybe it can be a reference. But as I stated earlier, it's only mentioned by developers of the Homecoming game an beyond that there are other dimensions (that I am aware of), so in those situations I don't think its appropriate to remove that information. Keep in mind the games were switched to western developers who took on a different perspective. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lackingnovelist (talkcontribs) 05:27, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Metacritic and Gamerankings scores[edit]

An anonymous user has been updating the scores without updating the "accessdate" attribute. Since the user seems incapable of understanding what that involves, I suggest that someone check _all_ the scores as they are right now, correct them if necessary and update the accessdate. I'll do it myself unless a nice person (hint: that means you!) does it before I get around to do it myself. Please leave a note as an answer to this comment so we don't repeat the effort. Nczempin (talk) 14:50, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

You mean in this article or in other Silent Hill articles? This article has correct ratings for Downpour currently, but I don't remember when they had been last changed, you are welcome to clean-up the access dates. Hula Hup (talk) 16:59, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
In this article, by the IP that starts with 217. They were changed around June 19, and if you have checked them since then, it is sufficient to change the accessdate to any time between June 19 and whenever you checked (if you don't recall the exact date). I don't need to check them again myself if you say they're currently accurate. Nczempin (talk) 17:16, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Taken care of, they were updated on June 19 indeed. Thank you for notifying me of the matter, as I hadn't noticed it at all. Hula Hup (talk) 21:52, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Protection of Silent Hill Articles from ELABORATE THEORIST Descriptions Requested (UPDATED AGAIN AND IS MUST SEE)[edit]

[EDIT: I have since updated my notes on SH, see my post below] Note the above reference of a former Team Silent member who worked closely with the rest of the crew.

First of all, the alterations that I have made were more policy friendly for being vague and more to Team Silent's facts on the series. This multi-verse non-sense is a staple only amongst a region of fans and IS actually against the policy of wikipedia to insert, without it being just a speculation page. It's too explicit where there isn't much real evidence of said named worlds. The reference given for a multi-verse, The Book of Lost Memories, is not in sync with the information it was linked to. At least with the alterations I made, people can interpret this their own way, so it's win win for multi-verse theorists and those who go by what TS actually gave us.

Otherwise, it's just not good to give to those new. Team Silent was not making a game with it's star being typical sci-fi terminology, of alternating dimensions, but the mind. This multi-verse complex takes that and smashes it into a simpler level non-psychological, science fiction horror franchise. BobtheVila (talk)

Unfortunately, we cannot prove that the said person belonged to Team Silent, but even if we could, their statement should have been published in a reliable first- or third-party source to be considered correct. Almost all third-party reliable sources mention that the Otherworld is an alternate dimension. The term "multiverse" is not necessarily a term of science fiction, as it is featured in multiple fields, such as cosmology, physics, religion, and philosophy, and does not provide false information given that most of the third-party sources state that the Otherworld is an alternate dimension; a similar issue arose some time ago when the substance of the foggy sections of the games was debated, as I advocated the personal interpretation that these areas belonged to an alternate dimension, which I had read on the Silent Hill Wiki, a site crammed with speculation and original research, which refers to this supposed dimension as the "Fog World". No official source by Konami or any of the developers of the series confirms that the foggy part of the game is an alternate dimension, so I finally removed this original research from Wikipedia articles related to the series. I hope I illuminated the situation here. Thank you. Hula Hup (talk) 16:52, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi, BobtheVila! I'm a little confused about what you are concerned about regarding The Book of Lost Memories. Do you think the information in this article has been misunderstood, or do you not agree with Lost Memories as a source at all? If you think that it has been misunderstood, please do correct it. If you disagree with Lost Memories as a source, well, I'm sorry, but it is an official source. I understand that this is of concern to you.
Would you mind either reposting your alterations on this talkpage (I'm not exactly sure which alterations you're alluding to) or posting on this talkpage what you think would be a suitable replacement? Perhaps there could be a footnote of some sort? Or something like "According to the original developers, YYYYY.[cited interview(s)] The official SH guidebook, Lost Memories, states ZZZZZ." Would that be alright? Just keep in mind that everything has to be sourced by reliable, published sources (if you need help identifying those, please let me know; there is an reliable source list compiled by the video game project for interviews). The source you posted above is a user blog on Wikia, and user-published material is generally not reliable, unless you can prove that the user was a member of Team Silent. I'm sorry about that.
Hula Hup, if it's not too much trouble, is there any published RSs that explicitly refer to it as a multiverse? I can't remember coming across that term, but then again, I keep finding new interviews for SH2 frequently, so... Rapunzel-bellflower (talk) 23:15, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
I didn't find this term in any source, I had just considered it representative of the series' setting. Here's Merriam-Webster's entry. What exactly do you find incorrect in the explanation? Is it the word "hypothetical"? Hula Hup (talk) 20:36, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

I thank you for the update HulaHoop.
Still, it should go down something like this: Silent Hill is set in an eponymous fictitious American town consisting of an ancient essense which dates as far back as the natives...
Rough draft, but you get the point. It should instead talk about the power of the town and how it can reflect what those have inside their unconscious minds, not something that wasn't even touched upon officially. Its like typing: "oh, well there's this multiverse thing and...". Get it now?
The page should be based upon only the official Japanese information and their wording. TS, like these books, had awlays given more a vague wording to their answers. Thus, this isn't the same as having a plot spilled out in a plot section on wikipedia. It isn't simply another wording for the same thing, either. The theme was of "fear of the unknown" and was always to be left vague for the real answer, even using intended inconsistancies to keep the gamer mistified.

The proof of multiverse being the wrong terminology? Well, for starters, there's only the otherworld. Its not part of an even bigger picture. It isn't reality as in "reality as we know it", but more reality as in reality. This is not an argument over whether the otherworld is another world, but a false placement on what type of world it is (e.g. material versus immaterial or pure thought with perscieved embodiment). It isn't the same. A mental world you could yet still vanish off into [for reasons of being absorbed, compressed and uncompressed to be spat out unfatally] isn't to be confused with "the slots/planes or universes of material reality".

1. Jeremy Blaustein, who translated the games and helped with story ideas in SH2 and on, twittered on his page that the Japanese characters Team Silent uses for the world everything crazy happens in can be interpreted as "Otherworld/Dream world" under the context used in.
I doubt he's a fake, as the real Jeremy would've spoken out against the fake account by now with all the attention its gotten from Twin Perfect/other (TP has gotten BIG time higher ups at Konami to respond to them before). Jeremy states that the best justice is given to the otherworld by the game's more poetic execution.

2. The Q and A on an official konami guide, released only in Japan in 1999, specifies this:
"Q: Why is contact between the town and the outside world completely cut off?
A: Unknown! The line between dream and reality is indistinct."
2.1 Additionally, it said:
"From the moment Harry wakes up, the town is already deserted. What specifically happened is not made clear until the end-- the only thing that is certain is that this is not an ordinary situation. While it is only natural to wonder about the welfare of the people who originally lived in Silent Hill, one should be able to come up with a few explanations after completing the game: everyone died, or what happens in the nightmare world has no effect on reality, or it was all Harry's dream, etc. Of these, the most likely explanation is that the events took place in the world of Alessa's nightmares."
2.2 Q: When did Cheryl and Alessa unite?
A: During the early stages of the story.
Although the exact moment isn't specified, there's no mistaking that it was during the story's early stages. Cheryl's disappearance into the alleyway during the opening came about because Alessa's nightmare had encroached into Harry's dream; that development is not specifically related to Cheryl's fusion with Alessa......*
(* The above explains that the allyway scene didn't really occur as the rest of the game does, which is why Harry didn't GAME OVER here when "dying".)
2.3 "Q: Why does the town suddenly become dark?
A: Even in the nightmare world, there is a cycle.
It becomes night (?) on a number of occasions as Harry moves about the town. In the same way, there are also many times when aspects of the town and its buildings change completely. For the sake of convenience, this will be referred to as the "right side" and "reverse side" in this book. These changes occur because there is a cycle in the world of Alessa's nightmares which envelops the town. In the same way that a person normally repeats REM sleep and non-REM sleep in regular cycles while he or she is sleeping, when the nightmare world approaches a deeper darkness (sleep), a phenomenon occurs in which light is almost completely taken away and the world shifts into an even deeper nightmare as the cycle shifts again. As for the "right side" and the "reverse side," in short, it isn't that one is reality and one is a dream; the fact is that neither is reality. Incidentally, the reason the "reverse side" takes on such an ominous aspect is that with her burned body, Alessa's endless nightmares were twisted and amplified by thoughts of the malevolent god. Her hatred and terror became nourishment on which the malevolent deity thrived."

3. The Book of lost Memories clears this up even further: "It would seem that in the otherworld, time and physical limitations are transcended and peoples' thoughts are communicated"
3.1 "Does the real world influence the otherworld born of delusions and the power of the town?"
3.2 Creator comments in the same book keep coming down to the same thing: "...The power that absorbs and reflects what people hold in their hearts is established as being exclusive to the town of Silent Hill."

This all implies that the otherworld/dreamworld is, like the Nightmare on Elm Street dream realm, a conscious yet immaterial realm of thought with perceived embodiment. Dark or disturbed individuals simply have already vanished from reality off into this second version of the town, this world of delusion that starts off empty and foggy. There isn't any physical limits or time here. It only half exists as pure will. Its not a multiverse in that it takes you to other personalized worlds, but a realm between reality and unreality. BobtheVila (talk)

TS didn't create purely scientific, distinctive logic to what’s going on in town. This is evident by Jeremy Blaustein’s twitter comments on there being no definitive answer. Jeremy himself was part of the creative team by SH2, and helped with making ideas for the game. The page must be changed to meet this fact and be based on the descriptions of TS themselves, that "the power absorbs and reflects what people hold in their hearts". — Preceding unsigned comment added by BobtheVila (talkcontribs) 21:02, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Here’s what IS certain through Ito's and Blaustein's words: Reality is existing reality, your's truly (saying 'real' world isn't to say 'our' world). The line between dream and reality is blurred, not, there are easily many realities and ours is merely of one. This is the meat of what Ito was saying on his own twitter page ("...exist at same dimension."). He means that the otherworld wasn’t easily a long standing constant like in religion or science fiction. The same is implied in TS’s comments in TBoLM, other parts of TBoLM on the otherworld and the 1999 Q&A. As easily as there is monster class delusions are there environmental ones, no more. The town simply allows these delusions to be interactive as if real, for people to disappear off into these said delusions, hence the other name, Dream World (TBoLM: “…doors on the floor is evidence that the world James sees is not REALITY”). Nowhere is, for instance, a realm in itself which was made from memories (resource: 2003 TBoLM). Like the monsters, without someone’s mind or imagination, they don’t exist in any perceived manner. This prints no room to theorize. When something is meant to be this indistinct, theories instantly become further elaborations which change the focus altogether. As stated on this wiki for SH, meaning was meant to be reflected upon. This is more a conclusion, not a reflection. BobtheVila (talk)

Hello everyone. I have noticed that this has been a reoccurring controversy across multiple Silent Hill talk pages. So to prevent future "edit wars" and/or tiresome debates, I propose a new unbiased and neutral plot description is crafted for each Silent Hill related article. Current plot descriptions reveal a "multiverse" and/or alternate dimensions behind the events of Silent Hill. But, like it has been shown, not all official sources point to this explanation; among other numerous quotes (published and non-published) from the original creative team (Team Silent) describing otherwise. Therefore I think it is appropriate to remove these terms in order to form a proper neutral description. Revised versions will not feature an alternative, only what is necessary; at least for the time being. Can this be agreed upon? Taylor the Impaler (talk) 04:50, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
Hello, I am coming from another multiverse dispute at [13]. I am in agreement with BobtheVila and Taylor the Impaler. The usage of the terms "multiverse" and "alternate dimensions" have been sufficiently cast into serious doubt, thus WP:NOR. The nature of the Otherworld is ambiguous with in-game evidence, and the applications of terms such as "multiverse" or "alternate dimensions" can only be speculation. Furthermore, the words "multiverse" or "alternate dimensions" are never once found in-game, or in any official Konami source regarding SH 1-4. The onus is on the user to cite a satisfactory citation supporting the phrasing. But in the meantime, the omission of words such as "multiverse" or "alternate dimensions" should be implemented to maintain wikipedia standards of neutrality. Prinn (talk) 18:37, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
I have to agree with Prinn on the lack of "multiverse" or alternate dimensions" for the first four games of the main series. This could be disputed for the remainder of the games, as they were created by different developer teams and could suggest that in at least those installments that there maybe another dimension or universe. With that said, I want to stress that it may not be wise to assume that they retroactively changed the meaning or artistic design of the prior installments. I only say that because of extremely heated debates taking place concerning the series and the possibility of die-hard believers editing articles to suggest something that doesn't involve reliable sources. Lackingnovelist (talk) 05:39, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Thank you Lackingnovelist for your agreement. It seems more and more users support this change and promote a renewal. Prinn and I have addressed this topic in another talk page [14], but the discussion had turned cold, and no action was taken. But since no other objections have arisen for some time now, the changes requested will be put forth. Any descriptions mentioning a "multiverse" or "alternate dimension(s)" will be removed and replaced with an appropriate, fair revision. I will allow approximately one week for any objections to be made. If nothing is heard, I will assume that we are all in agreement and commence the editing. Thank you everyone who has contributed to this discussion and I hope we have all reached a consensus. Taylor the Impaler (talk) 21:25, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Heather Mason[edit]

Just created, I left many online sources on the talk page. --Niemti (talk) 17:01, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

SH: The Arcade[edit]

"The game PC version was released online in March 2014." Does anyone have a source for this? I did a brief search and I can't find anything. Rapunzel-bellflower (talk) 17:37, 9 April 2014 (UTC)