Talk:South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands

Portal box Argentina?

I doubt if that portal box (inserted recently in the 'See also' section) is appropriate here. This is an article on the British overseas territory which is not dealt with in that portal. The latter might, if at all, be relevant to the 'South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands sovereignty dispute' article instead. Apcbg (talk) 05:14, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Agree. Pfainuk talk 08:21, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Agree. Didn't change it as my contributions are still monitored by certain parties looking to make mountains out of molehills. Justin talk 10:28, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Fixed. Apcbg (talk) 15:18, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't agree, what are the reasons? Since there is a territory reclaimed by Argentina and there are islands very near to that country... Can't be a article of interest for the argentinians? If the soberany is disputed there is because more than one country are interested on the territory, and it's the case of Argentina so I found fine that tag in the discussion, agur. --190.132.17.32 (talk) 09:28, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

confused, help

i am confused, how is georgia near russia but south geogia is near the falklands???? GMS1 (talk) 09:38, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Assuming you're not trolling, South Georgia was named after King George by Captain Cook, South Georgia to avoid confusion with the American Province of Georgia. Nothing to do with the state of Georgia. Justin talk 10:07, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Permanent Residents

To deal with the apparent contradiction between the fact of no permanent residents and the population of 30 given by the infobox:

The human inhabitants of SGSSI are all scientists belonging to the British Antarctic Survey. These operate on a rotation: I believe the standard length of a spell as a scientist on the islands is 18 months (so that each individual spends two summers and one winter on the islands). The entire population is therefore transient.

There were, for a few years, two people who could arguably be described as permanent residents. The museum curators, a husband-and-wife team, lived and worked on the islands without any particular plan to move on. But some might argue that the islands still did not have a permanent population on the basis that there was no sense of a settlement, where people are born, live their lives and die, in the way that one normally expects a permanent settlement to work. In any case, the point is moot as the museum curators decided to move away. I believe that the museum is now staffed seasonally. Pfainuk talk 10:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

For all I know, the UN defines "an international migrant as a person who resides outside his of her country of birth or citizenship for one year or more.", while "a temporary migrant ... resides in another country for three to twelve months." The national legislation in my country (and possibly other countries) regards foreigners staying for over one year as 'permanent residents' and those staying for three to twelve months as 'temporary residents'. Therefore — unless South Georgian Law says otherwise :-) — BAS personnel on 18-month contracts would qualify as permanent residents, I believe. Apcbg (talk) 10:54, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

No they wouldn't, the law on BOT is quite specific that the contracts are temporary. This is to avoid the legal consequences of a permanent residence. Wee Curry Monster talk 18:02, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

So what? 'Residence' and 'contract' are different kettle of fish. Permanent residents may well be on temporary contracts, the definition of 'permanent resident' disregards (intentionally) the reason for or length of stay — provided the latter is one year or more, which it apparently does in our case. Apcbg (talk) 18:44, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Whether there are permanent residents (and thus a permanent population) is one of those things that makes perfect sense as a black-and-white distinction, provided you don't look to closely. When you do look closely, a whole host of shades of grey emerge, which have the potential to make things very complicated.

Rightly or wrongly, when I think of a place having a population of permanent inhabitants, I tend to take the term in a more practical sense. I think of communities who intend to live there without (as a community) any particular intention of moving elsewhere - that are set up to have families and suchlike there. One might describe Grytviken whaling port in the early twentieth century as an example. That's not to say that the legalistic sense of the term is not illogical or unreasonable - as I say, it's a bit of a grey area. Pfainuk talk 19:00, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Sorry but the population is transient, they have no permanent right to remain. Ergo they cannot be permanent. Wee Curry Monster talk 20:18, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

I thought that sourced defined notions had priority over personal opinion here (however natural and reasonable the latter might seem). Apcbg (talk) 21:24, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

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[1] From the official website:

“

Population South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands (SGSSI) (further to the south-east) are a UK overseas territory. Continuous UK administration has been in place since 1908. At the height of the whaling period some 2,000 people lived on the island. Now there are no permanent residents - but there are two British Antarctic Research Stations (Bird Island and King Edward Point), Government Officers and museum curators during the summer months.

”

[2] FCO website - No indigenous population

Apcbg you know I respect you and your contributions but quoting a UN reference that has no legal relevance is not a relevant source on this occasion. Quoting your own nations legal position is also not a source. Wee Curry Monster talk 21:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

The FCO says 'indigenous' not 'permanent'; the sgisland.gs site is fine but still no SGSSI legal definition of 'permanent resident'; moreover not all SGSSI residents are BAS personnel e.g. the Government Officers and families are not; BAS contracts may be 18-month ones but who says consecutive contracts are ruled out etc. etc. However, I sort of have that 'Gibraltar talk page' feeling that further discussion on this topic might prove more time and effort consuming than productive, so I'd rather leave it at this. Best, Apcbg (talk) 22:47, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Cheers mate, thanks for that low blow. Merry Christmas. Wee Curry Monster talk 23:19, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and all SGSSI/FI/GI aficionados! Apcbg (talk) 05:25, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

I have no idea what just transpired. Outback the koala (talk) 06:39, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

"the only way to visit is by sea"

Couldn't they fly a plane there? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.186.160.22 (talk) 03:51, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Planes do fly to South Georgia for various purposes (air sovereignty patrolling, mail dropping etc.) but do not land as the island has no airstrip yet. Apcbg (talk) 06:02, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Overseas territory of the EU

I've removed this phrase. SGSSI is one of 21 listed overseas countries and territories of EU members and its status is that of "overseas country or territory" (not "overseas territory of the EU"). That means it is outside EU jurisdiction, rather than that it is a South Atlantic outpost of the EU. The territory is not part of the EU, having something closer to associate member status. As such, the EU is of extremely limited relevance, certainly not something for the opening sentence. --Lo2u ^{(T • C)} 12:24, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

• I support such a move, it doesn't belong in the lede. Wee Curry Monster talk 12:26, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
• Unlike France and Spain and Portugal who joined along with empire lands overseas, The British Empire did not join in 1974 only the small part called the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" this only has Northern Ireland, Scotland, Berwick-upon-Tweed, the principality of Wales and England, it includes of course the islands of these independately defined Juristictions (Main Acts of Parliment define applicability in these terms): but doesn't include both crown colonies and oversees teritories (nee dependant) including the Isle of Man and the Channel islands.

- Things are always open to change and now citiazans of the Empire have been given the right of a full British passport and withit the right of abode in the UK runing Dualy with any other Nationality they already have access to. Also more important to this thread some voters in teritories close to Europe were given the right to vote in European Elections by a complex mechinism to count teritories like Gibraltar as a newly linked part of the EU region of "South West" which lies inside the state of UK. It was a move to help with the soverignty issue with spain and the resentment that UK Expats in Southern Spain could vote but the Gibraltians couldn't. The Gibraltians want to be associated with the State of UK rather than the state of ES.