Talk:Soma

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject India (Rated C-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Hinduism / Mythology (Rated C-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hinduism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hinduism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Hindu mythology (marked as High-importance).
 
WikiProject Religion (Rated C-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Psychedelics, Dissociatives and Deliriants (Rated C-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Psychedelics, Dissociatives and Deliriants, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of hallucinogens on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 

Isn't this a hoax ?[edit]

In ancient times, Soma was pressed in almost every temple of the Deva kingdom, using the Linga (or Lingam), a heavy stone-mill. According to the legends, it was their only trump in the long conflict with the Asura. Big Soma factories like Vijayanagar (earlier Matanga) produced millions of doses in average 3-5 harvests per year. Soon Soma became an inner-political instrument. Statues and reliefs showing ingredients or the making of were destroyed, the recipe was hidden and only known to the highest Dravid priests.

Linga for pressing Soma? Trump? Soma factories? Recipe with the highest Dravid priests? Really? --117.204.89.149 (talk) 04:48, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Seems to be a hoax, without a reference. Thanks for pointing out. --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Would like to hear from dab or rudra about its alcoholic properties. Manusmriti has it as a sacred or ritual drink. Did it acquire inebriating properties anywhere other than in white man's fancy? --117.204.94.3 (talk) 16:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

culprit -17:41, 1 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.204.94.3 (talk)

Oh dear, this was indeed a hoax. And it was left standing for more than a year. Well, we know that anyone can edit, so there is no way to avoid this sort of thing happening now and again.


My Ancestors hail from north western India (Saraswat) and I find that racist . There was a genocide of Dravidian at the hands of Aryans .This racism is omnipresent in myths via Asura.

I am a Saraswat and I do find the dravid customs bit offputing .But going this far to negate the argument on pure racism , not really called for ...=/

Back on topic I wonder is Bhang/Thandai related to Soma ?

As for "inebriating", I daresay Indra is pretty inebriated most of the time. I mean, RV 10.119? And passim? Alcohol is, of course, a sacred and ritual drink in many cultures, no contradiction there. The real question is that of the possible psychedelic qualities of Soma. It turns out there is very little evidence for that. --dab (𒁳) 20:34, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

But there is a contradiction when it comes to Manusmriti which forbids consumption of liquor as a mahapataka (great sin) for Brahmins while vesting with the privilege of drinking soma?-117.204.81.191 (talk) 01:45, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
[I'm not an expert.] There's not necessarily a contradiction. Hindu society evolved (and evolves), and the Manusmriti is from a later period than Vedic... and contrary to frequent claims, it is more of a (very idealised) descriptive document on the social conventions and ideals of its period, rather than laws for eternity. Also, from the description on these Wikipedia pages at least, Soma appears to have been a stimulant, not alcoholic. Finally, if there is a contradiction, well, so there is. :-) Shreevatsa (talk) 02:39, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
well, the theory is that soma-the-drink had as its main ingredient the juice or sap of soma-the-plant, apparently a stimulant, most likely Ephedra. Soma-the-drink may have had other ingredients, and may or may not have been fermented. The Manusmriti was written a full millennium after after the hymns about Indra and his soma high were composed. By then the Soma ritual had become completely ossified as a priestly ritual and was no longer an intoxicant for tribal warriors or the like. Any society changes beyond recognition over a millennium, even if there is a continuity of tradition. Compare, if you will, an Anglo-Saxon tribal warrior in the shield-wall of Byrhtnoth with a current-day member of the Queen's Guard with his weird bear-skin headgear. Continuity, yes. Similarity of context or purpose, hardly. --dab (𒁳) 21:35, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Agreed; that's what I sort of meant, too. Shreevatsa (talk) 22:32, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Reorganized "Western Reception" section -- where to put Maharishi's TM-Sidhi ?[edit]

I found reference to Maharishi Mahesh's trancendental meditation-Sidhi Program in the "Western Reception" section. It was stuck in the middle of a bunch of references to fictional and musical accounts... i.e., it didn't belong there. It was logical and more clear to group "Literature and Music" references together in a sub-category. And it is important to put slightly expanded information on carisoprodol in a "Pharmaceutical Drug" category because many people turn to Wikipedia for drug information and this Soma page comes up first in all searches, as opposed to the 'disambiguation' of Soma where carisoprodol can be found... but many people would not find and/or follow through and/or know to search for. So this reorganization works well without compromising the Vedic theme of this Soma page.

But what to do with TM-Sidhi's concept of Soma? I can see how someone might consider Maharishi's efforts to not be genuine Vedic / Hindu topics and more of a "Western" thing, but does it really belong in "Western Reception?" He considered himself Vedic... e.g., his syncretic teachings on "Vedic Science". If this should be moved anywhere, it seems to belong in the "Vedic Soma" section... right? Lapabc (talk) 19:11, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Put it in Contemporary Hinduism. — goethean 19:14, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
Okay, makes sense to me... will do. Lapabc (talk) 20:55, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

"Consensus of thought"[edit]

The article states:There is no solid consensus on the question, although most Western experts outside the Vedic and Avestan religious traditions now seem to favour a species of Ephedra, perhaps Ephedra sinica.[1][2][3]

One of the footnotes is dead and the other 2 are full books with no specific page numbers given. I wouldn't think giving a whole book as support of a statement, without page numbers would suffice. Somaeye (talk) 07:20, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Original Soma - Bhang Ki Thandai with Ephedra?[edit]

I find a lot of information about ingredients have been removed disappointing, especially Bhang.

In Mary Boyce's book "Zoroastrians: Their Religious Beliefs and Practices" on page 5, she states the original Soma was made from milk, the leaves of one plant, and the juice obtained from pounding stems of another plant.

In Piloo Nanavutty's book "The Gathas of Zarathushtra: Hymns in Praise of Wisdom" on page 65 there is the story about Ahura Mazda giving Gayodad some Bhang to eat and rubbed it in his eyes to reduce his suffering.

The research of Graeco-Russian archeologist Viktor Sarianidi also confirms the presents of Cannabis by seed impressions found in pottery at ancient Zoroastrian locations.

Knowing the early Zoroastrians believe in the medicinal or psychoactive properties of Cannabis leaves and the use of Ephedra in ritual today, Soma may have originally been a form of Bhang Ki Thandai with Ephedra.

76.29.105.211 (talk) 04:34, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

File:Soma diety.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion[edit]

Image-x-generic.svg

An image used in this article, File:Soma diety.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: All Wikipedia files with unknown copyright status

What should I do?

Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.

  • If the image is non-free then you may need to provide a fair use rationale
  • If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used.
  • If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review

This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 06:05, 22 November 2011 (UTC)