|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Smile article.|
|WikiProject Comedy||(Rated Start-class, Top-importance)|
|WikiProject Psychology||(Rated Start-class, Mid-importance)|
|It is requested that a video clip or video clips be included in this article to improve its quality.
- 1 Disambig?
- 2 Picture removal
- 3 Exposure of teeth
- 4 Pictures of smiles
- 5 Fake Smiles
- 6 Duchenne smile
- 7 Service Industry
- 8 Smiles + photography
- 9 Duchenne smile not always involuntary
- 10 Yet more girls smiling?
- 11 "the laughing assassin"
- 12 LOL!
- 13 Pan-American Smile
- 14 Image
- 15 Smiling in animals
- 16 Merge: Duchenne smile
- 17 Cleanup
- 18 unicode
- 19 Politeness/communication
- 20 Famous People
- 21 Gallery
- 22 Submission and smiles
- 23 I don't know with you but...
- 24 Evil Grin
- 25 Nice touch with the smiley face graphic in the lead sentence
- 26 Smiling in infants
- 27 Article alley
- 28 needs a lot more work
- 29 More Scientific Descriptions (to aid those with an ASD)
- 30 Seligman
- 31 Unclear / poorly worded, or just typo?
There's like a whole paragraph for other pages. I think we need a disambiguation (sp?) page.
Stop removing the third picture, it's an excellent example of a smile..and she's also hot! It's also public domain, she owns the picture!
There is no point, its repetition, and why does it say "angelic"?
She's not my g/f, LOL! Let's remove the 2nd picture and replace it with hers, then. It's an online encyclopedia. Since when were encyclopedias limited to only X amount of pictures?
Exposure of teeth
The article talks about the human smile, and then talks about animals baring their teeth.
However, in humans, does one necessarily have to bare their teeth to necessitate a smile? The article makes this a little unclear. There are people who can smile but can't (at least naturally) bare their teeth, but I think smiling just has to do with the curvature of the lips, regardless of teeth. --Rc251 09:35, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
- Yes, smiling can be done with or without baring teeth. However, I think the article mentions to inform that when animals do that, it may look like a smile, but isn't, at least not in the normal meaning of the word (to show pleasure, happiness, etc). -- Jugalator 20:58, August 12, 2005 (UTC)
Pictures of smiles
The blonde girl's smile doesn't seem like a very good example of the classic Duchenne smile to me, as the area around her eyes is not very involved in her overall expression. I actually prefered the picture of the guy on the beach which isn't there any more to this picture, as the upper half of his face was fully involved in the smile (a necesary component for a true smile!). The addition of the Iraqi girl smiling is a great one. The theme of smiles being universal across culture is important, and her smile is also a great example of a genuine one. Perhaps this theme could be developed even more with pictures of smiles of people from even more different cultures. Preferably all of the photos in this article would clearly show contraction of the orbicularis oculi muscle, unless they are labelled explicitly (and correctly) as a different (non-genuine) kind of smile. sallison 09:39, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
I looked this page after my boss told me that unless I smile more often at customers he would feel it necessary to sack me, as customers have been complaining that I am 'unfriendly'. I am sure there are many others in the same position as me, who may be feeling some resentment. As far as I am concerned, often I will manage to fake a smile, only to lose it as soon as I realise that the customer before me is essentially saying 'smile or else'. This obviously raises various issues, and there are only two comments that I can really think of making about this, the first two workers in the service industry, the second to consumers: To Workers: Like me, I am sure you have felt resentment at essentially being told that unless you fake friendliness, you are sacked. However I have come to the conclusion that this is an inapropriate responce. My boss has no choice. He doesnt want to sack me, but if I cannot smile, the customers will go elsewhere. And the customers also have no choice. They genuinely believe that not being overtly friendly is a sign of hostility. All they can be accused of is having been successfully socialised into today's strange society, where everyone has something to sell and needs to do so. All they are guilty of is stupidity. To Consumers: Please, please have mercy on the workers and dont complain about 'unfriendliness'. If a worker does not smile at you it does not mean that he hates you. The fact that he does not like you is nothing for you to worry about. He does not even know you, how can he be expected to like you?
Lakshmi Nawasasi, a Wikipedia reader posted the following question to the Wikimedia help list.
I was read about a definition of duchenne smile from Wikipedia ... It was very interesting. But I do not find any picture of duchenne smile on that article . If you don't mind, please send me a picture - how a duchenne smile looks like ? ... I am really curious about this Thanks for your help Yours Sincerely , - Lakshmi -
I advised that I understood that the smile of the Iraqi girl at the top of the page was a Duchenne smile. I'd be grateful for any advice. Capitalistroadster 03:34, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
It seems like someone was using this page to get back at a boss. I eliminated the unnecessary references to the service industry.
Smiles + photography
Many pictures from the late 19th century and early 20th show people with somber looks on their faces. I seem to recall that people were told not to smile as opposed to our custom today. Does anyone know if this is true and when smiling for the camera actually started? Maybe Bill Bryson will read this and answer it. He seems to know everything about everything.
- They say that long exposure times (up to 10 minutes) inhibited smiling. You try holding the same smile for the next 10 minutes. Or 2 minutes. I know my facial muscles are likely to seizure after smiling too long (even on my wedding day). However, exposure times bcause much shorter before smiling became more popular. A Google search yielded a few interesting sites  .
- According to those, there were social norms in play as well.
- Sorry I'm not Bill Bryson. But I am from Durham... North Carolina. JordeeBec 00:43, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Duchenne smile not always involuntary
Yet more girls smiling?
I've reverted the addition of Image:SaraSmiles.jpg because it does not contribute anything to the article. Wikipedia is not Myspace. If anyone disagrees, let's discuss the issue here. Sandstein 06:06, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- I'm in agreement with removing the picture... it seems to have been uploaded by her significant other or a stalker (as evidenced by the original caption). The original picture was also said to have come from her MySpace page, until someone pointed that out. A new instance of the same picture was then uploaded saying that it explicitly did NOT come from MySpace, which is sort of suspect...
- The article has enough pictures of girls smiling anyways. Voretustalk 03:27, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
- Agree The image contributes nothing. The description does not make sense in the context of an encyclopedia. The only thing this image can contribute has already been put up. The person just put it up for glory or for wierd unusual reasons. You know what, that image is really bothering me, I'm getting rid of it... now... again... EDIT: Forgot to put Sig --PokeOnic 02:49, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
"the laughing assassin"
Is this true of all humans? I have heard that in some cultures (in Indonesia for example) smiling is more indicative of embarrasment/shame is this true? jimjacobs 220.127.116.11 09:42, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
The "natural smile" seems to be fake. -- 18.104.22.168 11:07, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
- It does seem quite obviously fake to me too, I'm going to replace it.--Sir Anon (talk) 09:31, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Smiling in animals
My cats have always appeared to smile when I pet them, and they certainly aren't doing it out of fear. I'd be interested to know what research there is into the subject of what smiling means in different species, and whether humans are really unique in using it as a sign of pleasure. marbeh raglaim (talk) 07:54, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
- I came here to suggest the same thing. There is even a photo of a smiling Boston terrier on this article. I could (and I may) research sources and add a section regard non-human animals myself, but, at the moment, I don't really think I have sufficient time to do more than minor edits here and there. Ian.ruotsala (talk) 19:46, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Merge: Duchenne smile
"There is much evidence that smiling is a normal reaction to certain stimuli as it occurs regardless of culture. Happiness is most often the motivating cause of a smile." However, since so much smiling is done for cultural and social reasons - to be polite ("friendly") - shouldn't there be at least some mention of this as well? Currently the article seems to disregard this. Smiling out of politeness and as part of communication is partly purely voluntary, partly "subconscious," but it certainly isn't just "normal reaction to certain stimuli." Shadowcrow (talk) 07:42, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
"Famous People With Smiles"? Seriously? This is very superfluous. If the information must be kept, I suggest a different heading: "Notable smile imagery in popular culture" or something similar. CrashCart9 (talk) 05:40, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, I've been tempted to remove it since it was first added not too terribly long ago... There are a few particularly famous smiles (the Mona Lisa springs to mind), but as it stands the list is a mess. --Icarus (Hi!) 06:34, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone have any thoughts on what the standards should be for inclusion in the gallery? There have been some additions of random people whose only relation to the subject is that they are smiling in the photo. For example, as far as I know, neither Kalpana Chawla nor Tiger Woods is well-known specifically for their smile, and at the image size in the gallery, their smiles are not particularly prominent anyway. There need to be some standards, or practically any image of any person could be added on the grounds that the subject happens to be smiling!
I propose that the gallery images in this version are all acceptable. The Mona Lisa is especially known for her smile, the next two images are of good quality and allow a small variety of smiles to be seen clearly without giving undue promotion to random celebrities, the the politician one illustrates a specific social custom and its purpose, and the smiley face on the ball is a common symbolic representation.
I further propose that any additional images must likewise have some specific benefit to the article, and any without may be removed. It would be a benefit, for instance, to have a wider representation of normal people smiling to include both sexes, more ages, and more ethnicities than just the two smiling girls, but only if they are all high-quality images with smiles clearly and readily visible, like the two smiling girls currently there. Representing more diversity should also not become an excuse to grow the gallery to an unwieldy size: the point is to represent diversity, not to catalogue every single possible variation of humanity.
- We probably shouldn't have a gallery at all. The article should be expanded and images added where they are appropriate. Kaldari (talk) 19:26, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
An exaggerated open-mouthed smile
Artwork on this ball is a common abstract representation of a smiling face.
A section of Mars that looks like a smile
Some people can smile at inappropriate times
- At some point, the gallery had been restored. I've trimmed it down, as it's becoming a magnet for image spamming of trivial images which add absolutely nothing not already adequately illustrated elsewhere. I have no objections to the re-removal of the section, as the remaining images are also of little value given the existing better quality images elsewhere in the article, and the existing commonscat link is already a better location for extended image galleries. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 17:15, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
- Using photograph of Blair/Rice smiling is provocative. Those two are frequently associated with human rights violations. Stoltenberg is proposed as a new head of NATO. Gandhi has nothing to do among these, i.e. he is their antithesis. Use more neutral photos of politicians.--Jaksap (talk) 23:00, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
Submission and smiles
Submission and smiling has been linked by various individuals, for example particularly women and people of different races and classes in regards to those with more power. Here is result of searching books.google for "human smile submissive." I'm sure there could be lots more searches including using terms in first sentence. In case anyone is interested in exploring this idea more. CarolMooreDC (talk) 23:56, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't know with you but...
I think the article does not mention enough encyclopedic information about "fake smiles" or "evil grins" that are also part of human culture, and convey meanings other than happiness or good-natured joy. It is mentioned in other parts of this talk page too. A picture may also be illustrative. Of course, this needs expert attention, preferably from a psychologist.---22.214.171.124 (talk) 04:59, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
Nice touch with the smiley face graphic in the lead sentence
Smiling in infants
I came to this article hoping to learn at what age babies start smiling. I had always heard 4-6 months, but I wanted some sourced substantiation. If anybody knows a citation for this, please say so, and then I'll be glad to make the edit if nobody else wants to. ACW (talk) 03:36, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
I deleted the citation of the article from article alley for two reasons
- 1- Article alley is not a reputable source. Anyone can write for it and get published.
- 2 - the article mentioned an academic paper, but did not provide a citation of that paper
It would be much better to simply cite the original paper here in the WP article. Jjk (talk) 14:59, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
needs a lot more work
The comments on cultural differences suggest that smiling doesn't have the social significance everywhere that it does in the US, and a little historical digging will show that it has never been universal. There's every possibility that Americans condition smiling behavior as part of "service" or market relations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 14:10, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
More Scientific Descriptions (to aid those with an ASD)
I think this page could be improved by describing the effects of smiling in social situations more clearly and scientifically, especially for those with an Autistic Spectrum Disorder.
I find most of the articles on Wikipedia very good at describing clearly the relevant key points on a subject in detail, however the section on "Social Behaviour" in particular seems more to be advocating smiling as a policy and stating evidence for the benifits of improved conversation through body language rather than explaining clearly reasons why people smile, its purpose, what it communicates to another person and why it matters to a neurotypical person whether a person smiles or not in a certain situation. Many people with an ASD understand that smiling is caused by happiness but need a clear explanation of the more subtle points such as how it can be employed deliberately to convey information in a social situation.
For example, it is confusing that saying the same sentence can have a different effect on a person depending on whether or not certain expected body language is employed, such as a smile. It would be useful to explain what differences smiling has on the way the recipient thinks and feels and why and how this may change the recipient's reaction.
I also think it is important to include details on judging whether it is appropriate to smile based on the situation and people present, and the effects of smiling in an inappropriate situation or misinterpretation of a smile (such as what is mentioned in the section "Sex Appeal").
In his book Authentic Happiness, Seligman addresses the duchenne smile but it is not mentioned in either the article about Seligman, or here under the duchenne smile. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 20:09, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
Unclear / poorly worded, or just typo?
Under "Social Effects" it says:
"Smiling is not a pre-laughing device and is a common pattern for paving the way to laughter;"
What on earth is that supposed to mean? The two halves of the sentence appear to be directly contradicting one another, yet are joined by "and".