Talk:Sri Chinmoy

RickRoss.com

Please let me explain why I removed the link to rickross.com. It has nothing to do with the link being critical.

RickRoss.com hosts articles taken from multiple newspapers and other reports which violate the copyrights of the original publisher. This means that we cannot link to his site, per WP:EL. Not linking to sites violation copyright is a hard rule and such links can't even be included even by consensus. Of course, the original source articles can be used as references to add critical material to the article, though without links to rickross.com, just with a standard citation.

In any case, in general we should not link to polemical anti-cult sites directly, but rather use their sources to include notable criticism in the article. This is especially true when the site is self-published, as Rick Ross's is. Any of his books published by an independent publisher may of course be cited. Yworo (talk) 15:43, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok. --Demetrioscz (talk) 14:45, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

More Info on What Sri Chinmoy Did

This article is quite low on information about activities of Sri Chinmoy. To give one example, there is passing reference to controversy over 7,000lb lift but nothing about other documented lifts and experience of people being lifted. For example, http://www.inspiration-lifts.org/ gives many references which would be worth including in this article.

Since Sri Chinmoy was nominated for Nobel Peace Prize, it would benefit to have more on peace activities, and programs like "Lifting Up the World With a Oneness Heart - http://www.newsweek.com/2007/10/29/are-miracles-real.html. There could be mention of how Sri Chinmoy's writings and poetry have been used by mainstream society e.g. Poetry read at 9/11 memorial http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/42451/ - books like America The Beautiful. Canon2212 (talk)

I added new sections Weightlifting, United Nations with good referenced sources. Poetry section look like copied blurb from a book so rewrote with some references. Tried to make more details about life of Sri Chinmoy. Canon2212 (talk) 15:50, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

White keys of piano

I have inserted into the article the "white keys" refinement concerning piano and pipe organ improvisation style of Sri Chinmoy. Just look at any video record of Chinmoy's improvisation to get an evidence that Chinmoy uses ALWAYS white keys only while playing on piano or pipe organ, or, generally speaking, on any piano similar instrument. http://www.srichinmoy.tv/tv/318. Speaking more exactly, Chinmoy does use sometimes black piano keys but in cases of simplest single-voice melodies. It looks like that Chinmpoy's piano techniques level is somewhere before a beginner level. Do not believe? Just seat at the piano and try! Expressively and rhythmically hit any white keys only, carefully avoiding black ones. If you are able to do it, several hours later humanity will have got one soulful musician more. Have fun! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Agafon005 (talk • contribs) 08:15, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately my "white keys" remark has been undid by User: Bigweeboy as "need a written reference for this". Of course I was looking for written references. And have not found. Why may we not consider numerous video records as the evidence if written evidence not found? --Agafon005 (talk) 09:50, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

White keys - you may be right, but what is the point you are making? I agree that it has been taken away. If you see him playing harmonium (keyboard instrument) you will see that he uses the black keys a lot, more than usual to the western viewer. Vivvvvek (talk) 01:09, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for a good question, Vivvvvek. Where do I begin? Unfortunately I do not know anything about your personal background in theory of music. So, let my explanation is addressed to everybody who reads this “White keys of piano” section, including those who do not have any knowledge in theory of music. I will have to use some musical terms such as Octave, Diatonic scale, Tonality, Sharp (music) and Flat (music).

Let me start.

1. Each octave of the piano is represented by 12 musical notes extracted by its white and black keys. They have following names

C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B.

A piano keyboard covers several octaves, so its black and white keys names are:

A, A#, B, C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B, C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B , B, C ... and so on.

Please, note that each name of black key has the "#" symbol (Sharp (music)) within its name. I could use the Flat (music) symbol instead of the # symbol, but it is not so principally in this explanation. By the way, if we play on white keys of piano we use only seven notes from each octave such as C, D, E, F, G, A, B. If we play on black keys we use the rest of the set - C#, D#, F#, G#, A#.

2. Usually, any particular musical composition (this statement is applicable for classical music, too) does not use all 12 notes from each octave. Very often only a limited set with different 7 notes is used. Why seven? There is no simple explanation. We may consider it as the fact coming from multi century western musical tradition and evolution. For more details you may look into the Diatonic scale article.

Often we can see that white and black keys are used together by a musician within the same composition. But if we are investigating the set of notes used in any composition we see that the number of different notes names is constant and equal seven. It means that some white keys are not used at all within the play if black keys are used. Please, see the Tonality article for details.

What are these seven notes? We may count twelve different sets of these 7 notes. Several sets are represented here:

1. C, D, E, F, G, A, B.

2. C#, D#, E#, F#, G#, A#, B# = C#, D#, F, F#, G#, A#, C

3. C##, D##, E##, F##, G##, A##, B## = D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#

4. an so on

What happens if a musician playing a composition, for example, in tonality (C, D, E, F, G, A, B) is touching occasionally a key not included into this set, for example C# key. It will sound as an obvious mistake of maestro. What happens if some other (outside for this set) keys are touched, for example: C#, D#, F#, G#, A#, too? The composition will not sound as music at all. It will sound as a cacophony. So, this is a significant thing - to stay within selected seven notes set (to stay within selected Tonality).

What happens if a maestro playing a composition in a tonality (C, D, E, F, G, A, B, for example) will touch occasionally any keys from the same set. This case will not be accepted as a rough mistake. It can be considered even as a musical improvisation of maestro. By some people, at least.

I guess it is clear enough that it is very important to stay within the same tonality while playing a musical composition. So, concerning piano, what tonality is the simplest one to stay within? The answer is obvious. This tonality is with C, D, E, F, G, A, B set - the set of all white keys without an exception. So, if somebody expressively and rhythmically will hit different WHITE keys only, carefully avoiding touching black ones, this “musical action” can be considered by some people even as a music, because it does have the most significant attribute of a musical composition - a tonality. That is what maestro Chinmoy is using almost always while playing on piano or piano similar instruments such as a pipe organ and an electronic piano.

Vivvvvek, you are writing "If you see him playing harmonium (keyboard instrument) you will see that he uses the black keys a lot". Here I have to repeat the following. Speaking more exactly, maestro Chinmoy does use sometimes black piano keys but in cases of simplest single-voice melodies. What would be a reason to do it? I guess to adjust the musical support to his vocal range. Why does he use black keys while he is NOT singing? I guess because he has trained himself to use them to support his singing initially , and then there was no significant reason to play it in another tonality. The most easy way is to stay within initial trained variant used in any case - with / without singing, I suppose. --Agafon005 (talk) 18:18, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Nothing that you guys are saying or trying to say, matters, if it has not been said by reliable sources. Please see WP:RS. Using white keys only is like using only a few letters of the alphabet. The music or writing you produce wont be as good as if all the keys or letters were used. But again, our arguments dont matter and cannot be included in the article, unless a reliable source has mentioned it specifically. This is a basic rule that ever editor here should know. --Demetrioscz (talk) 18:04, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Can we have a Neutrality Box up top?

This article reads as though it was written entirely by cheerleaders. I looked in vain for any information that wasn't hagiographical or for any controversy that wasn't explained away or softened. Surely we should at least have a box up top that says "The neutrality of this article is disputed." Because I hereby dispute it. Even Mother Teresa's Wikipedia article mentions Christopher Hitchens's specific criticisms. This article can't seem to brush past the controversies fast enough. I call foul. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.5.114.120 (talk) 22:43, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

A box like that can only be shown if there are specific issues that have been pointed out on the talk page. If you saw the box template, you would notice it says "see the talk page". --Demetrioscz (talk) 18:06, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Sri Chinmoy smiling.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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