Talk:Simon Bolivar Buckner

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GA?[edit]

This is a really nice article, why not nominate it for good article review? Hekerui (talk) 14:07, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind comments. The article is presently undergoing a peer review by WP:MILHIST. I plan on taking it straight from there to WP:FAC. I only have the Borderland Knight biography on interlibrary loan through September 16, so I want to get it to FA soon. Acdixon (talk contribs count) 14:14, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Lead[edit]

One of the most interesting (to me) facts in the article was that Buckner was both the first and last Confederate general to surrender. I think this would make a wonderful addition to the first paragraph of the lead, but I'll leave that for the regular editors to decide. Karanacs (talk) 20:35, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Good suggestion. Done. Acdixon (talk contribs count) 18:30, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Letter[edit]

Civil War records show an interesting letter dated 30 May 1865, addressed to Lieutenant Colonel C. T. Christensen, Assistant Adjutant General, Military Division of West Mississippi, from Frank N. Wicker, Lieutenant Signnal Corps, US Army, regarding the activities of General Simon Volivar Buckner, while exiled to Louisiana, as follows. (I have broken the letter down into smaller paragraphs for easier reading and analysis.)

"Colonel: I have the honor to submit to your consideration the following report of information received at this office this 30th day of May 1865:
Mr. B. W. MUSGROVE, a citizen of Wood County, Northern Texas, reports as follows:
'Left home in Wood County, Northern Texas, three weeks since in route for New Orleans; arrived at Shreveport, and was unable to proceed further, being detailed by General Buckner. During the time he remained at Shreveport (two weeks), he discovered that large amounts of Confederate Government cotton and suger were being moved into the interior and secreted for the purpose of defauding the United States Government. He further reports that General Buckner and brother, controlled all cotton transactions in Trans-Mississippi Department; and, that they were actively engaged in transferring the cotton, sugar, and government property generally into the hands of private individuals, and placing it where the Federal Goverment could not find it.
He asserts that it is his believ that General Buckner and other Confederate Officers have joined hands for the purpose of defrauding the Federal Government out of large amounts of cotton, sugar, and all kinds of Confederate Government property, including large amounts of specie which was reported to have been frought from France for the puspose of being distributed among the triips in the Trans-Mississippi Department. All the property thus transferred to merchants and citizens had been paid for by the Confederate Government.
Other large amounts of cotton, sugar, and Government property generally is being moved to Mexico, where it will be claimed by private parties.
Large amounts of cotton, sugar and Government property generally is being moved to Mexico, where it will be claimed by private parties.
Large amounts of cotton and sugar have been placed on steam-boats and run down Red River to points where it can be secreted until our troops moveup and take possession of the country above it, when it will be brought to New Orleans and sold on private account. The Government property at Shreveport was taken in charge by the officers on the 22d, with a view to cover up the frauds they were and had been committing, but in this they failed.
The Missouri triios, the only organized force at Shreveport, believing it would be charged to them, surrounded the city and took charge of the goods, and were guarding them on the 23d instant.
About the 21st instant, General Buckner made a speech to the Missouri troops four miles west of Shreveport, and urged them to accompany him to Mexico and colonize South America, or some other country; that they (the Confederates) had a large amount of Government property to transpport overland to Mexico; and, that if they would accompany him, he would in a short time pay them a good round sum in specie.
The troops considered this proposition of General Buckner, and on the following morning selected Colonel Gains to address the emmasse. The Colonel informed them that the distance to be traveled overland was 700 miles, and through a desert country, which was more than they would endure.
Upon this they signified their intention of surrending to the Federal authorities, and they alone should receive their arms. The men then made free to say that they would take General Buckner and deliver him with them if the officers selected to surrender them would say the word.
About this time, General Price and Buckner were seen moving down the river for New Orleans. It is believed that General Smith will carry out the same fradulent schemes in the neighborhood of Houston, Texas. It is furthermore believed that General Buckner has destroyed, or caused to be destroyed, all papers pertaining to the Trans-Mississippi Department.
There are many large and valuable foundies and manufactories in Texas which belong to the Confederate Government, among which are as follows:
Marion County Iron Works
Davis County Iron Works
Anderson County Iron Works
Anderson County Cotton and Woolen Factory, and
Upshur County Factory
And, or any part of which General Buckner and Quartermasters are willing to see for specie.
Mr. Musgrove visits New Orleans for the purpose of purchasing reaper and mower blaces, scythe blades, files, and a general supply of farming implements. His objective is to make some arrangement whereby the people of Texas can save their present growing crops.
The report of Mr. Musgrove is confirmed by W. G. Felto and W. Chandler, scouts employed by Lieutenant Colonel Chandler, Seventh Missouri Cavalry, at Little Rock. They were captured near Benton, Arkansas, September 28, 1864, and taken to Shreveport and paroled, arriving at New Orleans a few days since. They report large trains loaded with Government property running toward Mexico. All the steamboats above Shreveport are loaded with cotton and sugar and are in charge of officers, steamboat men, and speculators, who propose running them out on private account. Two thoucahd bales of cotton are lying at a point thirth miles below Shreveport, which citizens are attempting to claim.
George McGee, a citizen residing ten miles below Shreport

(I am missing a sentence in the last paragraph which I had garbled from my first typing) ... gave any information necessary in regard to this thieving operation. He is at present watching the disposition made of Government property iand its place of concealment. They report that large amounts of rope and agging are being sold to citizens at $1 per coil. Missouri tropps are guarding what property there is left at Shreveport, and will not allow Confederate officers to touch it.

I have the nonor to be, very respectfully, your obedient servant.
FRANK N. WICKER
Lieutenant, Signal Corps, U.S. Army
(In the absence of S. M. Eaton, Chief Signal Officer)"


Bushrod William Musgrove, originally from Jasper, Walker County, Alabama, who moved to Louisiana, then to Titus Co., Texas, where he served as a Post Master for a year; then moved to Wood County, Texas, but had a general dry goods store in nearby Surphur Springs, Hopkins Co., Tx. Hopkins County, Texas, had a large gang of outlaws controlling and abusing the country side, recruiting young men to resisist the occupation of Texas by the United States Government. Musgrove blamed their activities on General Buckner. In 1868, the same year General Buckner returned to Kentucky, Bushrod William Musgrove was murdered, with his body sewed up in a sack and thrown in a cyprus swamp in Jefferson County, Texas.

It is said General Simon Bolivar Buckner went back to Kentucky a very wealthy man.

Ann S. Grainger anngrainger@knology.net —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.73.233.229 (talk) 05:01, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

An update on Beyond the Southern Storm[edit]

I received the Russell biography of Buckner this week, and while I can't assess its overall accuracy and scholarship, I will say the following about it:

  1. The author Stephen Russell doesn't seem to claim any special relevant education or experience in the field
  2. The work doesn't claim any special new sources other than access to one member of the Buckner family, one Buckner re-enactor, one librarian, and one former Kentucky governor
  3. The work lacks an index, footnotes or endnotes, making the job of assessing its overall accuracy and scholarship extremely difficult
  4. The work adopts a fictional narrative style "to supplement the sometimes-sparse historical record, embellish descriptions, and bring the drama of this man's journey to life... This narrative follows one interpretation of these events. I encourage all readers to explore the events described in detail to form your own opinions. A bibliography of recommended readings in the back will help you." (from introduction)

IMHO, I wouldn't choose to use this book as a source if I were writing a college-level paper, though I might get away with it if I were a high-schooler. It doesn't meet the WP:RS standard as an historical secondary source. It is not the "more analytical work" desired by the 1940 reviewer of Stickles' work. BusterD (talk) 15:39, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the update, BusterD. Acdixon (talk contribs count) 16:12, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

"Lieutenant" parameter looks funny[edit]

I'm sure somewhere there is a policy against multiple boxes. So we have a "governor" box, with Buckner's picture as a general. The parameter "lieutenant" now looks funny in the context of a military picture. I would suggest, if possible, switching pic to one in civilian clothes. Alternately, "they" should change the parameter to "Lieutenant-governor" which I have suggested in the template discussion. I doubt they will do that, though. Student7 (talk) 17:57, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

mine[edit]

Thats my home state — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smaymaster (talkcontribs) 10:37, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Last Confederate General to Surrender?[edit]

Article says he was the last Confederate general to surrender, then goes on to say that Stand Watie surrendered a month later. Clearly Watie was the last Confederate general to surrender, not Buckner. I am making the change. 138.162.128.52 (talk) 12:57, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

source problem[edit]

footnotes 49: Cozzens, Shipwreck of Their Hopes, p. 24;

What's this standing for? There's no booking list below has this title.--Jarodalien (talk) 12:39, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Did some research and found that the sentence was originally only cited to Hewitt. Hlj (talk · contribs) added the additional sources as part of a massive edit here on September 24, 2009 while the article was at WP:FAC. I'm sure leaving the full citation out of the bibliography was just an oversight – an easy one to make given the volume of information the user was adding in one edit. This user still appears to be quite active. I'll leave this here to see if he/she sees the ping: @Hlj: Acdixon (talk · contribs) 15:17, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
There were two books by Cozzens that are cited, but one of them was somehow omitted from the References section. Fixed (although I do not use the cumbersome 'cite book' template that some others do). Thanks for pointing out the five-year-old error. Hal Jespersen (talk) 16:46, 11 June 2014 (UTC)