Talk:Soup

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5/19 revisions[edit]

  • The classification of soups in this article comes from the "Larousse Gastronomie" and therefore should be defined as French. (page 998). "Food and Drink in America" confirms this. (page 462).
  • The invention of the spoon and the ensuing popularity of soups occurred in Europe in the 17th century. Unsure of my oriiginal source for the popularity of the spoon in Europe. The origin of the spoon is a lot older than that. Morton's "Cupboard of Love" (page 289) states that the spoon became a popular eating utensil in the 14th century; "Food and Drink in America" (page 462), a far more comprehensive history, and says that "exquisite ivory spoons were buried in the tombs of pharaohs" and that the word spoon was used in the Book of Exodus when God commanded Moses to make gold spoons. (page 434-435). I originally added this, but cannot locate my source. It's just inaccurate, and needs to be explained in more detail. I am guessing that spoons became used more widely in the 17th century as a result of the changing fashions of the times...but cannot find the proper citations...

I got rid of the two sentences:

Thin soups became popular in Europe during the 17th century, when the spoon was invented. The spoon was designed to accommodate the new fashion of wearing large, stiff ruffles around the neck.

If you can find a source, put it back in. If not, it doesn't belong here. The spoon was never invented. The long-handled spoon was used around that time so you could use a spoon without damaging your ruffles, but you still can't prove that the spoon's popularity made soups more popular; maybe the desire for some good soup led to better methods of eating it. Besides, why specifically would thin soup be associated with spoon lengths?

24.125.117.4 00:10, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

  • The word restaurant derived from Boulanger's (the "French entrepreneur") shop. The French called these soups "restaurers" and when the shops became more popular, the word changed to "restaurant". Source: Morton's "Cupboard of Love" (page 256). Confirmed in Eugene Ehrlich's book, "You've Got Ketchup on Your Muumuu," (page 204).
  • Information on Jean Baptiste Gilbert Payplat dis Julien is cited in "Food and Drink in America" (page 462).
  • First American cookbooks: "Food and Drink in America" (page 461).
  • Chicken Nodle Soup is one of the most popular soups in America: Source "The History of Campbell Soup Company" see full reference on Campbell soup Company.
  • Deletion of lakschen: Chicken Soup a.k.a. "Jewish Penicillin" can include anything from kreplach, Matzoh Balls, noodles, or lakschen. However: lakschen is a Yiddish word and not a requirement for "Jewish Penicillin." Source: Mama Leah's Jewish Kitchen" (page 64) and no doubt plenty of websites devoted to Chicken Soup and "Jewish Penicillin." Campbell's calls it noodles.
Priority 3

Boulyon Cubes[edit]

What are they? Im not sure how to spell it, but its used i the Scrubs episode where JD and Turk put Boulyon Cubes in Hooch's shower and call it "the Soup Shower" JD moves out and JD makes Hooch his best freind. i put this in soup talk because they call it the soup shower.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dappled Sage (talkcontribs) 17:37, 10 February 2007 (UTC).

Bouillon cube used instead of broth or stock as a soup base. Rmhermen 17:47, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thanks Ive been wanting to find this out forever. Dappled Sage 21:47, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Article scope[edit]

Clearly this needs an exposition of the history of cooking in some form, from the Romans through the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, and the development of modern soups via Italy, France and modern times. Were Asian soups an independent invention? How important were soups generally in the development of noodles? What about the history of mulligatawny?

Differences between soup, gruel, stew, etc.[edit]

Difference in definition between soup and beverages? What's the border between soup, gruel, broth, congee, porridge, etc? Removed salty from the description, as some soups are sweet--Confuzion 08:06, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

What's the difference from stew? And someone should look at the terrible description of stock (food) which this article links to. Rmhermen 13:54, Jun 14, 2004 (UTC)

DEFINITION OF SOUP[edit]

I deleted the following text from this version:

Learning to boil food was advantageous because it greatly expanded the available food supply for humans. Previously inedible grains, tougher vegetables and animal bones could be cooked together to add their taste and nutrients to a dish.
In addition, making soup was a convenient method of cooking food, as food could be cooked as long as water and fire were available. Cooking food in water was an advancement in cooking methods, since it improved the consistency of cooking.
My logic is as follows: Boiling food is not making soup. Boiling food has a lot to do with the history of food preparation, but not necessarily the history of soup. allie 23:00, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Technically, boiling food is not making soup. If you boil an egg, you are not making a broth, because the content of the egg does not go into the water. But if you boil grains, vegetables, meat or bones, some of it goes into the water to make a broth. It might be a thin broth, but it certainly did not take long for people to realize their was nutritional value in drinking the water from boiling food, and thus soup was born.--RLent (talk) 22:45, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
While logical, sounds like original research to me... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.158.48.18 (talk) 18:00, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Soup v Beverage[edit]

And now I cannot stand it, and I have to look it up in the OED, thank you very much. Okay: A "beverage" is something that one drinks. A "soup" is a savoury liquid that is made by boiling ingredients together, such as vegetables, meats, and legumes. The word, "soup" is medieval. When meat was boiled, the resulting broth was poured over bread. Now someone is going to question why is this different than saving rice water? My answer would be, that when writing an article on soup - stick to soup - otherwise this will never get written and you'll get consumed in what is known as "Pea Soup" or an impenetrable fog... allie 20:34, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The other semantinc question about soup is do you drink it or eat it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.35.4.7 (talk) 03:53, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Stew v Soup[edit]

A stew is a soup with meat as an overwhelmingly primary ingredient (for example, chili is a type of stew). allie 20:34, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Asian soups[edit]

As a suggestion for the non-Western soup section, I'd like to see some description of some of the more 'popular' asian soups such as: miso (Japan), seaweed soup (Korea, called Mi-Yeok Guk in Korean), Tom Yum something? (Thailand), Pho (Vietnam) etc. Mimsie 23:49, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Wording: homeopathic?[edit]

Is homeopathic really the word to describe the "chicken soup/common cold" relationship? Joyous 06:01, Jun 15, 2004 (UTC)

No, it isn't. Homeopathy is a very specific pseudo-science which has nothing to do with soup. I'll change things (if someone hasn't beatnen me to it). RobertAustin 08:45, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Cold soup[edit]

Vichyssoise is not an American potato soup! The name is French. Any experts on leek and potato soup out there? JPF 11:59, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I was confused too. Turns out it was developed by a French chef working at an American restaurant in 1917. This page [1] has move detail about it and soup history in general. Should be a good source for our article. Rmhermen 20:54, Jun 16, 2004 (UTC)

Chicken Soup[edit]

I think there should be a link to the (already existing, good-sized) article on Chicken soup, but everyone contributing to this article seems to be obsessed with chicken noodle soup. --Random|832 07:52, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Actually, that links to the history of Campbell's soup. The original 21 varieties featured a "chicken soup with noodles" but when it was advertised on "Amos & Andy" radio in the 1930s, by a slip of the lip, they referred to it as "Chicken Noodle Soup." Campbell's changed the name almost instantly, as as a result, the legend of chicken noodle soup began. There you go. allie 19:59, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Modern Technology[edit]

Modern advances in soup preparation generally consist of microwave types. There are reductions newly available, but I'm concerned that this will complicated matters. A reduction is when a stock is slowly simmered down from, for example, 20 quarts of stock to 1 cup of reduction. allie 20:34, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)soups need to be really fatty!!!!!!!!

Popular Soups[edit]

Look at this listing: They're NOT popular soups: They're REGIONAL cuisine that have become globally popular. There is a difference. Do you think an American housewife in 1920 would have ever heard of Bouillabaise? Or vichyssoise? So that has to be considered. allie 20:34, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

You appear to be talking about the section "Famous soups"? Not "Popular soups" And I am not sure what use the opinion of a 1920's American housewife is when making a 2000's international encyclopedia. Rmhermen 01:32, Jan 8, 2005 (UTC)
I'm referring to the fact that these soups were not "popular" prior to the 20th century. They were "regional" and distinctly cultural in origin. It was only with the advent of modern technology that the French soups, for example, or the modern definition of soup, which is distincly French, became accepted and standardized. So there is a difference. While the cooking method itself dates back to Neandertal era, there is a great difference between what was palatable or more accurately, would have been served in any household anywhere. For example: Bouillabaise would never have been served in a New England household in the 18th century; and conversely, Clam Chowder would have never been served in a Provencal household during the same time. So I hope that makes sense. allie 14:16, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)


Chicken noodle soup It is often used as a traditional remedy for the common cold. Chicken soup and lockshen (Yiddish for noodles) is known as Jewish penicillin. Noodle soups are also quite common across Asian cuisines.

Where did the content go?[edit]

This article is a lot shorter than it used to be. What happened? In particular, why did the information about soup in ancient times disappear? - Fredrik | talk 2 July 2005 06:47 (UTC)

Carm down, who cares about soup its not as if one peace of missing writing is going to mean that no one can make soup any more?

One peace? Don't you mean one peas as in whirled peas? Pleas don't make a federal case out of it or I'll have to take you to court so the judge can here your please about this read herring.

Sops in Onion soup?[edit]

I'm confused by the section which says onion soup is a surviver of the custom of making thick stew and pouring it on bread. The only onion soup I have ever seen or eaten has been a thin, clear soup.

_; you poor dear. The finer cafés that are so common around the world usually serve onion soup in the form of a thick, cheesy soup that is very filling. Of course, this is the French version of it, whose name I have forgotten; however, I understand there is a "poor man's" version of it that may be what you have been treated to.

Soup time[edit]

Might want to include when people drink soups. There are some cultures that drink before and some after their main course meal. 128.6.175.26 17:56, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Soup in other languages[edit]

I think this section should be removed, since Wiktionary:soup already has such a list. Links to notable soups in other cultures can be moved into the appropriate section. Wmahan. 23:26, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Soup in America[edit]

I was wondering why the paragraph about Soup history in America was there? (In America, the first colonial cookbook...).

This is a genuine question -- I'm still learning about WP and wasn't sure if this is an encyclopaedia for people learning about America? It's not an American invention, so why would this go in the article? --Kierenj 12:15, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Good question, which Kieren has taken in a more general form to the Village Pump and which is being discussed in general there. Tonywalton  | Talk 10:28, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Didn't you know? America is the centre of the universe!

An encyclopedia 4 people learning about America? Dude, what country do you live on? Wikipedia is awesome and it has info about almost everything imaginable. Hope that answers ur question. For reals what country do you live in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.215.26.168 (talk) 23:45, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

Soup and Health[edit]

Does Soup have a link to eating healthy? Is this notion true? Soups can be extremely healthy or extremely unhealthy. I often get angry because it is hard to find places that serve healthy soup. Is my anger justifiable? Or does health and soup have no connection?

I think it's a comfort thing. Like hot chocolate and such after an awful day.Eelio 15:44, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

The Nature of Soup[edit]

The first line says that soup is a type of drink. While it is a liquid, I would not consider it a drink. Any thoughts? Matthew Cadrin 16:56, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

RACIST?[edit]

Is "Jewish Penicillin" considered RACIST? --ColaDude 20:45, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Nah, but it's not exactly very accurate either. Westerners in general consider chicken soup to be effective medicine. Or just whites in general. You know, like that South Park episode Red Man's Greed they describe the "traditional medicine of the white man" which consists of chicken soup and Sprite.
WTF — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.158.48.18 (talk) 18:06, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Gee, thanks guys![edit]

It sure is good to know that Wikipedia editors have their eyes on what's important. I really think there would be something wrong with this article if it didn't spare a few words for the depiction of soup in computer and video games. It is my hope that someone will find the time to add such a section to every Wikipedia article on otherwise staid and tedious subjects, such as pillows, washing powder and Faberge eggs. The article still, however, feels a little thin and limited in scope in its coverage of soups as featured in media favoured by shut-in twentysomething nerds. Perhaps a section on soup in animes would be the way forward here, or one on appearances of soup in the Pokemon franchise? 172.213.96.96 13:17, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Your comment is dripping in delicious, soupy sarcasm. 216.136.4.136 (talk) 18:33, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

The thing is, 172.213 is right imo. But the problem is with WP's editors. At the risk of going on a tangent more needs to be done on fighting (and ultimately destroying systemic bias)---the only reason why so much rubbish is put into these articles is because those people believe that they have the right to contribute, and all they can contribute is their own experience ("computer and video games... animes... Pokemon"). Take a look at the German or Russian WPs and you'll notice there's a different attitude there: there is a unspoken but well understood idea of what WP should be and there is less cruft, and the "I want to do something" attitude is largely absent (fortunately). (My rant really belongs on the bias page...)
Anyway that section seems to be gone from the article. 118.90.42.87 (talk) 01:10, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Those should be considered Media / cultural influences, not exactly directly related to soup, rather the use of it. Perhaps you can make an articles focusing on the cultural influences of soup? Hlht (talk) 15:10, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

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Dorrance's invention[edit]

I've just read the book Condensed Capitalism: Campbell Soup and the Pursuit of Cheap Production in the Twentieth Century by Daniel Sidorick, published in 2009 by the ILR Press/Cornell University Press (http://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/?GCOI=80140100149010). It says that Dorrance actually did not invent the condensed soup, which was at the time already made by several other producers, including Abraham Anderson, the former partner of Joeph A. Campbell, with whom he co-founded the company in 1869. And even the Campebll's Company itself was working on the idea of condensed soup before John T. Dorrance came to it. Thus, IMO stating that the Campbell Soup Co. is the birthplace and Dorrance the inventor of condensed and canned soup is a lie. As a myth, it is however an important part of the company's identity and marketing strategy. What Dorrance actually did and achieved in the food business is absolutely amazing because he created an entire new market segment for the condensed soup, which his company began to producing at a very large scale. Through very innovative marketing strategy he created a real demand and desire among the housewifes of the US for his product and gave it to them for a cheap price of 10 cents. Sidorick counts that in the end of 19th century the entire food business in the US produced only about 1 million of cans containing soup, yet in 1904 only the Campbell's, which was already the market leader, sold over 16 million of cans. Kowalmistrz (talk) 19:10, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Fruit compotes are not soups[edit]

Who has been editing this article? In English, soup is a savoury dish. Feel free to check the definition in ANY English dictionary.

European and Asian variants of watery fruit dishes are compotes or have their own nomenclature in the specified languages. I am not aware of any that define themselves as 'soup'. The entire section is WP:OR. Please find WP:V and WP:RS for claims of compotes being soups.

For the moment, I'm simply tagging the relevant section. Ultimately, it should be removed as they do not fit the definition of 'suppa' as broth with vegetables, grain, beans, etc. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 02:25, 22 February 2014 (UTC)