Talk:Southern Illinois University Carbondale

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Full name of uni[edit]

Is this campus just, and only, Southern Illinois University, or Southern Illinois University Carbondale. If it's the former, the title of this article probably should be Southern Illinois University (Carbondale) since it seems to be standard to list disabiguating but non-official information in parens. If the latter, the article should probably clearly state that the name of the uni is fully SIUC. Madmaxmarchhare 05:53, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I think that Carbondale is part of the official name of the university and that the page name is resultingly correct. I don't think I ever see the university name on campus without Carbondale included. Although I could be wrong, I think it's probably safer to leave it as is for now.Dekkanar 18:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
There is a university, Southern Illinois University, with campuses at Carbondale (hence SIUC) and Edwardsville (SIUE). There are many 'colleges' and 'schools' that are part of the greater SIU (as is the case with any 'university' as opposed to a mere 'college') and are located at one or both campuses, a 'School of Medicine' in Springfield, IL, a 'School of Dental Medicine' at Alton, IL, and even a 'center' located at East St. Louis. My source for this, Madmaxmarchhare, is the official website: http://www.siu.edu and specifically: http://www.siu.edu/hp/aboutsiu.html. I trust that this will put any appearance of a dispute to rest; the original comment by Madmaxmarchhare should never have been allowed to result in an entire entry in Wikipedia looking suspect when the answer was and remains so readily available. Aenonymus 18:21, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, there needs to be a page for Southern Illinois University as a whole, as this article only refers to the Carbondale campus. Also I have noted that some statistics (such as enrollment) refer to the entire SIU, not just Carbondale. I have tried to fix some of these, but the numbers quoted on this page are still very rough.

Improving this article's neutrality[edit]

PWdiamond 21:47, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

There are only a couple of paragraphs in the whole article, it doesn't look like a very good advertisement to me. Certainly nothing to "totally dispute". Just add citation tags, no need to make a federal case of it and drop a thousand pixels of nasty tags on top of the article. --Dual Freq 23:43, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The article is being updated and the neutrality is being considered. Hopefully this dispute can be reconciled soon. It would be nice if the flag at the top of the page can go away. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TamTam79 (talkcontribs) 20:33, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Distinguished Faculty Section?[edit]

Today the trivia section of this article was removed and with it, some information that has a legitimate place in the article. I have tried to add some of that information back to the article in a way that conforms with Wikipedia standards. One piece of information that I think should be in the article but does not currently have a good place in the article is the information that Buckminster Fuller was a professor at SIU:

Architect/systems guru Buckminster Fuller taught at SIU for many years. Several of his original geodesic domes can still be seen around the campus and city--including his former residence, the so-called Bucky Dome, which is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

I think that the appropriate place in the article for this information would be a section on 'Notable faculty'. However, no such section currently exists and I am hesitent to create the section with just one faculty member. Therefore, if anyone else has any suggestions for notable faculty members, I would really appreciate placing that information here. I will be happy to follow up on suggestions, add information and sources to the article and otherwise create the section, but I don't really know who all should go in there. I would appreciate any help I can get. --Dekkanar 02:58, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Athletics[edit]

When talking about athletics: A)you DO NOT NEED TO PUT SIUC. The C has no place when talking about the Salukis, as they are known nationally as just the Southern Illinois Salukis and B)There is an athletics page. All the athletics info was moved there for a reason. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.124.239.144 (talk) 04:49, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


However, the national association of the name "Southern Illinois University" with the Carbondale campus will become clouded when the Edwardsville campus fully transitions to NCAA Division I athletics, which - if my memory of the situation serves me correctly - will occur in 2009. Just something to think about... --InDeBiz1 (talk) 00:26, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Siuseal.gif[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

Image:Siuseal.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:35, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I have added a fair use rationale to the image for the SIU Seal. It is essentially the same rationale used for the similar seal on the University of Notre Dame article, which does not appear in danger of deletion, so it seems like the seal image should be kept. Dekkanar (talk) 16:26, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Poshard.jpg[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

Image:Poshard.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 15:23, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Significance of Quartiles[edit]

To User:Tool2Die4, you are of course correct to state that schools below the first quartile are not ranked. But I disagree entirely with your assertion that the statement you deleted adds nothing. It makes it clear that SIUC, while ranking in the third quartile, is nonetheless one of the better schools in the state. Yes, ISU can (and should) say the same thing. Yes, it is unclear whether ISU or SIUC ranks higher. But what is made perfectly clear is that UIUC is in a class by itself, that ISU and SIUC are somewhere lower, and that everyone else is lower than those two. This is not meaningless, and in my opinion needs to stay. HuskyHuskie (talk) 21:19, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I will agree to adding the caveat to the sentence that UIUC is the ONLY public school in Illinois which is numerically ranked. Anything else misleads the reader, and slants the article. Let's be honest with ourselves - these are 3rd tier schools, which mean they are in the lower end of quality higher education institutions. Tool2Die4 (talk) 22:08, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
I disagree with your conclusion, about these being at the lower end. The mere fact that they are placed in this category makes them a significant cut above in the rankings compared to WIU and EIU. And an explicit caveat that UIUC is the only numerically ranked school would seem to me to be out of place in this article. It is more than sufficient to say that UIUC is the highest. HuskyHuskie (talk) 22:16, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
To clarify: WIU is in the top half of its category. Do you think that that means that it is superior to ISU, in the third quartile of its category? If you think this, you don't yet understand the ratings. HuskyHuskie (talk) 22:17, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Upon further review, the sentence actually fails WP:OR, as you are adding your own interpretation of the rankings. So we can either remove the sentence, or add the appropriate tag to the article, to let people know what they are reading. Tool2Die4 (talk) 22:34, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Please explain your reasoning regarding the OR. It is a fact that UIUC ranks higher than SIUC and ISU, correct? It is a fact that no one else besides UIUC ranks higher than SIUC and ISU, is it not? I'm sure you have something in mind, but it's unclear to me what it is. HuskyHuskie (talk) 05:05, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
It's fact that UIUC ranks higher than both SIU and ISU. However, the gap between the institutions is such that saying that UIUC is the only institution ranked higher gives the reader a false sense of where ISU and SIU fall in the grand scheme. The article links to the US News rankings. Let the reader draw their own conclusion; don't lead them on using an interpretation of the rankings. Very strong arguments can be made for any number of the schools who only grant baccalaureate or Master's degrees being superior education institutions to schools who grant Doctorate degrees.
I'm willing to have a 3rd party review the article and give their input. Until then, the article needs tagged as violating NPOV, or OR. Tool2Die4 (talk) 05:21, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
The "impression" that you feel that the reader will receive is entirely your own creation; while not a violation of WP:OR (because you've written nothing into the article), it's in the tradition of OR because you are making assumptions without any factual foundation for it. Worse yet, you appear to harbor some significant prejudice against any of the public schools in Illinois besides UIUC. Why on earth cannot a third tier university be "serious". Look, there are over 2600 colleges and universities in the United States.[1]. Only 10% of these qualify for the US News/Carnegie Foundation criterion to be listed as a "National University".[2] You arrogantly dismiss any school that does not receive a numerical ranking as not being "serious". Look, U of I is the big man on campus. But your dismissal of every one else is like an ignorant basketball fan who thinks that someone who isn't a starter on a contending team is a poor player, forgetting about the fact that less than 400 players are good enough to even get signed to an NBA team. Sure, it's okay to compare the guys on the court, and it's perfectly legitimate to say that this player sucks in comparison to that player, but the fact is, anyone who gets to play in the NBA is a serious player. If you don't think that there is a difference between an SIUC or even an NIU that offer medical and law degrees to students who come from all over the country to attend, as opposed to a WIU or an EIU whose existence is a secret to anyone from out of the state, then you haven't read the US News descriptions of its rankings.
Having said that (abridged version: your take on the comments about the "false sense" given by the current wording is nonsense), I will concede that you make one very good point. Colleges in different categories, particularly small liberal arts colleges, can and are legitimately regarded by a great many people as providing a superior educational experience to their students. And the wording of this (and the ISU article) must not appear to deny this fact. For that matter, there are some people who would regard the educational experience of say, Augustana College, to be superior to UIUC. It depends on what the student and her family are looking for. So I'm going to look at this and see if I think it needs reworking, and I also agree to your suggestion that a third-party look it over as well. I wish I was here often enough to engage in sufficient discussion to be a part of this matter, but I can never know when my circumstances will keep me away--sometimes for months. I have no idea how you solicit outside opinion, but however it's done, I endorse your doing so. I do not endorse tagging in the meantime; I'm unconvinced that it is necessary. HuskyHuskie (talk) 07:01, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
First and foremost, it is against Wikipedia policy to put your comments within mine, without my permission, which you didn't have. I will let that one slide. Second, anytime you feel ready, step down off the soapbox and tone down the personal attacks. Given your handle, I'd guess you are an overweight grad from Northern, so you also have a horse in the race. And for the record, as far as public schools in Illinois go, UIUC is the only one worth its salt, and I think you get that. I will add in verbiage to clarify that SIU and ISU are only behind UIUC within the category of schools that award Doctorate degrees, to differentiate from the fact that Eastern and Western are numerically ranked also, but within a different category of schools. Tool2Die4 (talk) 13:24, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
I may have a horse in the race, as you say, but if you will look into the edit history of NIU, you will see my objectivity proven time and again as I have reverted at least thrice[3] [4] [5] attempts by NIU boosters to remove the sentence stating explicitly that NIU is in the bottom quartile, and other edits and edit summaries[6][7] prove that I am no shill for NIU, regardless of my personal feelings. I think it should be clear that, if I lacked objectivity, I'd be the first one asking to remove these rankings altogether. As far as soapboxing is concerned, I've only been responding to your comments unnecessarily deriding the other schools in the state. Though no one has even once disagreed with the statement that U of I is the best show in town, you aren't satisfied with that, and you attempt to rub everyone else's face in the dirt in which you presume they already are laying. You have been the one with the POV chip on his shoulder. And don't get some idea that I've got a bias against U of I. In fact, to an outside observer, I probably look like a UIUC booster.[8] [9] I really hope that you look at the above difs that I've provided, but if you're only going to look at one, make it this one. I think that my UIUC and NIU edits, when compared, make it clear that I'm not the one who came here with an agenda. Finally, though I find it hard to imagine that you actually regarded it as the "foremost" point you wanted to make here (I suspect you actually got caught up in a cliche), let me offer my apologies for inserting within your comment. It was an accident, bucko. Congratulations on discovering AGF.
But despite the fact that I think you've behaved like a bit of an ass (having been accused of conducting personal attacks, I might as well actually engage in some), I must admit that your current edit is quite good; it's more concise and significantly better than what I had envisioned. Well done. HuskyHuskie (talk) 14:51, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
You represent directional state schools well, and essentially proved my point. Thank you. Tool2Die4 (talk) 14:59, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm quite capable of letting any slights go by as long as the end product is a better article, which I think we have secured here. I also have no problem acknowledging when someone has taught me something (such as the apparent fact that there are actually some ostensible engineers out there who can write). If it's important to you, I leave you the last word, regardless of its spirit. All I really care about is the article.HuskyHuskie (talk) 17:16, 13 April 2008 (UTC)