Talk:Sri Aurobindo

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Former good article Sri Aurobindo was one of the Philosophy and religion good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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/Archive to 2012

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Sri Aurobindo/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Chiswick Chap (talk · contribs) 15:47, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Rate Attribute Review Comment
1. Well-written:
1a. the prose is clear and concise, it respects copyright laws, and the spelling and grammar are correct. Believe copyright is ok, hard to be sure as many sites use WP's text.

Some issues remain (tagged). I've copy-edited the new text but the rapid editing risks causing further imbalance, as well as disrupting the style of text (and of references, which had been very tidy - not a GA issue, but the article isn't looking its best with references in so many recent styles).

1b. it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. Lead ok; layout ok; weasel ok; fiction n/a; list probably acceptable, though "Followers" could with benefit be rewritten as text (and it needs refs). Done. External links far too numerous, and appearing POV - either incorporate as refs or remove, one link to ashram should suffice. Done.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. Reference to Ken Wilber's works on Aurobindo are oblique rather than actual direct citations. This needs to be fixed. Influences section is not adequately cited.

Answer: updated please have a look. This has fixed the immediate problem, but the coverage of Wilber and other critics remains very thin, not near GA status in this respect.

2b. it provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines. There are uncited sections, eg Involution, Evolution, Brahman. Since these are questions of spiritual/religious belief they are open to challenge and must be cited.

Answer : Have completely re-written and in summary way from the autobiographical source of Sri Aurobindo. Shrikanthv (talk) 21:58, 1 January 2013 (UTC) Done.

2c. it contains no original research. Broadly ok.
3. Broad in its coverage:
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic. Seems acceptably broad, covering expected topic areas. Not sure politics is covered broadly enough, e.g. influence of Vivekananda should be mentioned; indeed, the question of who and what influenced Aurobindo needs some coverage, there is no shortage of sources. Poetry is barely mentioned either. The whole topic of criticism of and reactions to Aurobindo, favourable or otherwise, is not treated - this applies to his politics, poetry and philosophy.

Have added info , Vivekananda influence was very brief and have mentioned this regarding politics , he was influenced by French , Italian , American struggle over England Shrikanthv (talk) 15:02, 6 January 2013 (UTC) The direct influence perhaps, but the whole question of the cultural, political and philosophical influences remains almost wholly uncovered in the article, and this is a critical question for GA status.

3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). Focus is ok. Each area is concisely summarized.
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias, giving due weight to each. The Influence section is too brief for a major figure like Aurobindo, and dissenting opinions (or interpretations, like Wilber's) need fuller exploration and citation. This remains a major issue for GA status; the article is now referenced, making it clear that most of it is either from Aurobindo's own writings or from his ashram, risking a breach of WP:NPOV. This must be balanced by a suitable coverage of other points of view, especially but not limited to the Influence section. It would be advisable to introduce a "Critiques" section also to give adequate coverage of other authors' views of Aurobindo and his philosophy.

Answer : updated with citation. The progress that has been made makes it clear that much work remains to be done to achieve proper balance, rather than having a view "from inside". This will involve substantial knowledge of the literature about Aurobindo.

5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. no sign of it.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by images:
6a. images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content. Surat Congress image lacks author, copyright tag

Answer : Have corrected the image details with new url source , (please note that picture is more than 100 years old and the author cannot be identified.) Done.

6b. images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. ok.
7. Overall assessment. The hard work of the week on hold has fixed the immediate referencing issues, but has exposed the structural weakness of the article in describing mainly the Aurobindo story from within, with only marginal coverage of the influences on his politics and philosophy, and equally thin treatment of his position vis-a-vis the critics, favourable or otherwise, of politics, philosophy and poetry. Since it does not appear likely that this could be rectified if the article is held for another week or two, it will be best if it is worked on quietly by the community for a while, and brought back here perhaps in six months or so when ready.

I would not even bother to review it. The article is largely unsourced and it is impossible to fix it in a month or two. It is full of tags and in need of more. Thus, it is eligible for a quick fail. — Yash [talk] 14:22, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

If other people feel the same, we can do that. For now, I'm minded to wait a week and see if it's making realistic progress. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:46, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

unsourced information[edit]

following is the unsourced information i have moved to talk page, i find them relevent and may be are summary of corpus of books, for which currently am unable to find the references please update it if any body find any sources for following texts

Analysis of Indian culture[edit]

In Renaissance in India (earlier called The Foundations of Indian Culture),[citation needed] Sri Aurobindo examines the nature of Indian civilization and culture. He looked at its central motivating tendencies and how these are expressed in its religion, spirituality, art, literature, and politics. The first section of the book provides a general defense of Indian culture from disparaging criticism due to the misunderstanding of a foreign perspective, and its possible destruction due to the aggressive expansion and infiltration of Western culture. This section is interesting in the light it sheds on the nature of both Eastern and Western civilizations, how they have developed over the centuries, how they have influenced each other throughout the ages, and the nature and significance of these exchanges in the recent period. The principle tenet of the exposition is that India has been and is one of the greatest civilizations of the world, one that stands apart from all others in its central emphasis, or rather its whole foundation, based on spirituality, and that on its survival depends the future of the human race—whether it shall be a spiritual outflowering of the divine in man, or a rational, economically driven, and mechanized association of peoples.

Interpretation of the Vedas[edit]

One of the most significant contributions of Sri Aurobindo was his setting forth an esoteric meaning of the Vedas. The Vedas were considered by some to be composed by a barbaric culture worshiping violent gods. Sri Aurobindo felt that this was due to a failure by both Eastern and Western scholars to understand Vedic symbolism.

Sri Aurobindo believed there was a hidden spiritual meaning in the Vedas. He viewed the Rig Veda as a spiritual text written in a symbolic language in which the outer meaning was concerned with ritualistic sacrifices to the gods, and the inner meaning, which was revealed only to initiates, was concerned with an inner spiritual knowledge and practice, the aim of which was to unite in consciousness with the Divine.

In this conception, Indra is the god of mind lording over the Indriyas, that is, the senses. Vayu represents air, but in its esoteric sense means prana, or the life force. So when the Rig Veda says "Call Indra and Vayu to drink Soma Rasa" the inner meaning is to use mind through the senses and life force to receive divine bliss. Agni, the god of the sacrificial fire in the outer sense, is the flame of the spiritual will to overcome the obstacles to unite with the Divine. So the sacrifice of the Vedas could mean sacrificing one's ego to the internal Agni, the spiritual fire.

Sri Aurobindo's theory of the inner spiritual significance of the Vedas originally appeared serially in the journal Arya between 1914 and 1921, but was later published in book form as The Secret of the Veda. Another book, Hymns to the Mystic Fire, is Sri Aurobindo's translation of the spiritual sense of many of the verses of the Rig Veda.


The Future Poetry[edit]

In Sri Aurobindo's theory of poetry, written under the title The Future Poetry, he writes about the significance that art and culture have for the spiritual evolution of mankind. He believed that a new, deep, and intuitive poetry could be a powerful aid to the change of consciousness and the life required to achieve the spiritual destiny of mankind which he envisioned. Unlike philosophy or psychology, poetry could make the reality of the Spirit living to the imagination and reveal its beauty and delight and captivate the deeper soul of humanity to its acceptance. It is perhaps in Sri Aurobindo's own poetry, particularly in his epic poem Savitri, that we find the fullest and most powerful statement of his spiritual thought and vision. _______ Shrikanthv (talk) 21:39, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

WP:HONORIFIC[edit]

I just ran the search "Aurobindo was" through GB and was surprised by the results; somewhere between 2/5 or 1/2 of the hits didn't use Sri. According to WP:HONORIFIC we're only supposed to use them when there's no recognition at all with the name without. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:56, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Sri Aurobindo was how he referred to himself. — goethean 16:43, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
Yes. He started this in 1926 when he was 54, and started the ashram. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:36, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
What difference does that make? If Billy Connolly started referring to himself as Saint Billy would that mean we would name the Wikipedia article as that? In ictu oculi's point stands, and the article should be at Aurobindo Ghosh. It was moved to this title in 2009, without discussion. Skinsmoke (talk) 01:50, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Why hasn't this article being moved yet? I think it's quite clear it should be done plus there are many instances of "Sri" usage in the rest of it. I'll give it some for time for anyone to object and only then proceed. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 18:11, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

It should clearly be moved (over redirect, which needs an admin). See wp:NCIN for more detail on applying wp:HONORIFIC in similar cases. LeadSongDog come howl! 16:51, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Is this true?[edit]

Is this true: QUOTE: 'By the end of two years of probation, Aurobindo had no interest in ICS exam and came late to the horse riding exam purposefully to get himself disqualified for the service'

Why write a lie which even Ghose himself wouldn't have said. It is a well known fact that Ghose couldn't ride a horse. 117.204.95.188 (talk) 13:25, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes its true , please go through the refernce link and page 31 of the book and you will find the truth Shrikanthv (talk) 14:06, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Re-work for GA[edit]

I have started to rework on the page for attaining GA status again, so any help would be usefull and please discuss here before making any changes directly Shrikanthv (talk) 11:32, 6 February 2014 (UTC) Talk:Sri Aurobindo/GA2

Had really lost touch with wiki process have corrected it out thanks for the help Shrikanthv (talk) 06:29, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Indicscripts[edit]

As per Wikipedia:INDICSCRIPTS, native scripts should not be added. Shrikanthv (talk) 13:38, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Sri Aurobindo/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Royroydeb (talk · contribs) 19:44, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Lead[edit]

  • "Maharshi" - It is not an English word, so its translation should be present in brackets.
  • "King's College, Cambridge"- in which country?
  • "He was imprisoned by British India"? I think "British government" or even "British" would be perfect.

RRD13 (talk) 13:37, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

-"Done"- Removed the word maharshi as no original sources were found refering to him as maharshi, added king's college details , updated details of british India Shrikanthv (talk) 07:09, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Early life[edit]

  • Who were his siblings? As far as I know he had a brother named Barin Ghosh.

-"Done" : updated Shrikanthv (talk) 07:08, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

  • Rangapur should be linked.

-"Done" : updated Shrikanthv (talk) 07:08, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

RRD13 (talk) 13:42, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

  • The sentence is hapazard. The name of her sister should be there along that of his brothers joined by and.

RRD13 (talk) 12:34, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

-"Done" : reworded sentence to be more consize Shrikanthv (talk) 06:23, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

England[edit]

  • Who took them to England?
  • The names of the subjects should start in capital letters and should be appropriately linked.
  • Please mention where St Paul's School is located.
  • ". He also acquired some familiarity with German and Italian"- I cannot understand what it says.
  • Instead of K.D. Ghosh, please write "His father".

RRD13 (talk) 12:52, 19 March 2014 (UTC) -Done - added information, changed capital letters, language detials added , chanded to his father and also some vague informtion was shifterd to specific information Shrikanthv (talk) 07:15, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Baroda[edit]

  • "working first in the Survey and Settlements department, later moving to ..." please mention the years in which he shifted his work to other departments.
  • The sentence sounds bad - two "works"
  • "prakash" - it should be capital, a name.
  • The poetry is in which language?

RRD13 (talk) 06:35, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

-Done updated info, poetry was in English Shrikanthv (talk) 07:49, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Calcutta[edit]

  • In the previous sections' headers' we have the dates. Why not in this case?
  • "repeatedly visited Bengal" - when?
  • How can a person be influenced by his own studies?
  • He helped establish a series of youth clubs. He helped found the Anushilan Samiti of Calcutta in 1902" - make it "He helped establish a series of youth clubs like the Anushilan Samiti of Calcutta in 1902"
  • "Congress" - Congress. (How can a casual leader know it is a political party?)
  • If I am not wrong the Congress meetings were held annually in a city to review the progress made. In 1906, it was held in Calcutta headed by Dadabhai Naoroji. I think it should be mentioned.
  • "hardliners"- isnt it extremists?

RRD13 (talk) 06:36, 24 March 2014 (UTC) Done Merged The sections of Baroda and Calcutta as it seems he was moving between cities during these days , he was was influnced by his ... changed to studies , wording corrected, hardliners changed to extremists and last statment reworded for correct picturisation of the situtaion Shrikanthv (talk) 12:14, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Conversion from politics to spirituality[edit]

  • Why did the trial occur? How was he involved with the bombings? All these needs to be explained.
  • The spelling of CR Das is wrong. Moreover he should be appropriately linked.
  • "Afterwards" - date?
  • "Vivekananda"??? - "Swamiji or Swami Vivekananda"
  • Reword the first sentence of the third paragraph.
  • Again "Brahmananda".
  • "Bande" - "Vande" (B is used by the Bengalis not by Indians)
  • "Chandarnagore" - wrong spelling.

RRD13 (talk) 12:41, 24 March 2014 (UTC) Done- Most of the infor added and dates added, correct city name added and tagged to existing wiki article Shrikanthv (talk) 14:31, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Pondicherry[edit]

  • "philosophical monthly magazine" make it "philosophical magazine published monthly".
  • "A series of work" - are these works articles/ poems or anything else?
  • Why "Sri"? What does it mean?
  • Where did he sign his name?
  • Only one sentence about his death?

RRD13 (talk) 10:45, 25 March 2014 (UTC) Done - changed most of the things added info on Sri and tagged it, did not really find where he first actually signed with sri first time, the authors only mention about first usage. expanded death details Shrikanthv (talk) 07:27, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Mirra Richard[edit]

  • Why a level 2 heading?
  • She was of which nationality?
  • In which state is the city located?

RRD13 (talk) 10:55, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Done : removed redundant aurovilla details as it was created much later by the mother and compressed the information on ashram and the mother on same para, its a union terretory so I am unable to mention it as a seperate state and city Shrikanthv (talk) 07:48, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Philosophy and spiritual vision[edit]

  • Who is Peter Heehs?
  • The Life Divine section is uncited.
  • "Man is born an ignorant" - why capital m? It should be "man is born as an ignorant...."
  • Are the 3 points said by him?
  • There is problem with the 29 reference.
  • Savitri should be included in this section only.

RRD13 (talk) 09:12, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Done: all done! RRD13 Shrikanthv (talk)

Rest[edit]

  • In all places where any person has been named like "Abc did.." make it "(Historian) Abc....."
  • Is there any need for a section of quotations?
  • Include Savitri section in Literary works.

RRD13 (talk) 09:16, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Done : Done!RRD13Shrikanthv (talk) 09:39, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Sourcing[edit]

We should not be using sources published by an advocacy group much at all in this article. Alas, we seem to be using them a lot. Such groups/publishers are not generally reliable. - Sitush (talk) 16:12, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

We also seem to have a massive WP:CITEVAR problem. Has all this come in since the GA review or what? - Sitush (talk) 16:14, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
The lead seems overcited to me. I'm not even convinced that any citations are needed at all there. See WP:LEAD. - Sitush (talk) 10:57, 2 April 2014 (UTC)


will have a look, regarding lead sitush , i was having an edit war when they started added information like , Bangali Brahmin...etc. , so had to really cite much of lead section to be currently what it is Shrikanthv (talk) 07:05, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Distances[edit]

Something does not feel quite right in the paragraph containing "In 1879, his father took Sri Aurobindo and his two elder brothers to Manchester, England for a European education. The brothers were placed in the care of the Reverend W.H. Drewett and his wife, in London ..." Manchester is > 200 miles away from London and back then the commute by railway would have taken up the entire working day. It seems unlikely that they were taught by and lived with the Drewetts and simultaneously were studying at Manchester. It is probably a phrasing issue but it is confusing and needs to be resolved. - Sitush (talk) 11:03, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Changed was not noticed before , updated correct information Shrikanthv (talk) 07:22, 3 April 2014 (UTC)


Section blanking[edit]

I have removed this section out of the article, think it does not belong to the biography page, and may be spams from organizations claiming lot of things, the insitution like ashram has already been stated. Do discuss if this is necessary here

Organisations and institutes[edit]

  • Sri Aurobindo International Centre of Education, an integral part of the Ashram, serves as a field of experiment and research in education. For years Sri Aurobindo considered forming an Education Centre to prepare future humanity to manifest upon earth a divine consciousness and a divine life. To give a concrete shape to his vision, the Mother opened a school for children on 2 December 1943. In 1951, a Convention at Pondicherry resolved to establish an International University Centre in the town as a fitting memorial to Sri Aurobindo. Accordingly, the Sri Aurobindo International University Centre was inaugurated by the Mother on 6 January 1952. In 1959, the Mother renamed it "Sri Aurobindo International Centre of Education".[1]
  • Sri Aurobindo Centre for Advanced Research, located in Pondicherry, India, provides online advanced degree programmes (e.g., MA, M.Phil., and PhD) in Sri Aurobindo Studies. It works in collaboration with Indira Gandhi National Open University which grants the degrees. It also publishes books related to the thought and vision of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother, holds conferences, and sells CDs of talks by Ananda Reddy, its Director, on Sri Aurobindo's various major works.[2]
  • The Integral Life Foundation in Waterford, CT has published several books by Amal Kiran.[3]
  • Sri Aurobindo Society, founded by the Mother in 1960 (with her as its Executive President), is an international not-for-profit NGO, working for individual perfection, social transformation and human unity. It strives to bring change, empowerment, deeper values and excellence in various fields, including education, village development, sustainable development & renewable energy, health, management, youth, women, Indian culture, and media, films and television programmes, based on a spiritual foundation. The Society has been recognized by the Government of India as a Charitable Organization, a Research Institute, and an Institution of National Importance. The Society’s main administrative office is at Puducherry (formerly Pondicherry), India. It has members, centres and branches in all parts of India and abroad.[4]

Shrikanthv (talk) 05:00, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Article move[edit]

From the above Talk:Sri Aurobindo#WP:HONORIFIC, it seems clear that we should move it from "Sri Aurobindo" to just "Aurobindo" or "Aurobindo Ghosh". Any comments before it is done? -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 08:41, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

I think that the problem might be WP:COMMONNAME - some honorifics are just so common that they default. Any move would also have to consider Ghose rather than Ghosh. - Sitush (talk) 08:48, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, my typo. I think just "Aurobindo" is preferable, this was also the old title. Normal Google web search shows that "Sri" yields some more results but Google Books is the opposite; I think we can give preference to HONORIFIC over COMMONNAME for this case. Also, I was quite surprised at the result of this discussion: Talk:Agnivesh#Requested move. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 09:50, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment: This discussion is not following the formalities set by WP:RM. Just pointing it out. In case its just casual talk, carry on and ignore my comment. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 10:25, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The article should not be moved. "Sri Aurobindo" was the name used to refer to Aurobindo. It is the name that Aurobindo used to refer to himself. It is what he went by.[1]goethean 12:05, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose Like Goethean and Sitush said, it is more about Common name than honorific. Bladesmulti (talk) 12:58, 28 April 2014 (UTC)