Talk:Smells Like Teen Spirit

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A class[edit]

Something can only be a-class if its a better than average GA. Andman8 22:19, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Influences[edit]

Somebody should add that Cobain has used the riffs of Pixies' "U-Mass" for "Smells Like Teen Spirit" - it really sounds the same - which is a bit disappointing, I must say - but though a VERY important information... (Unfortunately, there is no official source - but just listen) -- EagleSGE 23:39, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

You obvisouly know nothing about music if you believe that they are the same cords.

      • Both of you above, please note that SLTS was released before the album w/ U-Mass on it! and kurt himself said pixies were primary influence on him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chang en craig (talkcontribs) 17:28, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


So, I enjoy music. I'll listen to any genre of music. The other day I was channel surfing on XM when I came upon the 40s channel. The song that was playing at that moment sounded alot like "Smells Like Teen Spirit", and when the vocalist began to sing, the chorus was nearly word for word. At that moment, the XM signal was weak, and it was not displaying the song title/artist (just my luck). Since then I've been wondering: what was that song? Also I'm assuming it was an influence for Nirvana (for this song).

If anyone knows what song I'm talking about, it would be greatly appreciated.

Tluckie13 (talk) 00:22, 28 November 2007 (UTC)tluckie13

It was probably from the Paul Anka album Rock Swings, which is, as the name implies, a compilation of popular rock songs re-made in a "swing" style. 76.30.108.183 (talk) 16:58, 26 May 2008 (UTC) I have to say, I think that Eagle SGE is partially incorrect. In my opinion, the closest comparison in riffs can be drawn between it and "Wild Thing" by The Troggs.98.246.84.7 (talk) 20:03, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Naming[edit]

Since when was "Nirvana" part of the name of this song? Is there an ambiguity issue that needs to be resolved? --maveric149

You are thinking of the Weird Al parody, "Smells Like Nirvana" CoolKatt number 99999
There is no ambiguity with "Smells," but there is with other song titles. I'm simply being consistent in my naming. How would you propose we distinguish Three Dog Night's "Joy to the World" from George Frederic Handel's "Joy to the World"? --the Epopt
That really is a disambiguation issue with those two songs, not with teen spirit. --maveric149
Okay, you win. Remove the possessive at will. --the Epopt

i love nirvana[edit]

i like love nirvana so much but i can't find n e thin bout themm for this frnch project that were doing in school

This is not a forum for discussion of Nirvana and it is not a place for the asking of questions. Also, you need to sign your posts with ~~~~ ''I Am The Master Of All Thunder'' (talk) 13:31, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

structure?[edit]

It seems to me that there's too much stuff before the article has headers. I would like to split up that beginning section some more (without removing any information, of course), but I'm going to wait a few days for suggestions/objections before I do it. --Jacquelyn Marie 04:06, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree - does the verse chorus structure and the four chord loud soft dynamic really belong in the header to the article? It's such a generic description of the song, and does nothing to explain why the song is significant enough to merit an encyclopedic article. Kaiguy 23:34, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it belongs. We need to properly summarize the article, and the structure and dynamics of the song have been much commented upon and have been very influential. WesleyDodds 01:20, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Grunge, not Rock!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.254.44.233 (talk) 10:06, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

AWWWWWWWW[edit]

I shouldn't have read this article. I always thought "teen spirit" meant "semen", as "spirit" is the literary term for that substance, and hence invoked vitality...especially teenage vitality and wildness ...but a brand of deodorant?? Aw crap, I'll never hear the song the same again...--DanielCD 19:53, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

To be fair, Kurt himself misunderstood what the phrase "Kurt smells like Teen Spirit" was supposed to mean. When he titled the song, he was using the phrase "teen spirit" to represent the grunge "revolution" in Seattle. Jeff Silvers 02:36, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Nobody ever seems to remember this for some reason, but it wasn't just the brand name, but the ENTIRE NAME OF THE SONG that came from the deoderant. This story about Kurt's girlfriend wearing it or whatever sounds unlikely to me. IN FACT: back in the late 80's or so when 'Teen Spirit' deoderant first came out (and also, I think, disappeared again) they had a string of really annoying commercials on TV, the tag line of which was "Smells like teen spirit" -- verbatim. I can't remember it exactly, but one person in the ad would say "Smells like...[something]", and the other would respond, "Smells like teen spirit!". So there you go. Much as I like this song, the title's a tag line for a deoderant, and the chords are straight outta the Pixies' "U-Mass".
I think Kurt is quoted as saying that's where the song name came from. I believe it was the Rolling Stone interview?
By the way, "U-Mass" was released after "Teen Spirit", in October 1991. WesleyDodds 06:30, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, right you are. Hard to believe it really was a coincidence, though: they're SO similar in harmonic structure, phrasing, tempo...weird.

Well, seeing as "U-Mass" was released after "Teen Spirit" may they are the copiers. That seems slightly more logical. 64.50.228.36 20:08, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Misheard Lyrics[edit]

I just thought I'd point out the some of the lyrics printed inside the Lithium single were incorrect.


The Lyrics in the Lithium single were correct. The lyric "our little tribe" is what I assume you are talking about. The version on Nevermind is sung incorrectly. If you listen to any bootleg copies of the song, on live proformences such as the one on "From the muddy banks of the Wishkah", or even the original mix by Butch Vig. The lyrics are sung and "our little tribe".

Nirvana used to change their lyrics all the time. Kurt would sing one thing on a recording but slightly change it when singing live. So the lyrics in the Lithium single are sort of correct.

  • Are we not allowed to put the lyrics in or something? Somebody just deleted them. vLaDsINgEr 01:05, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Diamond Dallas Page[edit]

Does anybody know if this was DDP's entrance music in WCW? I seem to vaguely remember the intro, but I'm not sure. Also, if it was, do you think that should be included in the article as some kind of trivia? Fitz221 23:51, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

His song was heavily based on SLTS (and may've been a remix). In WCW Mayhem, the song's title is given as "Self High-Five." Jeff Silvers 19:41, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
WCW didn't have as much money as the WWF did at the time (for theme music anyway, because they were spending all the cash on guys like Hogan and Nash) so they never used any real themes--DDP's theme was simply an instrumental slight modification of the song that was very much based on SLTS. It's exactly the same as how Raven's theme was Come As You Are (but slowed down and with two Skynard riffs added overtop for variety in later parts).

Origin of name[edit]

I'd like to see some reliable sources verifying the Origin of Name section. The story seems consistent, as well as its writing, but let's just say it may sound fishy to some. For that matter, I'm adding a {{fact}} tag at the end of the paragraph. --ViruValge 20:16, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe it was a reference to the fact they wore that brand of deodorant, but rather that Kurt wore none at all, I'm pretty sure this fact is alluded too (possibly by Kurt himself) in Come As You Are: The Story of Nirvana by Michael Azerrad, but I read it about 10 years ago so I'm not so sure. Klown 13:55, July 25, 2006 (UTC)



The name of the song "Smells Like Teen Spirit". Does come from the deodorant. Krist Novoselics girlfriend had spray painted "Kurt smells like teen spirit" on his home wall. She was definatly refering to the the deodorant.

Citation for anthem statement[edit]

Obviously citations are good, but this is really just common sense. 203.45.10.31 05:20, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

More than a feeling[edit]

Teen spirit does not have "more than a passing similarity" to More Than A Feeling; maybe the poster confused Teen Spirit with Holy Grail, but as it is these two songs do not even share musical sonority. Satchfan 09:56, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

What song did Nirvana do a non-too-serious rendition of before launching into Teen Spirit at the Reading Festival, as heard on Live at Reading? More Than A Feeling.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 19:15, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

The key of the song[edit]

I see I've been challenged on the question of what key 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' is in. I said it was in F#. Me2Nik claims it's in F.

Me2Nik is right, in that according to my digital tuner the song is in F. However, F is a very awkward key to play this song in. The song is far easier to play in F# on a guitar that's been tuned a semitone below concert pitch. Moreover, other Nirvana songs show evidence of having been recorded on guitars tuned down a semitone; 'Rape Me', played on a guitar tuned to concert pitch, is in A flat, 'All Apologies' on the same guitar is in C#. Both songs sounds far more natural (and are way easier to play) played on a semitone-detuned guitar in the keys of A and D respectively. (Admittedly one is actually playing in A flat and C sharp, but both songs rely on the characteristic sonority of the traditional A minor and D major open chords.) Either Cobain used a capo or he habitually tuned his guitars down a semitone in the manner of Jimi Hendrix, a practice which has become commonplace with nu-metal bands.

Maybe Nirvana fans can confirm whether or not Kurt detuned his guitars a semitone. All I can say is, I have to detune my guitars to play along with Nirvana. And I tune to concert pitch. So I was wrong to say that the song is in F# - but Me2Nik should point out that Cobain may have detuned his guitars.

Incidentally, I submit that a powerchord is simply a chord struck at full volume on a distorted guitar. It doesn't have to be any sort of chord in particular. The end of Starless by King Crimson features G minor power chords. The Art Bears song In Two Minds has powerchords that are essentially 9ths.

Lexo 23:17 18 August, 2006 (UTC)

SLTS was recorded in standard pitch. It has to be, because of Cobain's employ of open strings strummed during the riff that wouldn't sound the same when tuned down. A few songs from Nevermind ("Come As You Are", "Lithium") were tuned down a whole step, but the album is predominantly in standard pitch. Everything on In Utero is tuned down a half-step, with some songs also employing a drop-D tuning.
By the way, a "power chord" specifically means a root-fifth chord. WesleyDodds 11:05, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
"By the way, a "power chord" specifically means a root-fifth chord." The C major chord displayed here [2] is not a root-fifth chord. Lexo 15:06, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
It seems that's more the name of the site rather than an attempt to define "power chord". If you notice, major, minor, and diminished chords are listed. WesleyDodds 15:27, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, a power chord is not simply a chord struck at full volume on an electric guitar, it is a root-fifth chord (though I've been told that it must go root, fifth, root to be a true power chord. There are power chords on the piano, too.Kaiguy 23:38, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

This song is NOT in a minor key, if the site is going to imply whether it's minor or major based on the fifth or suspended chords it should be implied as major. There are several reasons why, try singing the songs using major chords, then using minor chords, it's clear that the major chords sound more authentic in feel to the song's style and Nirvana's style. Playing the chords as minor, or implying that the chords are minor, just sounds off, and it is off. Not to mention that the vocal melody includes notes that are in the implied major chords. Making performing the song with minor chords extremely awkward, and would compel a singer to change the vocal melody.

It is a minor key, and all available references list it as such (including the transcription book). The chords themseelves are suspended voicings, so they are neither major nor minor, but the progression is a minor chord progression. WesleyDodds (talk) 09:00, 20 December 2007 (UTC)


It should be noted the bridge isn't really in F minor, with those F# and E chords and the B natural in the melody. F acts more like an anchor note. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.219.140 (talk) 17:51, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

How is Smells Like Teen Spirit not in F? The official Hal Leonard sheet music transcribes the entire song in F minor. Even if the instruments weren't perfectly in tune, from the opening chords to the outro feedback, the song uses notes from the F minor scale. Granted, the bridges include some chromatic notes that don't follow the scale entirely, but how is that enough to change the key of a whole song that is otherwise clearly built around F minor? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Starscreech (talkcontribs) 10:11, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

it is pretty clear the song is in f minor. chords that "sound more authentic in feel" does not determine a key to a song, that is subjective. it is in f minor because of the notes used in the song. also, having dissonance or chromatic notes doesn't change the key or make it have no key. the bridge is a chromatic riff, it goes down and up half steps mostly, then goes to A sharp and back to a chord on the f minor scale. for people who don't know theory, it's a simple and common idea that lots of musicians use. in the context of this song, you wouldn't say the bridge is in a different key, because it is a short deviation from the main riff of the song. and the song is in standard tuning, if you play a f note it sounds the same as the first chord of the song. i know how to play it and it is pretty practical, there is some open string notes in the song for example that are played in between power chords up the fret. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:8:BA80:5E5:35CB:ED79:8C79:23C0 (talk) 11:38, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

I was wrong[edit]

On reflection, I don't think my contributions to this article or this discussion have been worth the time it's taken to make them (I don't even like the damn song), so I withdraw 'em, and if nobody objects I'll go through the article picking them out where I can determine that they were genuinely mine. Oh, except for the Dave Marsh bit. That was the only bit of hard info I contributed. Sorry. Lexo 15:02, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Parody?[edit]

The text of the article implies (unsourced) that the Red Hot Chili Peppers parodied this Nirvana video for their Dani California video... I just watched it (Dani California) on YouTube and DID observed a parody of the /Nirvana Unplugged/ event ...but nothing related to the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" video...

Yeah, they didn't even play "Smells Like Teen Spirit" at the Unplugged concert. Nevermind the fact that even if they did, it wouldn't be referring to the actual "Smells Like Teen Spirit" music video. Fixed.
The Dani California video is reminiscent of the video for In Bloom.
I believe the Dani California video is just a 'style parody' of Nirvana in general.

Cover by Type O Negative[edit]

On this article, it says that Type O Negative has covered "Smells Like Teen Spirit":

"The song has been covered by numerous artists, including Tori Amos on the Crucify EP, the jazz band The Bad Plus, Pearl Jam, Type O Negative, and the industrial act Xorcist." Section "Cover Versions".

However this is incorrect. A version of the song appeared on internet, and was incorrectly attributed to Type O Negative. On the Type O Negative article (Section "Trivia", "Covers"), the misunderstanding is stated:

"Incorrectly attributed covers include: Sarah McLachlan's "Possession"; Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit"; and Britney Spears' "Hit Me Baby One More Time"."

The recording in question is actually a live version of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" played by Nirvana at Top Of The Pops:

"4 - Smells Like Teen Spirit Gothic Version - Top Of The Pops - Kurt sings the vocals to the bands smash hit "Smells Like Teen Spirit" with a DEEP, SLOOOOOOOOOOOW voice. This has been dubbed the "Gothic" version. The band pretends to play ( puposely doing a poor job miming song) to the recording that is being played in the background. It's funny the first time you hear it, but not worth repeated listening."

(Source: http://www.livenirvana.com/bootography/review3378.html?filename=outcesticideiv -- This source is also used for the Outcesticide article on wikipedia. This page is about the 4th release of the Outcesticide series of Nirvana bootleg CD's.)

Other places on wikipedia talk about this recording, but I just can't find them. So this is the reason why I will take off the part about how Type O Negative made a "Smells Like Teen Spirit" cover.

--Zouavman Le Zouave 18:29, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Video shoot location[edit]

The article currently says the video was shot at Fairfax High School, but Come As You Are says it was shot on a soundstage in Culver City. Unless someone can corraborate that it was indeed a real high school and Fairfax in particular, I'll have to change it. WesleyDodds 08:46, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

(WesleyDodds - I was an extra in the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" video, and I can confirm that it was shot in a soundstage in Culver City, and not Fairfax High. Also, the Weird Al parody video was shot on the same soundstage, using many of the same extras, including myself. Interestingly, L7 were in the soundstage next door shooting the video for "Pretend We're Dead")

Single formats[edit]

Does anyone want to take care of putting the "Formats and tracklistings" into order, akin to how "This Charming Man" or "The Beautiful People" are arranged? Knowing the nuances of Nirvana's singles discography isn't really my forte. WesleyDodds 13:25, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

GA nomination[edit]

at first glance, there should be more images.. i.e. a frame of the music video. (i have a few frames in mind that would do!). Mlm42 13:33, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

If you can upload a fair use image from the video for the "Music video" section that would be great. WesleyDodds 14:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
i think any low resolution screenshot is fine, under {{Musicpromo-screenshot}}. Mlm42 15:24, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

GA passing[edit]

An awesome article for an awesome song, not much more I can say than that. Good job everyone

†he Bread 03:46, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Formats and track listing[edit]

Is that really necessary on this page ? There are probably over 50 different releases of the single you would need to list to do that properly.

Yes, it is. I tried to keep it to commcercial releases that were released on Geffen. WesleyDodds 18:20, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Do you know anything about what you are talking about ? There wern't any copies that were not released on Geffen. 18:07, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
In other countries, other companies are sometimes responsible for record distribution. WesleyDodds 17:55, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Accolades[edit]

Its really ashame that these had to go:

  • Melody Maker magazine Single of The Year #1 (1991)
  • Rolling Stone Critics Singles Pick #2 (1991)
  • Kerrang! magazine Greatest 100 Rock Tracks Ever #1 (1999)
  • Kerrang! magazine Greatest Singles of All Time #1 (2002)
  • List of Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Songs of All Time #9 (2002)
  • In 2002 NME magazine ranked the song number two on its list of "100 Greatest Singles of All Time."[1]
  • In 2003, VH1 placed "Smells Like Teen Spirit" at number one on its list of "100 Greatest Songs of the Past 25 Years."[2]
  • The song also ranked third in a Q Magazine poll that year.[3]
  • VH1's 100 Greatest Songs from the Past 25 Years #1 (2003)
  • Q magazine 100 Greatest Guitar Tracks Ever #4 (2005)
  • Australian count down show '20 to 1; Greatest Songs Ever' #17 (2006)
  • Q Magazine Top 20 best pop songs of the last twenty years #1 (2006)
It's just a list, and an incomplete one at that. It's better to put the informaiton in prose and in an appropriate context. Not to mention with citations. WesleyDodds 10:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "NME's 100 Greatest Singles of All Time Unveiled" (HTTP). nme.com. 2002. Retrieved October 22.  Unknown parameter |accessyear= ignored (help); Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)
  2. ^ ""VH1's 100 Greatest Songs"" (HTTP). cbsnews.com. 2003. Retrieved October 19.  Unknown parameter |accessyear= ignored (help); Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)
  3. ^ "U2's One named 'greatest record'" (HTTP). bbc.co.uk. 2003. Retrieved October 22.  Unknown parameter |accessyear= ignored (help); Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)

Religious Interpretations[edit]

Just a suggestion to the editor on the idea, as expressed in this article, that a specific rock song/track could be used by a deity or spirit for announcing something important to the world. You might or might not want to include this information, as it is tangental but interesting. The Beatles were mentioned in the article as having been accused of making anti-religious statements but one interesting fact not mentioned is that Charles Manson, the notorious leader of the Manson family that murdered actress Sharon Tate and others, claimed that the Beatles were the four angels mentioned in the book of Revelations, which are supposed to announce the beginning of the events which will lead to the final struggle between good and evil, resulting in the apocalypse. Manson specifically referred to the Beatles 'white album' and the track Revolution #9 as the announcement itself, that the end times were about to start. He also claimed that it was 'revealed' to him that his part in the final judgement was to start a race war that would more or less get things going by the murders he and his followers committed, which he hoped would be blamed on black people. So the idea that Smells Like Teen Spirit is an announcement by a supernatural force of the coming end times and final judgement(whether by God, Satan, angels or whatever) is also not new. 65.171.135.50 22:27, 1 December 2006 (UTC) TKP

Pixies Similarities?[edit]

I'm a big Pixeis fan and the song "U-Mass" from their album Trompe le Monde has a similar riff to the main Smells Like Teen Spirit riff. Right at the time their singer yells "It's Educational!" in the song you can hear the riff. Think it should be mentioned considering that Cobain was a huge Pixies fan and that it came out a few months before this song?

No, because comparions in print are often made simply with the Pixies sound in general. Plus most would consider the "U-Mass" similarities a coincidence due to their close release dates. WesleyDodds 10:19, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Religious interpretation of lyrics[edit]

Someone put a bunch of stuff about how the lyrics could be interpreted as Satanic here; I removed it as it contained no sources and seemed to be original research. Comments? Veinor (ヴエノル(talk)) 17:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, I keep removing it. It's nonsense and original research. CloudNine 17:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Page is a Mess[edit]

This page is a complete mess. Its full of rubbish and garbled infomation. Tracklistings for every country ? Pointless when you can find an online discography, less than half have been listed here anyway. Endless paragraphs of needless infomation too. 195.137.109.177 15:18, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Explain the "rubbish" and "garbled information". WesleyDodds 06:29, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

The music sample box overlaps some of the text. I don't know how to fix this. Someone else might be able to.--Da newb 23:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

the page is simply too long. it's only a single song 81.159.158.247 (talk) 20:00, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Nirvana'a Influences[edit]

Previously, I had posted this:

This was subsequently removed by WesleyDodds who claimed that it was "[n]ot really relevant."

I disagree with Mr. Dodds. Here we have a famous band-leader stating that Nirvana, and "Smells Like Teen Spirit" in particular, borrows influences from him and his music. Further, the simularity is explained within the quote.

We could debate whether Mr. Murphey's currect, but I think we should agree that this is, without a doubt, relevant to "Smells Like Teen Spirit." I would thus like to vote on whether we re-add this quote or keep out this quote.

I, for one, would vote to re-add it.

Respectfully yours,

Allixpeeke 04:29, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

As much as I love Bauhaus, Peter Murphy's quote has little to do with anything. It's just him saying, "I think this song showcases some influence from us". It'd be something different if a writer noted any direct similarities (as with "More Than a Feeling" and the Pixies), or if the band members themselves noted a Bauhaus influence, but Murphy's observation is insubstantial. Nirvana weren't influenced by Bauhaus, but I know Kurt listened to Joy Division, so it could be Murphy just hears the Joy Division influence. WesleyDodds 07:45, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
That sounds fair. Allixpeeke

References

  1. ^ Deevoy, Adrian. "Peter Murphey." Q Magazine. June 1992.[1]

Composition[edit]

This section gets into too much detail that nonmusicians would not understand and use of words such as 'explosive chorus' are not appropriate. Satchfan 01:00, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, it is too centered on the guitar. What about the drums? The complex patterns played are also part of the song as a whole and make it identifiable.--200.14.108.1 15:07, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Not only is this section too detailed and guitar centered, it's utterly ridiculous to include it as there is no doubt in my mind that the self taught Kurt Cobain had no clue what key this song is in, nor would he care. Same goes for what chord progression he used, though I will give him enough credit to know the names of the chords he used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.45.142.15 (talk) 04:20, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Backmasking in Teen Spirit?[edit]

I just happened to find this clip when looking for Duran Duran's version of Perfect Day. Has this ever been discussed before? - cgilbert(talk|contribs) 20:09, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Heard it too , and it was NA!NA!NA!NA! forwards and if reversed omg "I HATE U!" there are sooo many backmasks out there in cluding the first 50 sec of Cena's theme.

Move![edit]

Why was the page moved to "Smells like Teen Spirit"? The song's name is "Smells Like Teen Spirit," and is actively identified like that everywhere. I propose a move back to "Smells Like Teen Spirit", per "one should leave the second and subsequent words in lowercase unless the title phrase is a proper noun that would always occur capitalized, even in the middle of a sentence." The song's name is a proper noun.

What do you think? CloudNine 15:13, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm arguing the same thing over at "Just like Heaven (song)". It's this weird Manual of Style guideline regarding the word "like" that no one ever uses. I really would like to change this. WesleyDodds 15:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
    • I have reverted. Hektor 16:40, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

BREAK UP?[edit]

Nirvana didn't break up, their lead singer died. I'm not entirely clear as to why that is in the article? Arthurian Legend 00:12, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Kurt Cobain died, and the remaining members, Krist and Dave, decided not to carry on the band, so they broke up and formed new bands, which means Nirvana broke up.

Breaking up implies a dissolution caused my discord. When things break-up there's a sense of disagreement or (if with a nation or something) even violence. I think a better word could be used like "dissolved." Arthurian Legend 17:21, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

It implies no such thing in the english language. You may be reading more emotion into the word then is conveyed by its definition. -Mask? 19:53, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Usually when bands "break-up" there is an implication of disagreement, the Beatles, for example, broke up because of various tensions amongst other things one can imagine. Whereas, Led Zeppelin, for example didn't break-up, they "disbanded" after the tragic death of one of their bandmates. The comment I made in relation to violence stems from a couple of 20th century phenomena, particularly the Austria-Hungary after WWI and Germany after WWII. The word is self "BREAK" implies something something may have broken i.e. there was a crack or conflict. In fact, in colloquial English one often says a "friendly break-up" to imply is was not a TYPICAL break-up brought on by tension, but more of a consensual dissolution. Arthurian Legend 03:08, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't see such an implication affixed to the phrase "break-up". WesleyDodds 04:38, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations[edit]

…on featured status! \sim Lenoxus " * " 02:10, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Good job to all who made this article great. ! BabuBhatt 03:16, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
gratz +RIP Cobain --sin-man 03:19, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia is so grunge. --Rastabilly 03:57, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
And with good reason! High King of the Noldor 08:22, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Nirvana for ever! In many lists (de Tijdloze 100 being one), this song ranks nr. 1. This is well deserved! High King of the Noldor 08:22, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Cover Image & Critical Commentary[edit]

Given the amount of contentious image deletion going on in the music subsection of Wikipedia due to certain editors' interpretation/enforcement of fair use; is it appropriate for an article containing no critical commentary about the sleeve image to contain that image? Or is someone making a comment on fair use of album/single sleeve images in articles by selecting this article at this particular time?

Congratulations by the way on a truly excellent article that deserves FA status. Megamanic 08:24, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

With album/single covers there's more leniency since it is that specific album/single being discussed. In contrast, simply placing a band's album covers in the band's article would not be kosher under fair use unless there was a specific need to comment on them. WesleyDodds 08:59, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Cover by the Melvins[edit]

I don't know if it's worth including, but there was some commentary from the Melvins' bassist at the time regrding the Leif/Melvins cover. From http://www.truepunk.com/interviews/the_melvins/ :

"The third disc in the trilogy, Crybaby features Leif Garrett as guest singer on a version of Smells Like Teen Spirit - an interesting match-up.

Buzzo: We wanted to work with all kinds of crazy people on that record and the idea of doing that particular song with a burned-out junkie ex-teen idol from the 70s seemed highly appropriate. Haha!

Rutmanis: We finally buried that song. Haha! We did a note for note cover, same key, same tempo, everything's the same except for Leif Garrett singing. What I particularly liked about that is how he sang, very clearly enunciated and you can hear just how horrible the lyrics really are. I like that, it sort of exposed the song for what it is.

I take it you're not a Nirvana fan Kevin? Rutmanis: I thought Nirvana were OK but I didn't think that song was particularly good. I don't really have strong feelings about them either way. As you probably know, those guys are really good friends of Buzz and Dale and they've known each other since they were kids. But as an outsider, the music was never particularly important to me. But that's a matter of taste of suppose." Given the history between the Melvins and Nirvana, I thought this might be relevant. --Morbid-o 17:57, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Front Page[edit]

fantastic! i'm so happy, well done to all who have contributed, an awesome article for an amazing song, brilliant :) Mr Richardson 20:17, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Chord Progression[edit]

I am removing the reference to the chord progression being i-iv-iii-vi. Because the guitar plays power chords and the melody rarely uses the third, the progression is ambiguous. If it is anything, it is not i-iv-iii-vi because he sings F, or the major 3rd to the Db chord in the fourth measure, making the chord a VI not a vi.

The chords change voicings at times because Cobain is playing rather sloppily. There's also a lot of flatted intervals in Nirvana songs, and Cobain often played major chords in minor chord progressions. I've also restored some chord info provided by a source. WesleyDodds 21:22, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Song writing credits[edit]

'In a 2001 interview, Novoselic recalled that after playing the riff repeatedly, he thought, "'Wait a minute. Why don't we just kind of slow this down a bit?' So I started playing the verse part. And Dave [started] playing a drum beat."[8] As a result, all three band members are credited as songwriters.'

I guess from this statement that it was unusual for all of the band to be credited as songwriters, was this the case? Was it usually just Cobain credited or what? It would be nice to have a bit more information about this to help put it in context. --FearedInLasVegas 17:54, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Cobain is the band's main songwriter, going as far as arranging the bass and drums. There's only a handful of songs written by the band as a whole. WesleyDodds 21:57, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Reference to the Tori Amos cover[edit]

Another editor was confused by the part about Tori and advertising. In the early days of her career, she did a cereal ad, as referred to at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tori_Amos#Albums and as you can watch at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D43vgHLRiUU if you like. That's what her song Cornflake Girl was all about. This is undoubtedly what Cobain was referring to when it called her cover a "breakfast cereal" version. I don't have a copy of Come as You Are: The Story of Nirvana to see what all it says on page 257, but I would *hope* that the explanation can be left in. If there is no clue given as to why Cobain called it a "breakfast cereal" version, then the quote may as well be omitted entirely, because few people will find it comprehensible. Poindexter Propellerhead 19:15, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

In the context of Cobain's quote, it comes off as a back-handed compliment, which is the important part of the quote. But he certainly doesn't mention anything about any commercials. WesleyDodds 21:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

This article does not meantion how it was Teen Spirit that started to wipe off Hair Metal and other 80s style music[edit]

This article does not meantion how it was Teen Spirit that started to wipe off Hair Metal and other 80s style music. So I added it in there. Brownstone999 04:21, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, there is that quote from Rolling Stone. Aside from that "Smells Like Teen spirit" isnt credited by sources with wiping out hair metal; Nirvana is. WesleyDodds 05:14, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Tobi Wail[edit]

T. Wail was never Kurt Cobain's girlfriend, it was Tracy J. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.146.106.250 (talk) 15:37, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

release, success, and acclaim section[edit]

I think that the last paragraph of this section would be easier to read if it were a bulleted list.

Bulleted lists are frowned upon on Wikipedia articles in favor of prose, which is why the section is the way that it is. WesleyDodds 05:09, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Suspended chords[edit]

While it's true that the F and Ab verge break into suspended 4th chords due to his playing of the 4th string, when he plays the Bb and Db chords with the fourth string, they become major chords, not suspended chords. TheHYPO (talk) 09:34, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

He uses both because he's playing rather sloppily. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:07, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm just saying, the article says that the song is constructed of powr chords, and then says "The chords occasionally lapse into suspended chord voicings as a result of Cobain playing the bottom four strings of the guitar for the thickness of sound.[13] Due to being neither major nor minor, the occasional use of suspended chords also allows..."
This is not entirely accurate, wherein half of the four chords ARE majors, not suspended. TheHYPO (talk) 10:11, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
I'll try to clarify it when I get home in a few days, since I have a book that analyzes the track musically. WesleyDodds (talk) 11:05, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Cool. Just thought I'd point out the discrepancy TheHYPO (talk) 21:54, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Subliminal mesage[edit]

If you reverse the song you get Kurt saying things like: "I hate you" and "Say yes to me" really freaky. I think that should be mentioned in the article (if not). That's why it's hard to understand what he is saying, because this song is actualy two songs. Check it on youtube, search for: Smells like teen spirit lyrics backwards. I can't get the song out of my head it's just playing in reverse!!!

Smells Like Teen Spirit: #1 on Single Sales Chart[edit]

I am a little confused why you removed the source stating that Nirvana achieved the number one position on the Billboard single sales chart. I used the approprite source and citation in the article, with a direct link to billboard.com. I have included that link here for you to see.....as well as a link to the wikipedia article which describes this chart. It is also part of billboards record archive if you want to double check and do a search for it. In terms of you not seeing this chart often, its becuase it is often not cited. The billboard single sales chart and radio airplay charts were two seperate charts during the 1990's. The information from both charts was taken to make up the Billboard Hot 100. Today, the single sales, airplay chart, and digital downloads are combined to make up the Hot 100. However, the chart does indicate that in 1992 for two weeks...Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit was the highest selling single in America. Because its airplay was a little lower, it appeared as #6 on the Hot 100. I'll leave it up to you whether to include it in the chart positions.

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/esearch/chart_display.jsp?cfi=353&cfgn=Singles&cfn=Hot+Singles+Sales&ci=3011736&cdi=6591246&cid=02%2F01%2F1992

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_charts#Hot_100_Singles_Sales

allaplgies (talk) 02:56, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I removed it because I'm trying to figure out what it is. It's not listed on any of the Billboard charts listed that are linked in the article, and it's rather odd that it's not on there. I'm going to ask an editor that has access to old Billboard charts to look into it. WesleyDodds (talk) 04:30, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I conferred with User:Teemu08, who has access to old Billboard charts. He verified the chart placement, but said there really no reason to list it, since it's a component chart to help determine placement on the Hot 100 (which "Smells Like Teen Spirit" placed at number 6). This probably also explains why that chart doesn't show up on the Billboard chart history. WesleyDodds (talk) 21:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Cover versions[edit]

The cover versions are unsourced. If it's otherwise, show me these sources everybody claims to exist and how they source every cover shown there. Gothbag (talk) 21:39, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

The covers themselves are the sources. We only need sources for contentious material. It's like including a source to verify that Nirvana recorded a song called "Smells Like Teen Spirit". Not only do we not need secondary sources to verify this, we don't need inline citations, because the albums the songs come from are named in the prose. A similar subject was covered at the article's FAC, when someone asked if which releases carry which live versions of the song need to be referenced. It was determined they didn't, because those records are named in the prose. WesleyDodds (talk) 22:41, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Anyway, I think sources are good and I made a little effort to put them. Wikipedia doesn't really allow em ? Gothbag (talk) 22:59, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
It's not that they aren't allowed, it's that they're unnecessary and redundant. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:12, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
But is it really necessary to delete them ? Extra sources are always good and I haven't seen anywhere those sources everybody talks about. Don't make my effort be worthless please; it's an effort following the guidelines. Gothbag (talk) 23:29, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

New tracklist section[edit]

Hello! I am not a frequenter of Nirvana pages here on Wikipedia, but I do a lot of work with music related pages. I noticed this page had a somewhat cluttered section for tracklistings, and I have tried out a new style with a new template that has been created for album tracklists specifically. I constructed a test section in my sandbox, found here. Tell me what you think, make suggestions. If it's popular enough, I would love to add it to the page and possibly to other Nirvana single pages. --Jacob Talk 03:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Personally I'm not a fan of hidden tables, partly to do with the extra script that's used, making it more complicated to go through and edit (yeah, there's really nothing else to add in this article, but I think it's unecessarily complicated). WesleyDodds (talk) 04:44, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, I'm a fan of these tables because they are templates, and they are quite easy to use. Editing them is a breeze with it all preset the way it is. --Jacob Talk 11:59, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
The editing of the section as it is is still far more straightforward. Instead of filling out template fields what you have here is essentially lists. Template scripts take some getting used to for some editors (and they do have problems from time to time) while everything here is listed quite adequately in a manual manner. WesleyDodds (talk) 12:15, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Parodies of this song[edit]

I know of two parodies: The Weird al parody and the Bill Nye parody. In the bill nye parody, The music is very similar but the lyrics were completely different and were about air pressure. The song is called "Smells like air pressure" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.21.85.89 (talk) 03:58, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

100 Greatest Guitar Songs of All Time[edit]

I didn't see this in the article, but if someone has time to add it they should, Smells Like Teen Spirit is number 10 on Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Guitar Songs of all Time...

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/20947527/the_100_greatest_guitar_songs_of_all_time/print —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.54.160.255 (talk) 18:58, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I used it as a reference for the lead. You can use it again under the ref name "RS100". Louis Waweru  Talk  20:38, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
It's not that important to include at the moment, since tha article is pretty recent, and hasn't gotten as much attention as the magazine's Greatest Songs list. WesleyDodds (talk) 20:43, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Grammy nominations[edit]

Why does it keep getting reverted back to 2 nominations? I've searched and searched, and the only one I could find was "Best Rock Song"...but nothing for "Best Hard Rock Performance" Basinger19 (talk) 10:52, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Provide a source. WesleyDodds (talk) 11:03, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
http://www.rockonthenet.com/archive/1993/grammys.htm - thats all i could find, and all of the different searches, including the 1993 grammys on wikipedia, nirvana's nominations on wikimusic, and whatnot, only show Best Rock Song as the nomination, plusI didnt see a source for the 2 nominations as stated anyway. Just simply for the fact they lost to eric clapton. Basinger19 (talk) 19:57, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Smells Like Teen Spirit was only nominated for one Grammy, not two; Best Rock Song. This "other" nomination is only mentioned on this article - not on any reliable source that I've seen, and not even on the Grammy articles or other Nirvana articles on Wikipedia. My guess is the original author of that got confused with All Apologies "Best Rock Vocal Performance by a Duo or Group" or something. Anyway, I've changed it from two to one. 124.179.173.61 (talk) 07:50, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Hey Wesley, how about instead of reverting, you actually check the source and discuss. This source that you seem to be falling back on only claims Teen Spirit was nominated for ONE Grammy. The only sources I could find about Grammy nominations for this song also claims Teen Spirit was only nominated for ONE Grammy. If you check the Nirvana article, there is also only a claim for ONE Grammy - Best Rock Song. You are trying to claim it was also nominated for Best Hard Rock Performance (and lost to Chili Peppers) - if you look at the article in question at the section where Chili Peppers won, you will see that there is no nomination for Smells Like Teen Spirit.

Basically this is the only prominent place on the entire internet where the claim is made that this song was nominated for two Grammy Awards. There is only a source provided for ONE nomination, so you cannot just revert it back without a source claiming other wise. Remember, the burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation. If you are 100% certain it was nominated for two, and you can provide a reliable source claiming so, then by all means revert my edit. However, if you cannot find any evidence for your claim, then you must not add unsourced and inaccurate information. 124.179.173.61 (talk) 07:49, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Rockonthenet is not a reliable source. You also can't rely on other Wiki articles without discretion. Anyways, I found two sources that confirm "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was nominated for Best Hard Rock song: an Entertainment Weekly article from 1993, and a newspaper article as well from the same year (the latter of which specifies two nominations). I would like to find something more authoritative though, but the official Grammys website only lists winners. WesleyDodds (talk) 09:46, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't really relying on them; just making a point that this is the only place I've heard of a second nomination for Smells Like Teen Spirit.

I have a question now that you've found these sources for Best Hard Rock Song - why wouldn't the EW link be suitable as a source for it? I would have thought that they would be appropriate for this kind of information. 124.179.173.61 (talk) 09:57, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh, it's perfectly fine to source, in theory. I just want to do some digging and double check to make sure it isn't a mistake. mainstream press do make errors from time to time. However, it's hard to find information for Grammy nominations prior to proliferation of the Internet, and it's always better to be safe than sorry. Mentions of both awards were originally included in the article as good faith a long time ago (and because it was information considered not likely to be challenged, which is the sort of thing you are required to cite; if it's not likely to be challenged you don't have to cite it, but in recent years I've gone out of my way to cite things just in case), and I just never got around to properly sourcing them. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:08, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Brought to you via ProQuest:
  • Best Rock Vocal Performance, Female: "Ain't It Heavy," Melissa Etheridge (Track from "Never Enough"); "Shot of Poison," Lita Ford (single); "It Won't Be Long," Alison Moyet (single); "Rockinghorse," Alannah Myles (album); "The Bitch Is Back," Tina Turner (Track from "Two Rooms").
  • Best Rock Vocal Performance, Male: "There Will Never Be Another Tonight," Bryan Adams (single); "Unplugged," Eric Clapton (album); "Life Is a Highway," Tom Cochrane (single); "Digging in the Dirt," Peter Gabriel (single); "The Fire Inside," Bob Seger (single); "Human Touch," Bruce Springsteen (album).
  • Best Rock Performance by a Duo or Group With Vocal: "Free Your Mind," En Vogue (single); "Little Village," Little Village (album); "Kiko," Los Lobos (album); "Under the Bridge," Red Hot Chili Peppers (single); "Achtung Baby," U2 (album).
  • Best Hard Rock Performance With Vocal: "Dirt," Alice In Chains (album); "Angel Dust," Faith No More (album); "Live and Let Die," Guns N' Roses (single); "Smells Like Teen Spirit," Nirvana (single); "Jeremy," Pearl Jam (single); "Give It Away," Red Hot Chili Peppers (single).
  • Best Metal Performance With Vocal: "In the Meantime," Helmet (Track from "Meantime"); "Countdown to Extinction," Megadeth (album); "N.W.O.," Ministry (Track from "Psalm 69"); "Wish," Nine Inch Nails (Track from "Broken"); "Into the Void (Sealth)," Soundgarden (Track from "Badmotorfinger").
  • Best Rock Instrumental Performance (Rock, Hard Rock and Metal): "Hound Dog," Jeff Beck and Jed Leiber (Track from "Honeymoon in Vegas, (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack)"; "Bring 'em Back Alive," Dixie Dregs (album); "Gypsy/Grajonca," Santana (Track from "Milagro"); "The Extremist," Joe Satriani (album); "Little Wing," Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble (Track from "The Sky Is Crying").
  • Best Rock Song: "Layla," Eric Clapton and Jim Gordon, songwriters (Eric Clapton, artist); "Digging in the Dirt" Peter Gabriel, songwriter (Peter Gabriel, artist); "Smells Like Teen Spirit," Kurt Cobain and Nirvana, songwriters (Nirvana, artist); "Jeremy," Eddie Vedder and Jeff Ament, songwriters (Pearl Jam, artist); "Human Touch," Bruce Springsteen, songwriter (Bruce Springsteen, artist).
Los Angeles Times. "The 35th Grammy Awards Nominations General Categories." Jan 8, 1993. pg. 20 ISSN: 04583035. Hope that Helps. :) The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 01:25, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Hey thanks for that, Bookkeeperoftheoccult. Is it okay to add it back now? 124.186.246.195 (talk) 06:51, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I added it back. Thanks again for the help. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:50, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

i don't get it[edit]

"I was trying to write the ultimate pop songs"

but they wren't pop songs >_< —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.173.113.96 (talk) 08:51, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Please someone answer me.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.173.82.248 (talk) 15:48, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
You didn't ask a question. Doctorfluffy (robe and wizard hat) 16:24, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
"Pop" is short for "popular", usually in conjunction with "culutre". Anything within the cultural mainstream is considered part of pop culutre, or pop, of which Nirvana at their height certainly were, regardless of where they can be situated within the musical spectrum based on genre or influences or sound. For all intents and purposes, anything Nirvana produced during their career would be considered pop based solely on their recognizability and popularity despite what categories (musically) their sound denotes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Closetotheknives (talkcontribs) 17:22, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

genesis[edit]

"Cobain did not begin to write "Smells Like Teen Spirit" until a few weeks before recording started on Nirvana's second album, Nevermind, in 1991." and

" "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was, along with "Come as You Are," one of a few new songs that had been written since Nirvana's first recording sessions with producer Butch Vig in 1990"

well which one was it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.174.4.33 (talk) 10:26, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

There's no discrepancy here. Nirvana recorded with Vig in 1990, then teamed up with him again to record Nevermind in 1991. WesleyDodds (talk) 09:17, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

'Duration' sub-template[edit]

My addition of {{Duration}} in this article's infobox, {{Infobox single}} was recently reverted with the unwarranted edit summary of "Not necessary". I plan shortly to add the hAudio microformat to that infobox; and the new sub-template ensures that the duration of the track is included in the emitted metadata. This is explained in {{Duration}}'s documentation. Furthermore, this article is given in the infobox's documentation, as examples of good practise, is the use of {{Duration}} here will encourage creators of new instances of the infobox to include the metadata-emitting sub-template, making that data available once the microformat is emitted.

At the same time, the reverted edit added {{Unbulleted list}}, which marks up multiple items semantically, as an HTML list, rather than using the presentational line-break.

While these edits involve no visual changes to people viewing the page in a browser, they are necessary to make our HTML more standards-complaint and to make our data more easily reusable by other sites and tools. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 12:56, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Looking at the hAudio draft microformat[3], it says that there should only be one duration element. Does that not mean that you edit[4] which added two durations elements would cause problems? --JD554 (talk) 13:16, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
There is one duration per item. Each Single is will (when hAudio is applied to the template) be marked up as a separate item. In the meantime, a second (or subsequent) value would be ignored, so "fails safe". Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 15:21, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for clarifying. --JD554 (talk) 15:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
"While these edits involve no visual changes to people viewing the page in a browser, they are necessary to make our HTML more standards-complaint and to make our data more easily reusable by other sites and tools." Where is this stated? WesleyDodds (talk) 04:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Above. Do you dispute that? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 11:18, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
What I meant was can you point to a guideline that states that we must use this template? WesleyDodds (talk) 11:30, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Which template? There were two. The use of HTML list mark-up for lists of items is mandated by the HTML standards and WCAG (Web Content Accessibility Guidelines) from the W3C. {{Unbulleted list}} achieves that. If you know of a better method of doing so, please use it. There is no guideline requiring the emission of audio-related metatada by Wikipedia (as done by {{Duration}}); like a lot of things we do on Wikipedia without written guidelines mandating them, it's simply best practice (the infobox will have metadata about the track; the new template will simply ensure that the duration is included within that). Do you have an argument against doing so? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 11:44, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
To clarify, I was referring to the Duration template. Mind you, templates are handy, but they aren't mandatory. It's a bit silly to format the track duration to fit a template when you can write it out in plain text (as it already is). It's the same reason why the Track Listing template or the Citation templates aren't mandatory. WesleyDodds (talk) 11:53, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
I agree with WesleyDodds, while it may be useful, we're unlikely to get editors to use the template when all they have to do is type the time. Perhaps it would be best if the functionality of {{duration}} was built into the infobox (and other similar infoboxes)? This is just one article, change the infobox and you change thousands. --JD554 (talk) 12:08, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
We could build the functionality into the infobox infobox, but it would require separate parameters for minutes and seconds (and perhaps hours); and each instance of the infobox would still require editing, to make use of those new parameters. Editors don't seem to have a problem using {{Start date}} or {{Birth date and age}}, which work in similar fashion, but if they don't want to use {{Duration}}, they can still enter plain text and another editor, or bot, will make the conversion later. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 13:41, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
This part of the discussion probably belongs somewhere else now, but you wouldn't need separate fields for minutes and seconds, just parse for the colon. --JD554 (talk) 14:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
If you can demonstrate that that's workable, and not prone to unexpected results, I'd be fine with that. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 15:23, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
It's not at all "silly to format the track duration to fit a template when you can write it out in plain text"; the plain text cannot be understood by computers; the template ensures that each comment is wrapped with pre-defined HTML classes so that they can. Nobody is saying that {{Duration}} should be madatory - just as {{Start date}} or {{Birth date and age}} are not. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 13:41, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
← FYI, there is an RFC on microformats in general ongoing here: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Microformats, where {{duration}} is mentioned. –xenotalk 15:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Sampling[edit]

The intro to "Smells Like Teen Spirit" sounds very much like Australian Crawl's "Daughters of the Northern Coast" which was a single from their 1982 album "Sons of Beaches". Discussion and audio samples of both songs can be found here: http://auspowerpop.blogspot.com/2009/09/musical-coincidences-25.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.206.55.55 (talk) 20:21, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

If you look up the song on youtube, the similarity is indeed striking. Did anyone object to mentioning this or did no one ever get to it?PizzaMan (♨♨) 15:02, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
I can't find a really good reference, would anybody object to adding a small mention based on this reference? PizzaMan (♨♨) 18:55, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

American Idol[edit]

As abysmal as it was, I think last week's cover of Teen Spirit on American Idol should get a mention in the covers section because of the large amount of attention it received in the media. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.134.97.246 (talk) 23:28, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Working title[edit]

In Nirvana by Everett True, it was noted the working title was "Anthem", but they lost a bet and had to change it. Shouldn't that be noted somewhere? yawaraey (talk) 04:03, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Hot 100 Singles Sales[edit]

I think it might be a good idea to mention somewhere in the article that Smells Like Teen Spirit got to number 1 on the Hot 100 Singles Sales, which can now be sourced from Billboard.com: Nirvana Hot 100 Singles Sales. I know the Hot 100 which is based on sales and airplay is the main chart, and that the song only got to number 6 on it. However back in 1991 singles sales (physical) in the US were a lot more important. QuintusPetillius (talk) 17:56, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

From what I understand, it's a component chart of the Hot 100, and including component chart information is generally discouraged on Wiki, though I don't mind if someone brings up information to the contrary. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:02, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
Hi Wesley, yes the wiki guide lines at Wikipedia:Record charts do indeed say that you should not include component charts unless the song did not chart on the main chart but did chart extremely well on the component chart. I could also quote you as saying "Bear in mind that guidelines are merely that: guidelines for what to do, not mandates. Very few things on Wikipedia are hard-and-solid policy. If you feel you have sufficient rational to ignore all rules, then you are encouraged to do so".. However I am not at all proposing to include the chart in the chart table. However I think it should be mentioned in the article body due its significance which I will try and explain with a bit of chart history. The Hot 100 back in 1991 was calculated based on the two component charts: the Hot 100 sales and Hot 100 Airplay. Back then there was a greater emphasis on sales. Taking Smells Like Teen Spirit as an example. It got to number one on the sales chart but only number 41 on the airplay chart yet still managed to achieve a relativity high number 6 on the overall Hot 100 chart. By the end of 1990's there singles sales declined and a greater emphasis was placed on the airplay. For example Foo Fighters scored a number 19 hit on the 100 with "Learn to Fly" even though it was never released for sale in the US. It earned the position on the Hot 100 entirely because of its position at number 13 on the Hot 100 Airplay chart. The same applies to Nirvana's "You Know You're Right" which got a position of number 45 on the Hot 100 entirely due to its position of 43 on the Hot 100 Airplay chart. So what I am getting at is back in 1991 a number 1 single on the sales chart was far more significant than it was in later years.QuintusPetillius (talk) 16:53, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
One issue to consider is that I've yet to find a source that makes a big deal about "Teen Spirit" topping the sales chart. Usually it's the Hot 100 placing that's given notice. Another is the assertion that a sales number one had more weight back then than in the the future. As I recall from a few news articles I've read, sales have had a huge impact on chart placings since digital sales started being counted around the mid-2000s. Plus the two Billboard rock charts--mainstream and modern rock, under their various names--have always been strictly airplay-based, and the former started in the early '80s and the latter in 1988. WesleyDodds (talk) 09:21, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
Yes digital sales were counted from about 2005 in the US and are now taken into the calculation for the Hot 100 but I was talking physical sales. Now, you can have a number one on what is now the physical sales chart and not even make it onto the Hot 100. Anyway its no big deal I just thought it would be worth a mention. The other Nirvana song I thought it might be applicable to is "Lithium" seen as there is such a big difference between the sales chart position (#31) and the Hot 100 chart position (#64). But hey its no big deal.QuintusPetillius (talk) 10:22, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 20 February 2015[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No move. Cúchullain t/c 20:20, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


Smells Like Teen SpiritSmells like Teen Spirit – Prepositions containing four letters or fewer should not be capitalized in article titles per MOS:CT. Move log and past talk page discussions bring up very poor points about "official" names. (The name of the song is exactly the same; the difference is the capitalization, and we have guidelines for that.) –Chase (talk / contribs) 05:59, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

  • Comment. I agree with you in principle, but are you sure that "like" is uneqivocally a preposition in this case? If so, there are a lot of other articles that need correcting.[5][6] --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:21, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support per MOS:CT (at least unless someone digs up a grammatical rationale for why "like" shouldn't be considered a preposition here). —BarrelProof (talk) 15:54, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose - The song on YT goes with the capital L and so do all of the sources on Google, Personally I see no reason why it would need to be changed, I have no idea why MOS:CT was ever created as lets be honest it serves to purpose and is a pain in the arse. –Davey2010Talk 05:59, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose All sources show it with a capital L. Also on all of the Nirvana releases it is spelt with a capital L. Surely as a title of a song it should be with a capital L.QuintusPetillius (talk) 11:17, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.